Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Hearing Things Winnipeg gathering (Tannoy & MonitorAudio & Axiom)

Bruce, Bren , the date for Saturday the 29th, afternoon, in Winnipeg, speaker audition works fine for me. No plans as of yet.
There is a slim chance i could be out of town but until that call comes in, i'm here.

I will have a switcher box of some sort. Either an interesting fast flip, A/B switch but no gain adjustment, or my Russound, as yet unmodified, with a slower A/B switch, but gain controls for equalizing SPL.
I will need to rearrange the media room layout a bit to provide some extra distance for listening, one or perhaps two people at a time, but other than that, there is little left to do but stock the fridge.

I'm REALLY looking forward to hearing these GR60s!!
On a related note, Jordan is coming by this Sunday to hear the M60s+ and would like to join us to hear the Monitor Audios when that comes about as well. I will be sure to tell him on Sunday.

Chess, not being particularly familiar with Manitoba geography, how are you faring with the flood waters we've been hearing about?

Manitoba geography is simple. We live on a flood plain.
Those who complain about floods were not thinking that far ahead when they bought/inherited houses in southern Manitoba.
Our major rivers carry water from the States northward. During spring thaw, if you couple the effects of big rains or heavy snow seasons the rivers can overflow their banks (local and major tributaries). Without any real valleys to speak of, the flat land spreads a barrel of water over every 20 feet like spilling a full tall glass of milk on a very flat table top.
The city of Winnipeg had the foresight so long ago to build a protective floodway that can drain water from the rivers (and incoming water overland) around the city. The city and province together regulate how much, how long the gates are open each season. This allows faster drainage of water in the south and it keeps Winnipeg relatively dry.
The system worked (close call) in the flood of the century in 1997 and most people had small problems with some basement flooding coming up from below. Those south of the floodway lost homes if they were sitting on low ground, however there was alot of anger about the use of the floodway. If the gates had been open more, the drainage would have lowered water levels in the area but the city/province made some decisions and did not open the gates as far as they said they would. This meant that all the sandbagging done for some southern homes did little as the places were lost to water by mere inches in some cases. There is still a lawsuit pending in the courts over the decision that was made and not told to homeowners as they were constructing the sandbag dykes.
All new homes being built in that aftermath had a regulation to be on much higher ground and several people we know re-built their homes another 10-15' up beyond that spec!
The floodway is now being upgraded and expanded.

Incidentally, we live about 200m from the Red River. If it ever does overflow its banks within the city, we would lose our new media room for sure.

Yes, quite an event in '97. I got evacuated from my home in the south end of the city. We have a perimeter highway around the city that was to act as a secondary barrier if the flood waters rose a little higher than the floodway could handle. We were just outside that highway (but within the floodway), about 300 m from one of the main tributaires and had to be evacuated. Fortunately, I was able to stay with a friend for about two weeks. I have since moved "further inland" and don't forsee a risk. At least my out of town insurance covers flood damage and sewer backup.

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Bruce, Bren , the date for Saturday the 29th, afternoon, in Winnipeg, speaker audition works fine for me.

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Perfect. My wife is still looking forward to seeing your home theater room! Now if Bren is good to go then we have ourselves an audition.

I only read the Tech and Water Cooler boards, but thanks for the link, Chess.

I'm in Ste. Anne's that day, but you guys can giv'er. Going into the busy season here now, so I don't want to keep being the spoiler here.

Bren R.

In Ste Anne's?
We almost bought a house there last year.

So in your absence, all you have to do, before you go out to Ste Anne's, is drop off your M3s and Hsu sub....

Anyone want to swing by and pick me up?

Please?

Well St Pat, if you cabbed it and took hwy 75 all the way up from North Dakota...no waitaminute, that highway is under water at the moment.
You may have to come in through Regina way.
Ouch.

Darn it.

