Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Technical Questions Basic Denon Setup Question.

Yes, I understand im losing surround effects. I know that. Its more important to me to have clear dialog though.

I couldnt achieve this with the VP150. By simply bumping up the db level in the center channel it would screw up the harmony of the speakers in the front. Take for example, when something exploded, I would hear it in the center slightly more then in the mains. If I bumped the db level down a bet then I couldnt here dialog clearly. People would always say, "what did they say". I couldnt win no matter what I did. IMO the M60's do a far better job at recreating the human voice then the VP 150 does. If I could use the M60 as a center I would but I have no place to put it.

By the way, the M60's and the EP500 in stereo mode sound far better then regualar movie theater sound anyway. I dont really feel like im losing anything.

Hi New2Axiom,

Excellent thread you prompted and timely, too. You're right to turn off the Denon's Auto-EQ, and leave it off. The auto-level setting for channels is OK, but in virtually all cases the auto-EQ function will do far more harm than good with neutral, well-designed speakers like Axioms.

As to the center-channel dialog issue, here's an excerpt from a feature on "Do's" and "Don'ts" that will appear in the next Axiom Newsletter, due out on Tuesday, April 25th, which addresses this problem:

"Don’t get too fixated on perfectly “calibrating” the level of each channel so they are identical in a 5.1 or 7.1 system. Balancing the relative channel levels is an excellent starting point, but be prepared to make individual channel adjustments until you get a smooth, seamless blend of front channel music and effects, dialog clarity, and surround effects when they’re needed, and just the right amount of subwoofer bass. Note that dialog recording quality may vary quite a lot from one movie to the next, or even from scene to scene in the same movie. Some foreign or independent movies are poorly done, with dialog levels that vary constantly from scene to scene. The regional accents may make matters worse. So don’t be afraid to make center-channel level adjustments while you’re watching if you have trouble hearing the dialog. That’s what the center-channel level control is there for."

The comments about uneven dialog recording in some foreign and independent features were based on some recent experiences of mine and colleagues watching a British movie and an Indian movie, both with English dialog. At times, I bumped up the center-channel level to +8 dB so we could hear the dialog clearly.

Regards,

In reply to:

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One thing that is puzzling to me is that when I set my cable box to output Dolby Digital sound and then set my reciever to stereo mode, I get a signal sent to my subwoofer. BUT, if I set my cable box to HDMI or 2 channel only sound I get no signal sent to my subwoofer. Not sure whats going on with that?

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Just ask yourself - where does the sub source come from... and where is it sent? All about sources and destinations.

For sources, there may or may not be a discrete LFE channel. Stereo sources (CD, most TV channels) don't have them... even if you have your cable box set to DD, sometimes that's Dolby Digital 2.0 (digital, but 2 channel).

And then, what does the receiver do? If it gets a "dot 0" source, it can use an internal crossover to send the low bass to the sub, or just send full range to the mains. If it does receive an LFE channel, it can choose to play it out through the appropriate speaker (the subwoofer) or to reroute it to the mains.

Names of settings and DSP modes change from manufacturer to manufacturer, so there's no clear cut answer.

Bren R.

Well Jay, you actually can have an M60 center(actually two of them)by setting the 886 to no center so that the M60s will then do "phantom" center duty. Of course that means that you wouldn't be using the VP150 at all. Another thing to try temporarily is to set the VP150 vertically on the floor in front of your stand(adjust the 886 for the closer distance)and tilt it back slightly, to see if that improves the center sound any.

Thanks everyone for the help.

Johnk, I just learned of phantom mode today thanks to the always very helpful sirquack. Thats how I have it set now and I really like it that way.

Thanks again.

I just recently hooked up my Denon AVR-885S, the previous model. There's no auto EQ, but there is auto setup. I pretty much left the settings where the Denon put them, but I raised the sub level 3-4db. It did set the the sub distance much further then it's actual physical distance.

The one thing the Denon does with Dolby Digital, and does NOT do to DTS, is apply an automatic "Offset" to the center channel level to account for different mixing levels which could make the center "Hotter" than the other channels. It brings the center level inline with the other channels. When I switch between DD and DTS, the DTS center level is much louder. This could account for the perception that the center seems too quiet. If I hadn't read through the manual I'd have thought the same thing.

So far I am very happy with the AVR-885, which is basically a 2105 clone with a silver face.

Jay, part of your problem might be that your mains are not very far apart, and then you have the center in the middle. My 60's are about 14ft apart for good seperation with the 150 right in the middle. But then, I've got a 130" diagonal 2.35 screen.

I'll never part with my 150, notta.

you may be right sirquack, but if i seperate my mains any further, the right tower would be blocked by the sofa.

im pretty happy with how it sounds now though. thanks again for the help.

if anyone wants a VP150 in perfect condition for cheap, let me know.

against rules.