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M22's Sub, Receiver, Future Proof? (Long)
#135196 04/10/06 12:48 AM
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LHawes Offline OP
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I have been around a while but have never really had a nice stereo system other than in 1974 when my new KLH complete system arrived for $300.00. I am learning new terms and am just beginning to be able to relate within my mid fi brain.

We now have an Onkyo 6.1 HTIB with an HT-R510 receiver, DVD/CD player purchased from Fryes about 3 years ago.

My wife and I find we just don't watch movies, other than a rare pay per view but we both find surround, irritating and not worth the trouble.

We have also learned that the speakers that came with the HTIB system are also not worth the trouble. So we have upgradeed the mains to M22's and have kept the receiver and the sub with the rest of the speakers probably never to be used again.

We are not audiophiles but I can hear some pretty fine detail, according to an audio freak friend, so as you might have guessed the Subby is a mess, although it fills in pretty nicely, sometimes it will just moan a low tone when it doesn't know what to do.

We don't listen loud and the M22's fill our 15 x 20 x 8 ft/ room just fine (even though that room has been noted as too large for the 22's). The Receiver and speakers are along the 15 ft. wall, we have tile floors with a large throw rug, lots of furniture and a 'good sounding' room according to my buddy.

Also low budget as we value our music but not more than other necesseties.

So first challenge is a new subby and I know that topic doesn't belong in a topic title but would like your feedback on 3 models, remembering we do not listen loud and the system is 100% music.

HSU SFT-1
AV123 X sub
Outlaw LFM -2

Again not looking for earth shake just a musical sub to fill in below the M22's.

The next challenge is a receiver and I found 2 that seem just like what the doctor ordered for our tastes.

The Outlaw RR2150 looks especially nice because it looks SO much like what I grew up with and yeah yeah I know that is NOT the way to spec a receiver but it seems to have the features as well.

Most notably to me is the Sub-Out that many cheaper receivers do not have and the ability to select bass frequencies. It's pretty bare bones but REALLY atrractive to me. Also it look upgradeable in case we change our minds about surround and it wo'nt be a throw away.

The down side is it doesn't apprear to have any AV in's and outs to run the television or the stray DVD through the receiver (hope I used the right terms) and a correction would be very helpful.

http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/rr2150.html

The next receiver is the Rotel RX-1052. looks like it has a bunch of video ins and outs but no bass management from the receiver. I don't really know if that's good or bad but the simple set-up I have here is nice but not tunable with the bass.

http://www.rotel.com/products/specs/rx1052.htm

So I would ideally like a nicely featured inexpensive receiver with bass management and AV in's and outs and a great cheap sub. (Yeah I know who wouldn't) but I really appreciate anyone will to indulge this new poster with a few experieneces and suggestions


EDIT tried to get all the specs but forgot - we listen to mostly smooth jazz, Dave Koz, Basia, Peter White.

Thank You
Larry


Last edited by LHawes; 04/10/06 12:56 AM.
Re: M22's Sub, Receiver, Future Proof? (Long)
#135197 04/10/06 01:59 AM
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I really like the look of the Outlaw, the Outlaw does have one video out Link that could be connected to your DVD, then the run the video from the DVD to the TV.


A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kick boxing.
Re: M22's Sub, Receiver, Future Proof? (Long)
#135198 04/10/06 02:16 AM
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That Outlaw look like just the ticket for your needs and wants. I say go for it!


Re: M22's Sub, Receiver, Future Proof? (Long)
#135199 04/10/06 02:17 AM
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Hi Larry! First, welcome to the board! While I'm not going to be able to help you out much compared to others here, I am wondering why you want to get another receiver. The Onkyo HT-R510 has plenty of power for the M22's, and from the reviews I've read about the system, it's a pretty decent receiver. It's only the speakers that are lacking. What don't you like about the receiver? Plus, IF you ever decide to get back into HT surround, you might not need to upgrade it. Oh...and I guarantee that a full set of Axiom speakers will sound a heck of a lot better than those that came in that HTIB! However, I understand that it takes time and space to set up properly and may not be worth your trouble as you stated.

Another thing I'm confused about is this statement..."The down side is it doesn't apprear to have any AV in's and outs to run the television or the stray DVD through the receiver". If it's only a stereo receiver, it may not have a lot of A/V connections. But, if there are at least a couple of Aux. inputs for audio devices, you certainly can hook up the DVD and TV audio outputs to it. There probably won't be any component video switching if that's what you meant. Personally, I like to run video directly to the TV, but if you don't have a proper remote to change the inputs on the receiver as well as the TV, than it can be a pain sometimes.

Anyway, so you like smooth jazz, huh? I admit I'm not a big fan of the genre in itself except for Keiko Matsui. I'm a *huge* fan of hers! If you don't have any of her albums, I suggest checking her out!


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Re: M22's Sub, Receiver, Future Proof? (Long)
#135200 04/10/06 03:39 AM
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Larry, the Outlaw receiver looks very cool. I especially like the sub out even though it is just a 2ch receiver. Awesome for a "music only" system.