Cab it up to Regina and we can make a road trip of it out to Winnipeg. Make sure to pick up a Roughriders jersey while you're here, they'll appreciate it very much in the peg.

I think with the amount I'd spend on a cab, I'd be able to purchase my own speakers for a comparison.

It does sound like a very nice GTG with a chance to listen to some excellent speakers. I own the mini version of the MA GR60s (GR10) and the medium (?) version of the M60s {M40), but haven't heard any Tannoys.

Lest I forget, it would also be a chance to meet some forum members. Speaking of which, I hope Axiom offers another BBQ/GTG. I'll start saving my money for the plane ticket!

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Make sure to pick up a Roughriders jersey while you're here, they'll appreciate it very much in the peg.

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Hey, I've got a Riders hat... did some consulting work for them before last season. They've got a much better front office than we do here.

I sure really put that in the back window of my car, piss a few people off.

Bren R.

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In Ste Anne's? We almost bought a house there last year.

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Yeah, friends of ours are the chiropractor there. Kind of a get together and "while you're here, we want to insulate our crawlspace" thing.

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So in your absence, all you have to do, before you go out to Ste Anne's, is drop off your M3s and Hsu sub

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(radio edit)

Bren R.

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I own the mini version of the MA GR60s (GR10) and the medium (?) version of the M60s {M40), but haven't heard any Tannoys.

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Well i can't speak for the differences in the GR series, but i have A/B'd the M40s with the M60s. There was no comparison IMO. Although the M40s made for a good price point for a floorstanding speaker, the M60 had distinctly more clarity and resolution. That seperate midrange driver makes a world of difference.
I will be curious to hear what others have to say about the Axiom and Tannoy comparison.

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Lest I forget, it would also be a chance to meet some forum members. Speaking of which, I hope Axiom offers another BBQ/GTG. I'll start saving my money for the plane ticket!

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The next time we head back down to our favorite spa, we would like to plan another Axiom tour of the new sections. This time i will write down my questions before i go and pay more attention to my camera settings.

And here I thought that two weeks would be plenty of time to arrange schedules .

I am usually flexible for Saturdays. My preference would be to wait until we can get everyone together as one of my objectives was to be able to listen to the M3ti speakers. I know I could always pop over to Bren's place some other time but if it means putting it off for one more week, that would be acceptable to me.

As far as I can tell, the long term forecast is calling for rain on that Saturday . Not ideal speaker transporting weather.

What do you think Chesseroo? Just go ahead or wait? And that being said, would even the following week be open for Bren?

I recently spent some time looking over the Tannoy web sight. Damn they have some speakers!! I’m particularly interested in the line with the electronics. Their funky driver configuration is quite amazing if it actually works. Just out of curiosity Chess, what do the Tannoy lines run?? They look mighty spendy.

Too bad you’re so far away. I’d be tempted to box up the Opus 2’s and throw them in the mix.

The following week (Saturday May 6th) might work for me. There is a street wide garage sale on that day though so parking might be a bit fudgy depending on how many people come by. Considering our area of town though, we might see a fair bit of traffic. We are going to try and toss our fridge into the sale (the only item we have) so we could get ppl coming by our place as well.
Secondly, that Saturday is also the day of the wine festival. My wife and i have tickets. The event doesn't start until 7 but we would need to eat early.
If auditioning in the early afternoon, things would still work time wise.

I'll let Bren weigh in on things before we decide, but i'm good to go either way. With only an M3 to disconnect, Bren can travel wherever quite easily. If he brings that Hsu sub to pair against our EP350 though....
Oh what fun.

mdrew,
The only Wharfedale speakers i heard were at an audio shop about 4 years ago just before i went searching for speakers seriously. I don't recall the model but they sounded very overdone, bassy, heavy and not what i was looking for.
I know for sure they were not the Opus 2s. They were not that expensive.

