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Re: Comments on this setup
#132282 03/20/06 03:11 AM
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David, if the Denon and Pioneer had their tone controls etc. in neutral positions and the sound levels were matched to within 0.1dB there would be no sound differences. Competent and conscientious audio engineers design their units to amplify transparently when operated within their design limits. The major differences in frequency response that the "warm/bright" fantasies would require simply don't exist. Those who say that the Pioneers are a "little warmer" are uninformed or misinformed.

As to the features, this is what you should carefully study and decide what's most important to you.


-----------------------------------

Enjoy the music, not the equipment.


Re: Comments on this setup
#132283 03/20/06 03:17 PM
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I had the 990/7125 in the house before the 7500/7700 amps were available, and decided to upgrade to the 7500 when it was offered. And I am very glad I did. To my ears, the 7500 made a significant difference with my M80v2's: clearer mid-range (especially vocals) and tighter base. I'm not sure if it's just the additional power or some other improvements that were made to the new generation amps, but I am very happy I have the 7500 powering my M80v2's, VP150 and QS8's for side surrounds. I'm no expert as far as the technical issues with these new amps, but I feel that the M80v2's, even though they are very efficient and will "play" with lesser amounts of power, love the extra "juice." At 4 Ohms the 7500 is feeding them 300 WPC and they really shine. The 7125 does a good job but if you can afford it, I'd go for the 7500.

By the way, the 990 is no slouch either. Realizing of course that I was moving up from an older, first generation Dolby Digital Yamaha receiver at 85 WPC, the level of detail the 990 pulls out of both CD's and DVD's is great. I'm very pleased with the set-up, but remember I moved up from a basic budget system, slightly better than HTIB.

FYI, my room is 16' x 25' with a vaulted ceiling, and I'm using my old Yamaha and a pair of NHT Superones for the rear surrounds for the time being. The system fills the room nicely although I find myself listening to just the M80v2's in stereo for music much of the time if it's a well engineered CD. They sound that good.

Regards.

Re: Comments on this setup
#132284 03/20/06 03:57 PM
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Well said, korkster.

Re: Comments on this setup
#132285 03/20/06 05:25 PM
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....but I feel that the M80v2's, even though they are very efficient and will "play" with lesser amounts of power, love the extra "juice." At 4 Ohms the 7500 is feeding them 300 WPC and they really shine...
______________________________

I apologize for my ignorance but I keep hearing things like 'm80 love the extra juice', or that they 'draw that amp power' and I don't think I understand that. Since they are already so efficient - 95dB/W/m - why do they need that extra power? They are already 3dB louder at the same power than, say, m60.

On that note, 300W into an m80 at the listening distance of 12 feet would result at more than 100 dB sound level. Do you really listen to that loud? I can't comfortably stand more than 80-85dB

Regards,
Gena

Re: Comments on this setup
#132286 03/20/06 05:45 PM
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In my case if I'm listening to 2 channel, I may be in the kitchen about 50ft away and like to really turn up the volume without getting any distortion.


A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kick boxing.
Re: Comments on this setup
#132287 03/20/06 05:59 PM
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It may just be "between my ears", but the 80s sound better with the amp than without. High volume especially, but low too, IMHO.

Bug

Re: Comments on this setup
#132288 03/20/06 06:27 PM
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Again, I'm no expert audiophile, but extra power is not just about loudness. I don't listen to anything exceptionally loud. From my experience which is admitedly limited, and based on my ears and not scientific data, the extra power brings more "depth" and substance and greater detail. A lot of "junk" (both amps and speakers) will play loud.

I remember being a freshman in college when a friend purchased a system with two seperate 250 watt Crown amps., a Crown pre-amp, a pair of KEF speakers and a Dual turntable (remember vinyl) from a high end audio store. We set everything up in his 10' x 10' bedroom in the house trailer he lived in, and listened to "Silk Degrees" by Boz Scaggs (boy am I dating myself with this post) in plain old stereo. It sounded absolutely awesome, and it wasn't about loudness. It was about detail and musicality. Something that scientific data may not always be able to measure.

Like I said, I'm no expert or technician, but I think I have a pretty good ear. To my ears, and maybe it's just psychological although I tend to keep a pretty good perspective on things, the M80's with the 7500 sounded more refined than with the 7125, not necessarily louder. If it was just about loudness, they'll play plenty loud with my 85 WPC Yamaha.

Anyway, just some thoughts.

Regards.

Re: Comments on this setup
#132289 03/20/06 06:38 PM
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I don't think it is just your ears Doug, I have not heard of one M80 owner that has changed to using seperate amps on them say they regret doing so.

Re: Comments on this setup
#132290 03/20/06 06:46 PM
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Well, it just means that may be the 7500 is a better amp than the Yamaha - frequency response, noise level, harmonic distortions, etc. But not because of the extra power. With all the other characteristics being equal, the power just increases the loudness. At the same power level two otherwise equal amplifiers should sound the same.

Re: Comments on this setup
#132291 03/20/06 07:46 PM
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Definitely.


-Dave

M80s VP150 QS8s EP500s
ravenmanor.com/cinema/
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