Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater Time to select my projector and screen size

My little HT room is getting close to being done. Well, that’s a relative term seeing how it’s taken my four years to get to where I am now…….I’m figuring three months out before I need to mount a projector on the ceiling.

So now I need to put some serious thought into which projector to buy. I thought I had the screen size figured out, but don’t after all. It’ll be somewhere near 7’ wide. The throw distance will be 13’. The max seating distance from the screen will also be 13’. The ceiling height is 8’3”. The room dimensions are 12’ wide by 15’ 6” deep and it will have pretty good light control. I’m going to build/paint my own screen and already have the paint for the newest version of that home brewed ‘missississippi mud’. If it doesn’t work out, I’ll buy some screen material and build one. Pinning down the right size screen would be very helpful right now and any input to that regards will be appreciated from you guys that have already gone through this.

For projectors, I would like one that does a good job up-converting to at least 720p. I do not have HDTV where I live, so up converting is pretty important to me. I have been looking at and reading up on the Pany 900 and the Sanyo Z4. I’m not real sure if either of these actually up convert the signal? The reviews say that the Sanyo has the edge over the 900 for sharpness, but the Z4 does not convert from i to P all that well. – whatever the hell that means. From what I understand, they just convert from interlaced to progressive????

I’ve spent some time at AVS looking through all the crap there. Can’t say I’ve learned anything. Too much BS to wade through.

Every time I set a budget, I blow it, but this time I actually need to stay within budget. That being said, $2500 would be a real push and hurt like hell. $2000 would hurt a little. Somewhere between $1500 and $2000 would ideal, but I’m willing to feel the pain if there’s something out there worth going to $2500.

Mike, have you checked out Projector Central?

I just got my first projector in Dec. I have the Panny AE900 and could not be more pleased with it. The Picture is great and was a great price. You can get it for well under $2000 plus a $400 rebate and $300 Blockbuster card. I used the Home Depot paint mix called silver screen ($18). I have a 106" screen.

I own a Z2 and love it, "Nickbuol" on this website has a Z3 and loves it, I'd like to go to the Z4 some day as it works great for constant height screen setups using anamorphic lens.

Anyway, I assume your going to go with a standard 16:9 screen to match the ratio of the projectors? A good rule of thumb is that you want to be back 1.3 times the screen width or more, so if you have a 7ft wide screen, your talking at least 9ft or more. The 13ft seating distance will work good.

You also want to make sure your projector from 13ft throw back can achieve the screen you desire by adjust the zoom on the projector. Using the Z4 calculator on projector central's website, you can see that from a 13ft throw distance you can achieve a image for a 7ft wide screen with having the zoom about half way.

As Randy I've got the Z2 and it's a great PJ for the price! I heard great things about the Z4 and I would look into it if I were you. I know you can find it for less than $2,000 in some places.

mdrew,

The $2,000 (or less) Optoma HD72 DLP projector that I saw demo'd at CES in January was amazingly good, almost the equal of the $10,000 HD81 Optoma.

The HD72 has a 720p native resolution. The Pansonic LCD is a very good alternative choice but for me, the best DLP projector images have a little more "punch" and contrast than the LCD models, but LCD has made great strides in the last year or two.

Regards,

That's my big dilemma. I change my mind everyday on whether I'll go with DLP or LCD for my next PJ. They progress made on both sides makes it hard to decide. (Then again I'm not planning on upgrading my projector any time soon... Saving for them Axiom speakers!!)

OK lets make it hard on him,at least we all like Axiom speakers.

I just read a review on the 72 earlier today, after posting this question. It is most definitely on my short list now. It might just the perfect unit for my application as it recommends a throw distance between 11 and 13.5 feet for a 106” screen.

What does ‘native’ resolution mean? Will it up-convert a 480i cable/satellite signal or 480P DVD signal?

And yes, I’ve been surfing protector central quite a bit, that’s where I saw the review. The H72, 900 and Z4 all seam to be neck and neck with their own little pro’s and con’s.

And don’t worry about confusing me; I doubt I can get more confused than I already am. It is very helpful when y’all throw things at me. I can then take them one at a time and do some concentrated studying.

I’m not sure what aspect ratio I should go with. I had assumed that 16.9 was the best way to go.