Tannoy sells a wide range of priced speakers. Unfortunately it seems they've really gone from hard core selling their dual concentric drivers (rather unique and well refined) to making more standard speaker and generic HT audio for the masses stuff. I own a pair of the Revolutions. They are not that exciting.
The Definition line was one of the last models they made that fell into a price range for the "not too expensive" elite category. The small D300 was about $2500 for the pair Cdn, new. The D500s went for $4k new, retail and my D700s for about $6k Cdn. I got mine used at $4k after shipping from the States! At 90lbs a piece, 180 lbs of speaker travelling over 2000 km can cost a small bundle but otherwise the price was about 50% of new. The lesser models, similar drivers, called the Saturn models are also no longer being sold. Those paired nicely against the Axioms in A/B trials, but they did not have the build quality and were more costly yet NOT wrapped in wood veneer!
The Tannoy Prestige and Kingdom lineups still have the age old Tannoy design and models and those are rather pricey. I love the sound though, but do not find they have the clear resolution of a speaker with a dedicated midrange driver.
Damn big units.

From what I’ve heard, the Opus line is quite a bit different from the other lines. All the drivers are made out of different materials as well as the cabinet and crossover. Plus the mid range is a 3” dome. Their tweeters reach quite a bit higher as well. I’m happy with them, but it would be cool to get different opinions just to see where my opinion lands in comparison to folks who actually know what the hell to listen for.

If you guys need a set of M3’s and Bren can’t make it, I have a set in Boston Cherry collecting dust that you’re welcome to use. Shipping costs back and forth may be pretty high though. International air can get expensive. I was going to use them for surround backs, but I’m probably going to get another set of QS-8’s for that as the M3’s don’t fit very well where I have to mount them.

Thanks for the Tannoy info.

A pair of M3s gathering dust?
I hear an Audiogon auction coming on.

Naw....I'll put them somewhere. I have a lot of rooms. Just means I need a few more to go with them, and another sub of cource. - it never ends....

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The following week (Saturday May 6th) might work for me. ...

...that Saturday is also the day of the wine festival. My wife and i have tickets. The event doesn't start until 7 but we would need to eat early.
If auditioning in the early afternoon, things would still work time wise.

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That sounds fine. Since my wife will be there and our six month old will need to be getting back. I am tempted to pick a date to pre-deliver the Monitor Audio speakers in order to save on setup time.

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I'll let Bren weigh in on things before we decide, but i'm good to go either way. With only an M3 to disconnect, Bren can travel wherever quite easily. If he brings that Hsu sub to pair against our EP350 though....
Oh what fun.

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If he brought the HSU, I may have to consider bringing the Mirage BPS-S210 (between the EP350 and EP500 with twin 10" drivers and a 250W amp {500W peak} and 18Hz to 100Hz freq response) but at 100 lbs it is a bit of a beast to carry around (also paranoid at damaging the piano gloss finish - replacement panels are about the cost of buying an EP125).

Also it would ideally need to be setup with the Mirage LFX-3 crossover to dial the sub into the room characteristics. (a SPL meter would likely be required). I think that comparison would be best left for another day. Supposedly the BPS-S210 is Mirage's best sub in terms of sound quality (even though discontinued - market wanted more power for subs not SQ - it is still the best they have ever made).

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That sounds fine. Since my wife will be there and our six month old will need to be getting back. I am tempted to pick a date to pre-deliver the Monitor Audio speakers in order to save on setup time.

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That's fine.
See PM.

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If he brought the HSU, I may have to consider bringing the Mirage BPS-S210 (between the EP350 and EP500 with twin 10" drivers and a 250W amp {500W peak} and 18Hz to 100Hz freq response) but at 100 lbs it is a bit of a beast to carry around (also paranoid at damaging the piano gloss finish - replacement panels are about the cost of buying an EP125).

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Yes, the problem with SW auditions is that many are heavy.
We did a comparison of the SVS PC16-46 awhile back. Although not too heavy, it certainly was awkward for its shape and height. They really do look like water heaters.

