Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater Amps????

Skip, the 130 watt rating on your 4306 is in fact the "real wattage", as required by law(FTC)for advertising of amplifier power. Except in the highly unlikely circumstance that you're exceeding its limits and the 4306 is now audibly distorting or even shutting down, going to 300-400 watts can make no change at all, since unused headroom is simply that, i.e. unused.

Alan's take on separates
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Thanks everyone for your feedback, I do like to listen loud but have not checked with a meter. My room is not that big so I think the Denon I have might be all I need for now.I do not get any clipping, it sounds very good at the volume I listen to it. Thanks Again!

Unless you're throwing a loud block party, most amps put out enough power to permit listening to music or movies at pretty high volumes. As I've said many times, I have a Kenwood KA9100, rated at 95 wpc (x2), which has power meters. The KA9100 drives a pair of 87db Dahlquist DQM905s (spectacularly good speakers). This is part of my garage system, and I crank it up pretty good so I have tunes by which to wash my car. At almost painful volumes, the meters indicate 0.5-3 watts output. For the most part, unless you drive your solid state amps to clipping, any amp out there is sufficiently powerful to drive our efficient Axioms to earsplitting SPLs.

For those who believe that all solid state amps with similar architecture, output and specs sound the same, all I can say is, not mine.

Now, it isn't price dependent, in my case, even less so, because I buy a lot of used audio equipment.

Now, it takes living with an amp for a bit to discern its peculiar sound qualities. I rate them on the basis of the frequency of golden musical events an amp will put out.

"Golden musical events"? the objectivist/positivists mumble. Yes, wall of sound, soundstaging, air, decay, attack, slam, delicacy, detail, all the subtle qualities which really distinguish one amp from another.

For those who believe that everything they need to know about an amp is to be found in its Underwriters Laboratory tag, or published spec sheet, I know I will hear a chorus of mocking denial. That's fine.

None of my amps match my Antique Sound Labs MG SI 15DT (5wpc in SET mode). Next best is the antique Kenwood KA9100, then, not so easy to pick between the Integra M-504 and the Yamaha M-80s. I had a THX rated Kenwood KMX 1000, I thought it would be great because the old KA 9100 is so good. Hated it. Great specs though for those who think all you need to know about an amp can be found on a piece of paper.

Anyway, since your amp will probably spend most of its time putting out less than 1 watt per channel, if the first watt is no good, who cares how many more like it stand behind it.

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Yes, wall of sound, soundstaging, air, decay, attack, slam, delicacy, detail, all the subtle qualities which really distinguish one amp from another.

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You forgot blatt and bloom.

Yes, blatt is actually one of my favorite tests. No blatt? Out goes the amp.

Yes, Peter, and those listed qualities are so subtle and delicate that all it takes to make them disappear is covering up the nameplate and pricetag.

JohnK, of course, I left out one of my favorite amps, the $20 T-Amp. Big price tag-very imposing name-tag. You can buy a minty Kenwood KA9100 for $250-350 on ebay. Yamaha M-80s for about the same. You may have to pay a few more dollars (US) for the Integra M-504. Are these big ticket items for you? "Name-plates" with too much cachet to handle?

I also left out the Canadian made Anthem PVA 5, which I would have to rate just behind the Kenwood KA9100 in my list.

If you can't hear the difference between amps, perhaps the rest of your system lacks the resolving power for a meaningful test. I know your speakers are good enough. I figure you are so committed to your theory that you wouldn't even put the matter to the test. Anyway, those who know from experience know that your theory is inadequate.

In any case, music is better than theory, the better the amp, the better the music. Price is not necessarily a factor, neither is brand label potency.

You constantly gloss over the meat of JohnK's argument. If you subjected all your own equipment to the type of blind test linked in that Stereophile article -- which uses only human ears as to gatehr data) -- your claims of differences would vaporize, or so the evidence overwhelmingly suggests.

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Anyway, those who know from experience know that your theory is inadequate.

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Let's forget about theories for a second and refer back to the article. Can you explain the results?

I believe Johnk's point isn't that you have a preference for some amps that are less expensive and well known, but that if you were listening to several well-designed amps regardless of price with no clue of which was which, you wouldn't be able to tell the difference. I tend to agree.

However, I have to admit I'm still attracted to the idea that it's possible. If I can be shown any independent testing similar to the Stereo Review article posted by JohnK that shows different results (in the 'how much power do I need' thread, pg 2), I'll be ready and willing to reconsider this issue. Testing in this way, to me, seems to be the only truly objective procedure to help point me toward a conclusion in this highly subjective matter.