The native resolution is the resolution at which the PJ will display. LCD and DLP projectors are fixed pixel display devices (not like CRTs). That means that whatever resolution you feed them they will scale it to their native resolution.

Technically if you want to have the crispiest image you would have to feed the PJ its native resolution. Of course HD has more than one resolution so you have to compromise.

Now it's up to you to decide whether the scaler in the PJ is of good quality. Some DVD/Receivers will upscale DVDs better for instance. For my part I like to upscale through a PC (and I'm currently building a HTPC) better than when my Sanyo Z2 upscales (though it's definitely not a bad image!)

I apologize that this is (sort of) OT! Anyway, my (way in the future) plans are to get a projector and screen as well. My question is for those of you that already have this setup, do you use it only for movies or do you also include regular TV viewing? I was thinking a huge screen might be a bit overkill for regular TV viewing since frequent and constant use would be hard on the projector, not to mention having to change out expensive burnt out bulbs.

I know people that use it for both movies, TV, and gaming, and those that just use it for movies. I fall into the movie crowd at the moment. HDTV hasn't made it's way to our household yet, and without it I wouldn't want to watch TV on a screen that big unless it was HD.

I use my pj mostly to watch movies. I've tried it with SD TV and it wasn't worth it. I plan on watching HDTV though as soon as I'm done building my HTPC

My turn to jump in. I went through the Z3 vs. the Panny 700 a year ago. I went with teh Z3 at the time because it had the throw distance that I needed, and Sirquack liked his Z2. Each year, the LCD quality gets even more and more impressive, and the DLP prices get lower and lower (as Alan mentioned). It is really a tough time to pick a projector these days.

If I had the cash, I would probably, dare I say it, go with a nice DLP. But I am not made of money, and I wanted a great sub-$2000 projector too, so I went with the Z3.

Keep this in mind. Whatver you go with of your choices, it will look awesome compared to a 27" TV (not slamming on anyone here with a 27" TV. I look at a 27" TV most of the time myself.)

The Z3 does a good job of upconverting, but let me tell it to you like this. I have a Panny S97 DVD player that can upconvert my DVDs from 480i to 480p, 720p, or 1080i (to name a few). My Z3 can do even more choices than that, but too maxes out at 1080i. I have things set for 720p and it looks every bit as good as 1080i because of the progressive vs. interlaced, but that is another story... Anyway, if the DVD is a great quality transfer, or even a computer animated movie, I like using HDMI and letting my Panny S97 do the upconvertion. I think that it does a "sharper" quality job. If the movie isn't animated, or is a lesser quality transfer (a little grainy), I let the Z3 do it as it gives it, what Sirquack calls (and I agree with) a more "film-like" look.

I hope that this helps.

(Disclaimer, upconversion does NOT actually increase the image resolution, but interpolates the pixels to "fill in" extra pixels to simulate greater resolution. I like it, but wanted to share this due to other forum members' opinions of upconverting.)

Now for SonicFox's question. I use mine for movies/videos only. I don't have a HDTV signal coming into my house, and regular satellite looks good, but isn't worth the hours off of the bulb's life in my opinion.

Interesting and troubling comments here.

I am building this room for sitting down and being entertained for a couple hours every now and then. I have no intentions of having two TV areas. This is it. I’ll be watching the satellite and DVD’s both in this room with the projector. I don’t waste much time sitting on my ass, but when I do, I want great sound and video.

That being said, what will one of these projectors do for standard definition satellite? Running the satiate through my HK 7300 improved the picture quite a bit, and it ‘up-converts’ to 480P. It does this better than my DVD player too (Integra 8.5).

Also, there is an up-conversion and an up-scaling. I think some of you are getting these two terms confused. Hell, I thought I knew the difference, now I’m doubting myself again. Can someone clarify that???

Mike, I'll take a shot at it. All present N.American DVDs and standard definition TV are 480i. If a display device(set or projector)has a "native resolution" of e.g. 720p, then it has to display at 720p to show a full picture, regardless of what the original source material was. The term for changing from interlaced to progressive is "deinterlacing", and "converting" shouldn't be used. The term for mathematically interpolating more pixels(e.g. to get from 480 to 720)to fill the picture is "scaling", and again, "conversion" shouldn't be used. The quality of deinterlacing and scaling may or may not be better in a player or receiver than what a TV set or projector would do itself. In any case, this doesn't really "convert" the lower definition DVD or SDTV into high definition, although if the equipment is good it can look pretty good.