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Also it would ideally need to be setup with the Mirage LFX-3 crossover to dial the sub into the room characteristics. (a SPL meter would likely be required).

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I guess it depends on how you want to test b/w subs. Place them all in the same area as close as possible and room responses should be the same. Using the SPL meter is of course prudent, but in our last audtion with the SVS, it didn't change how easily you could pick between the two.

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I think that comparison would be best left for another day.

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Yes. There are enough speakers to hear for one afternoon even if Bren cannot show.

Greetings,

Let me know when you decide on a date and I'll let you know if I can make it. Please don't worry about working around my schedule - If I can make it, great, if not, no big deal.

I am, however, curious to hear the Monitor Audio golds. I spent some time with the Bronze B6's yesterday as well as the AE Aegis Evo 3's and Paradigm Monitor 9's. I enjoyed the Evo 3's and the B6's for differnent types of music but the Evo 3's edged out the B6's overall. The M60's were better than any of the above and are still the front-runners in my book.

Cheers,

Jordan

I think we are still set on Saturday, May 6th.

Glad to hear you've gone around to hear some other speakers and i say it was a pleasure to have you here (hopefully i didn't keep you too long...). The long research process will provide you with a best informed selection by the time you're done. I think that adds to the appreciation of one's components once that process is complete and helps build the anticipation when they are on order.

So far May 6th looks good for me - unless the cabin is calling that weekend.

I hope to listen to a few others but so far the M60 is well in the lead. It was funny yesterday actually because the one salesman described my test CD as one of the best that he has ever heard a customer bring it - mostly because it ran the full gamut of genres at breakneck speed.

I was very pleased with the service at Creative Audio for those of you in Winnipeg interested in checking them out.

Not sure that I will need more anticipation since I will likely go through the factory outlet:)

Ok then, see you on the 6th possibly.

Cheers,

Jordan

May 6th it shall be. I am getting my truck back today so I will be able to transport the GR60s over at some point prior to the listening date. Have not heard from Bren so perhaps he is opting out. I will likely have to set aside some time to go over to his place for a listen.

Personally, I'm looking forward to hearing how it turns out! We all want a full report!

With photos.

Yes yes Tom.
I shall indeed take photos and provide the standard eight page review...in colour.

This is one auditioning test i am really looking forward to doing.

I think I am out. I was just kind of interested in the "hey, what does an M60 sound like compared to an M3?" "I dunno, let's check them out, I'm kind of curious too" thing that this started out as... but now that it's become a big, stuffy "speaker shootout" that I'll be expected to give my dissertation on, I'm less interested. If I'm going to have to write, present and defend a thesis, I want a PhD after I'm done.

Offer still stands for anyone that wants to come over, have a low-key listen, a beer and a burger though.

Bren R.

I'm still up for a listen. But, hey, you wouldn't even have to put pen to paper. Just show up.

Eventually I would like to install W3s in my living room and supposedly they sound very much like the M3s so it is still important for me to have a listen.

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I shall indeed take photos and provide the standard eight page review...in colour.

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Ok but no closeups of the GR60s. While they still work great, they were "bruised" by FedEx.

Bren, you sound like we'll be critiquing your every move.
Hmm, any maybe i will....

There's nothing serious about how one can listen to these speakers. Personally i would like to hear the GR60s and the Tannoys with a switcher as i know the differences might be quite subtle. I've already heard the Tannoys and the M60s this way and although i could tell them apart, i incorrectly guessed which was the M60 each time. If you're interested in listening this way, or not, it's up to you. I don't have any guns in the house to hold to your head, nothing but a water pistol anyway.

I was thinking you could compare those M3s with my office Tannoys, the Revolution 1s which are likely a bit smaller, but a decent bookshelf quality at least, if you were looking to hear how they sound against another good brand. If we only had some M22s here...but perhaps i can just setup the crossover on the receiver to limit the M60s bass and that might come closer to the tone.