As far as the sub goes, you stated that you don't listen at extreme levels, and that you won't require it to reproduce King Kongs footsteps. I would look at Axiom's EP125. It would seem to fit the bill nicely, and the finish would match with your 22's!



Shawn

Epic 80/600 + M3's + M3 Algonquins + M2 Computer + EP125
I think I'm developing an addiction.
Re: M22's Sub, Receiver, Future Proof? (Long)
#135201 04/10/06 04:57 AM
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Larry, another welcome. Yes, a better sub should probably be your first consideration, and the three in the $200-$300 range that you're mentioned are all highly-regarded and you wouldn't go wrong with any of them. Possibly let price or even appearance be the determining factor.

As to a receiver, I agree with Mary's comments. Onkyo included quite a fine unit in the package and the features are only slightly dated. Unless there's some key feature that you're looking for, it appears to meet your requirements already and there doesn't appear to be a compelling reason to replace it.

Your comment about surround being "irritating" (assumedly on music)is puzzling and might indicate that the level calibration wasn't correct(in addition to the surround speakers not being the greatest). Using DPLII to process two-channel music sources and send the ambience to the surrounds where it belongs should significantly benefit your listening. Of course, using better surrounds, such as Axiom QS4s, would increase the effect and might be a better candidate for the second item to be bought, rather than another receiver.




-----------------------------------

Enjoy the music, not the equipment.


Re: M22's Sub, Receiver, Future Proof? (Long)
#135202 04/10/06 03:33 PM
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LHawes Offline OP
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SO very helpful with your comments and actually replied last night but my post got eaten.

My thinking with the receiever was that is a weak link in the sound chain seeing as how I am wasting 4 channels of sound where a dedicated 2 channel might be cleaner, but perhaps the receiver is not a problem. Haven't heard anything bad and Onkyo seems to be a capable surround receiever in case, like you mention, we decide to venture there again.

Not really sure what puts me off of the surround other than we had wires everywhere speakers hanging everywhere and we don't watch movies. Really hadn't considered it for music but the speakers really sucked with the HTIB and that may be a solution, to slowly purchase a comlpete Axiom system as funds allow.

STILL love the look of the outlaw and may just compulsive buy that thing in a momemt of weakness.

Anyone with expereience with Outlaw in general? Did you check out the Rotel?

I hadn't considered the EP125 as the others seem to be the internet discussion board subs of choice but may consider that especially with the suggestion it would match my exiting M22's - which I love by the way.

Another hearty thanks to everyone and I'll let you know what I decide.

Larry

Re: M22's Sub, Receiver, Future Proof? (Long)
#135203 04/10/06 10:08 PM
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Hi Larry, welcome.

No contradictory opinions from me relative to those already stated.

Your penchant for value has me wondering about the Rotel. It is a FINE unit, but I do not believe that it would necessarily sound demonstrably different or better than other, similarly-rated units. You may want to bump "user interface" up on your list. I have no experience with the Outlaw (I'm sure it's fine), but have doubts that it or the Rotel are worth a significant premium over similar units from other manufacturers like Denon, HK, Onkyo, etc. I'd second JohnK and Sonicfox; I don't know that your current receiver is holding you back all that much right now.

You may be surprised how much difference a good sub makes. Especially given your musical choices - which probably include substantial acoustic bass and synthesized material below 80Hz - you may find that a good sub tightens music up AND gives it an exciting impact.

I think you're on the right track with the subs already mentioned. The SVS PB10 also gets good reviews, but does NOT have speaker-level inputs, so you would need something like the Outlaw receiver. The other thing about subs is the form-factor; JohnK mentioned "looks" as a valid criterion. I would suggest that "size" is also relevant. For instance, you may find that the Outlaw sub is a pretty big, black box and that it does not harmonize with your decor once you consider its dimensions. On the other hand, my PB12-ISD is big enough to serve me well as a corner end-table, provided I take care not to rumble the wrong items off of it.

Finally, don't neglect the setup process. Proper placement of the sub in the room is very important, and has been discussed ad nauseum around here.


bibere usque ad hilaritatem
Re: M22's Sub, Receiver, Future Proof? (Long)
#135204 04/11/06 02:50 AM
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Larry, a few more comments would be that rather than being a weak link, your Onkyo receiver is the strongest link next to your M22s. There's no magic in a "dedicated" two-channel unit and two channels of a a multi-channel receiver are just as audibly clean. Furthermore, there's no good reason to be "wasting" the extra amp channels; as was said, assuming that the speakers are available, two-channel music material can be played with a little more realism when the ambience naturally present(to varying degrees)in two-channel material is extracted from the front channels by processing such as DPLII and sent to the surrounds where it belongs.


-----------------------------------

Enjoy the music, not the equipment.


Re: M22's Sub, Receiver, Future Proof? (Long)
#135205 04/11/06 02:58 AM
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Craig speaks highly about them little Rocket Subs.

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