Sonic, I use my projector for DVD's and HDTV broadcasts primarily. Most projectors will go 2,000+ hours before you have to worry about replacing a $200 bulb.

mdrew,

Keep in mind that ALL projection systems in your price range will look better when in a dark room. Are you going to alway watch TV in the dark? What about when entertaining friends?

Just something to think about...

As for standard cable or satellite on a 106" (or abouts) image... If you have digital cable, you should be OK. Regular cable TV will just be too grainy for that size of image. My problem when I hooked up my DISH signal to it was that I didn't have the receiver hooked up to my projector, but instead rerouted the signal over coax through my house, and then through an old VCR (to act as the tuner so I could get to "channel 3" and then to the projector. It was FAR from the ideal source signal of the DISH network. Again, you should be fine with satellite or digital cable if directly connected to your home theater gear.

Sirquack is correct that the bulb will last about 2000 hours (more or less depending on the settings you use on your projector). A bulb for my Z3 will run me about $300-$350 depending on where I get it from. That is down about $100 from where they prices were a year ago.

JohnK,
You are right on the mark. I misused the term "upconversion" based off of previous posts, and just falling into that line of "word usage". Scaling has been around for years. Places like Best Buy, Circuit City, and other "electronics outlets", advertise scaling as "upconversion" because it is a catchy phrase. But again, JohnK is right... It really refers to scaling.

And again, it IS deinterlacing, and not converting to use the absolute correct technical term, yet the act of altering any image IS a convertion of that image, but that is not JohnK's point. Use the right words people! (talking to myself here )

Thanks for all the input guys.

I think if you take the time to look, there really is a "conversion" though. Look at the HK 7300 and 740 product descriptions. They specifically say that they “up-convert” and improve picture quality. Not just scaling. This is where I’m getting baffled.

$300 for a bulb huh? Well that sucks! Gues I’ll be going through about one a year.

$300 annually does suck at first, but then when you think about how awesome the large image is for movies and TV, it will be worth it.

You are right that manufacturers and vendors use the "up-convert" term, but it really is just a new way of saying scaling. JohnK's point is that scaling is the more "correct" term, but for a practical purpose, they mean the same thing, at least for this discussion.

Well first of all you need to keep in mind that companies like to stretch the info to make their products look better so they come up with unprecise terms to describe how they function.
Bottom line is that you can't add information to an image, thus when you upscale you are not increasing the quality of the picture. BUT not all scalers are equal and some do a better job than others. There are also filters that allow you to remove the noise in the picture as well as sharpen edges etc... (that can be done throught a HTPC, or a fancy upscaler). In such a situation the picture quality could therefore improve if the scaler in your TV/PJ sucks.
But that image would not be close to the quality that you would get if the image was already at the native resolution of your TV.

I went through this same question about three months ago and settle on the panny 900. It was either that or the z4... finally went with the panny because of the horrible reviews of z4 on stardard def tv. However, if you will never care then go with the z4... my wife and i have a few fav tv shows and they are cool on the big screen. I have NEVER regretted my purchase though. Can't go wrong with either LCD. If DLP then the Optoma line gets damn good reviews but of course there is the whole rainbow thing...

In reality, since you are a newbie like me then just buy something you feel comfortable with, as they all will blow you away. The best dal out there is probably the infocus 4805 if you are just looking for a movie projector...

How do you think you will use yours most?

Neb

Mike, don't get "baffled" by manufacturer BS. As my reply and those of Nick and Cam point out, whatever they try to call it there's no way that they can actually find definition that doesn't exist in the original source material and "convert" it to real HD, as they sometimes imply by using that term. Of course, players, receivers and TV displays can have varying scaling abilities.

Thanks guys. Got it now. All but the interlaced/progressive thing, but I doubt anyone could make me understand how that works.

That H72 is looking pretty good. I think the race is the H72 in the lead with the Panny second, then the Z4. It would seam by the reviews I’ve read that for my size room and the fact that I don’t have HDTV, the Panny and H72 might be better suited.

So what’s so great about DLP anyway? What’s it do that’s so special?

http://www.projectorcentral.com has a good article that explains the pros/cons of both technologies.