As for the dissertation, been there, done that. A page review of speakers for those interested is a cake walk in comparison. I write about 80% of my living most days so just leave that to me. You just take care of the witty retorts and all will be well.



PS We don't have a bbq yet (threw out the old one before we moved), but beer is always on hand here. Perhaps some nachos and salsa would suffice.

I would like to hear that Hsu sub at some point too.
If he doesn't come by, we'll storm his house one late night and plunk ourselves in his basement playing U571 at 90% volume with a dual hook up to his Hsu and my EP350 until he decides to join us.

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While they still work great, they were "bruised" by FedEx

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I'm sure they have a good side to them somewhere no?

Yeah yeah, witty retorts!! C'mon, Bren.

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I'm sure they have a good side to them somewhere no?

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Looking stright on they appear ok. One is worse than the other (thanks to Creative Audio's lack of attention repacking the speaker after they did a third-party audit for FedEx on the condition of the speakers after the first rough handling). One speaker got shipped back to the seller and they ended up sending it back to me.

At least they work.

What time was all this supposed to be going down? I have a chunk o' free time between about 7:30 and 9:30pm?

Bren R.

If the host and my wife is ok with that time, that should be fine as well. We were thinking in the afternoon. Also, I was planning on pre-delivering the GR-60s so that the setup time could be done and out of the way. Chess would get his review done before we would even show up so it could be more of a quick listen for you.

I know that my wife also wants to see the home theater setup. She really wants to have a french door on the entrance to our room when it is complete. She really liked Chess's pictures of his finished basement.

Don't change up anything on my behalf... just figured if that worked, I could pop in for a bit.

Was just reminded I was supposed to drop Lisa and her cousin off at the wine show and pick them up after... which is why I've got that block of time free.

Bren R.

Well then Bren, it appears i may run into Lisa since we will also be attending the wine festival Saturday evening between 7 and 10pm.

After all this time having seen and heard the M80s, 60s, 22s and 40s, I would also like to hear the M3, but if you cannot make it Saturday afternoon, perhaps i can come by your place with an M60 in tow at a later date when Bruce is also available.

I think you will really enjoy the sound of the M60.

The GR60s are now officially in the house.
The three way auditions will begin tonight.

Axiom M60s
Monitor Audio GR60s
Tannoy Definition D700s

Instantaneous switching, A/B blind listening tests.

(pics to come)

While you're trusting your ears, don't forget to laugh at the folks who claim to know it all.

Got it Peter.
Sound advice (pun not intended).

Wish you were here. I'm planning on cracking open a bottle of something tomorrow. It might be beer.

Your brother and I are still waiting for your visit.

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Your brother and I are still waiting for your visit.

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Yes i know.
You should hear my brother go on and on. You would think Canada is harbouring the plague or something. Why can't anyone come visit Winnipeg?
Our neighbors have a boat, no worries about the floods.

Woohoo.
My media room looks like some kind of snobby audio store. I have cables, amps and speakers all crowded into every cranny they can fit. Now if i just hang some sales signs but w/o the prices, it would be a beautiful showroom.

Bruce, Bruce, where are you?
These Monitor Audio speakers won't get any warmer.

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While you're trusting your ears, don't forget to laugh at the folks who claim to know it all.

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Lol... I luv it...

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My media room looks like some kind of snobby audio store. I have cables, amps and speakers all crowded into every cranny they can fit. Now if i just hang some sales signs but w/o the prices, it would be a beautiful showroom.

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I'll second that.

First off, a special thanks to Chesseroo's wife for putting up with this whole parade as most wives roll their eyes at this sort of thing. (Chess has got himself a keeper!)


Lots of speakers and finally had a chance to audition the Epic 60 surround system with "Ice Age". A seamless soundstage and DVD-A with Seal was very detailed.

I wish I had more time to listen but as with everyone's schedules and the day chosen, the audition/comparison was about two hours.

For home theater I would have no problem recommending or even ordering a set of Axioms. In discussing the different audio settings with Chess, it was clear that the type of mixing/eq'ing done by different surround settings as well as how differently each recording is mixed is made very apparent with these speakers (Axiom and Monitor Audio).

For the brief M60 and GR60 comparison, it was rather interesting. The speaker switching setup was vey well done by Chess. It was unfortunate not to have a stereo switching setup but it worked well nonetheless.

I now understand how and why people describe the Axiom sound as being "forward". To me the speaker seems to have more midrange presence. In comparing the sound I felt with the GR60 as if you were listening to a live perfromance and the Axiom sounded as if you were listening to a live performance in the studio. Both were great sounding but different. I would NOT describe the Axioms as "harsh" or "bright". Bright is a term I use for over-emphasized highs with bad tweeter design.

The Monitor Audio tweeter is defintiely in a different class than the Axiom but you would have to expect this for a speaker pair costing $3,000-$4,000 more (price variance depending on where you purchase the MAs). It should be noted that the Silver and Bronze series offerings from Monitor Audio use a different tweeter. I would say that the Axiom compares somewhere between the Bronze and Silver series but perhaps closer to the Silver (still more expensive than Axiom). There was less siblance from the GR60. Not a huge difference but noticeable. The GR60 tweeter is smoother.

The bass in the GR60 extends deeper. I would say, perhaps, it may be better to compare the bass to the M80s but again this difference is subtle. The M60s defiinitely hold their own. If using a quality subwoofer, dialed in correctly for music, I'd say the point is mute. The real differences lie in the mids and tweeters.

I'd say there is something to the phase plug midrange that Monitor Audio uses. Again I found the mids on the GR60 to be slightly smoother and a little more "laid back". It is difficult to describe but the mids on the M60 were a tiny bit more "squawky" (the extreme example to define squawky would be like a megaphone which is mostly midrange and this is just my impression in comparison to the GR60s with a half hour side by side comparison - hardly fair). Don't get me wrong, this is simply different to what most people are used to listening to. In the past most speakers subdued the midrange; people were used to setting their eq's with a smiley face. This is what a lot of people wanted in sound and for the mass market, this is how manufacturers made their speakers. Heck, even Paradigm, an excellent manufacturer had designed a bass hump in their spekers becasue people typically like "pronounced" bass during their playback. I digress. The bottom line is that I found the midrange on the Axiom to be smooth but slightly more than what I was used to hearing from my former Mirage M3si and the Monitor Audio GR60s. It may not be for everyone but it is still a great sound.

Had I found the Axioms prior to the Monitor Audio, would I have been happy with the sound? I would say yes. The side-by-side comparison was a clear example of the law of dimishing returns. To my ears (and the wife thinks I'm half deaf since I only answer half the time when she calls) the Monitor Audios had smoother mids and highs, but $4000 better?! Not for your average listener. If you have money to burn, you can buy the MA's Gold Reference offerings (Consider also that in this price range it opens the doors to many other speakers. The original owner of the MAs replaced them with Jamo speakers).

For the average joe who wants great sounding speakers or the budget audiophile who wants value for money I really like the Axioms. I think my wife preferred the Axioms to the Monitor Audio. She likes the "forward" sound but then again, I don't take her opinion too seriously since she finds listening to a transistor radio good enough {ducking as a cusion comes flying at my head}. My preference is towards the MAs. This was the first time I had a chance to really listen to the GR60s and fed with quality components. I had not hooked them up since I obtained them (how's that for patience!).

In meeting Chess I have every confidence that he has a good head on his shoulders when it comes to audio and what to listen for in comparing speakers. I'm sure he can also give some impressions from his friends that have a chance to audition them side by side.

His review may be more credible considering he will have a lot more time to compare them. I think I will leave them with him for a week to formulate the best impression possible. Plus, I never had a chance to listen to the Tannoys so he will have to fill us in on the overall comparison. Bren, you still have time to stop by for a listen...no opinions necessary.

Nice write-up, Bruce. In all honesty, I think the difference between the MA Silver and Golds is less than the price indicates. Both offer excellent sound, though. Too bad you didn't get a chance to hear the Tannoys.

Chess... hoping you cabbed home from the Wine Show... the number of drunken lugans driving around there was astounding. Lost my cool for the first time in a long time.

Bruce - glad to see you enjoy what you own and concede that you can hear what others hear in their choice, that's what it's all about, no?

Bren R.

Yes, very true. However I still believe that having found Axiom before purchasing the MAs that I would have bought an entire Axiom surround setup for what was paid for the MAs.

The next step is while I have the MAs for fronts, I will get the QS8s for surrounds and likely the VP150 for the center (unless before the time I purchase I come across an "inexpensive" used MA Gold LCR).

It is strange but I would also say that depending on the mix, I may prefer the Axiom sound to the Monitor Audio sound. For the price, it really is a wonderful speaker.

Bruce, you may want to start checking around for better pricing on the MA center channel. With Monitor coming out with newer versions many places are discounting the older models.

I have been doing some research into the Monitor Audios and from some other people’s descriptions it appears that the midrange may be purposefully “dialed back” which is why the Axioms sound more “forward”. In reality, I believe the Axioms may be portraying the "real" sound and the Monitors portraying a slightly tweaked midrange to provide their interpretation of what sound people want to hear (what people are used to hearing from speakers). I found a frequency graph of the GR10 (same midrange as GR60) that shows a dip around the 4 to 5 kHz range.



Looking at the Axiom M22Ti (can not find a curve for the M60Ti) we see the following:



I realize the M22 has two mids versus the M60’s one but it should get the point across. When listening at Chess's place, there was a live recording of Eric Clapton in which some whistling was recorded. On the Axioms the whistling was "in your face" so to speak and irritating. On the Monitors it was subdued and did not get on your nerves. If I think about being in a stadium or a venue with live music and people around me whistling, the sound is typically "in your face" and sometimes quite annoying (I notice the dirty looks I get when I whistle like my grandpa taught me - he whistled loudly for the cattle to come in from the fields).

I believe the Monitors are tweaked to make this midrange (to what we are most sensitive) "more listenable" which may be perceived as sounding better. Thus, the Axioms can be regarded as being more accurate in portraying the sound, although the Monitor midrange is slightly more refined (law of diminishing returns). For a properly done recording, the Axioms really shine (as I mentioned with the Seal demo). And to reiterate, the hometheater demo was seamless and was everything I would want in home theater audio. I tend to like the home theater sound to be more forward...or shall I say accurate .

Bruce, if you examine the graph(on-axis only)which Axiom shows for the M60, it can be noted that it's indeed almost identical to the M22 in that upper midrange/lower treble area.

Bruce,
Although i have yet to put forth any further comments on the speaker auditions, i have to disagree with some points.

The MA speakers are forward, but the upper end (lower tweeter frequencies) are smoothly reproduced. Something in the M60 or with its tweeter is causing an unpleasant resonance during that whistling passage and this is why i call the Axioms "bright". I reserve the word harsh for a speaker that consistently and constantly produces this effect but the M60s do not (source dependant). This whistling is a frequency in the very high end of midrange and in the lower end of the upper spectrum (a human whistle tends to fall in the 1kHz to 3kHz area). To say that the MA or the Tannoys do not reproduce that whistling realistically or equally as annoying would be a fallacy. I have yet to hear a person's whistle that actually makes me wince like when the sound is reproduced by my M60s. Having heard this passage on several other well made speakers, i doubt it is the linearity of Axioms and the assumed 'lack' of linearity of other speakers that is causing this effect.

Secondly, the graph of the GR10 cannot be compared to the GR60.
There will be similarities but conclusions about the GR60 performance cannot be made from the GR10 graphs.
Note the differences between the M80s, M60s and M22s in an overlaid graph. (M80s are the top line, M60s the middle line and M22s the bottom line).
If the scale up to 50Hz was removed increasing the amplitude of this chart it would make the differences alot more easy to read but we'll got with this.

There are many things one can pick out of this graph to see how these 3 speakers, with the same components and build design can still vary in some areas signficantly to make a difference noticeable to the ear.
M80s play louder. Well according to the charts that is true as noted by the higher SPL for the M80 UNTIL you reach the 3.5-5kHz range where the SPL narrows to a value for all 3 speakers that is probably indistinguishable by the ear. So the M80s play a louder range than M60s and M22s but not equally across the whole spectrum.

M80s have more bass. I think the hump between 150 and 200Hz may have something to do with that.

I digress. Back to the idea at hand. If you try to view specifically the M60 and the M22 at 2.5-3kHz you will see nearly a difference of 4dB in 2 peaks with the M60 while the M22 remains more linear, pehaps with a slight dip. Since these spikes come into the range for human whistling, have we potentially found the culprit spectrum for our harsh whistle sound from the M60? Perhaps using the M22 and M60 in a comparison of this could resolve the hypothesis.

In any event, the point remains, without proper graphs for the GR60s or the Tannoys, or having talked with their engineers, we cannot say what has or has not been done in tweaking the sound of these brands and models and we cannot draw conclusions on their actual linearity. Personally i feel the tweeters from the Tannoy and the MA GR60s are very articulate (more so than the M60s, easily distinguishable while using the switcher) and were very equivalent in their sound reproduction. I had trouble finding any real difference in sound between them (the tweeters that is). Both portrayed a whistling sound that was annoyingly loud and forward (bright) but without making me wince and there is a harmonic reason for it. I'm just doubting that reason is because the M60s are playing the sound more realistically, or more linear.

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the point remains, without proper graphs for the GR60s or the Tannoys, or having talked with their engineers, we cannot say what has or has not been done in tweaking the sound of these brands and models and we cannot draw conclusions on their actual linearity. Personally i feel the tweeters from the Tannoy and the MA GR60s are very articulate (more so than the M60s, easily distinguishable while using the switcher) and were very equivalent in their sound reproduction. I had trouble finding any real difference in sound between them (the tweeters that is). Both portrayed a whistling sound that was annoyingly loud and forward (bright) but without making me wince and there is a harmonic reason for it.

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You are likely correct. I was grasping at straws as I just can not seem to find a response graph for the GR60s anywhere.

Oh well. We do like the Monitor Audio's sound and that to me is what counts. As stated in your other thread, some people are willing to pay more for the sound quality and others for the look (my buddy who bought my Mirage M3si speakers, for example).

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I just can not seem to find a response graph for the GR60s anywhere.

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I wish there were graphs for many more speakers. Although the list at that website is reasonable, there are tons of mainstream brands missing. Personally i would love to see some speakers from Bose mapped out.

Maybe if Ian is generous enough i can cart my Tannoys down to Dwight someday for a graph in their swanky new anechoic chamber. I"m dying of curiousity to see what kind of frequency graph produces a sound that i seem to prefer so much. It is likely i would have to keep the graph private though lest i be sued by the company.
Maybe i can get JohnK to defend.
*pondering*

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I wish there were graphs for many more speakers.

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How quickly he comes crawling back to the NRC... "C'mon, baby... I didn't mean those things I said... Chess still loves you baby... just sometimes he gets out of hand and has to hit you..."

Bren R.

Not sure what NRC or unrelated frequency graphs have to do with an earlier review of research of listening panel preferences on sound, but the rest of that post is rather vulgar.
I like the satire, but then there's just bad taste.
The connotations referring to woman beating or that i have some penchant for it has reached a rather low state of approach for humour.