Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater Component cables over-rated

Spent the weekend trying to get DVD player to work with component cables. Frustrating. The DVD image was black and white with two images on screen. Distorted and unwatchable. Found the manual and it tells me I have to turn off Progressive scan to get player to work with Component cables. Is that a step back to go one forward or what? Granted I don't have the best DVD player or T.V. but the picture was the same with S-video. Returning cables and buying new movies or CDS. More enjoyment out of those.

To me this does not make sense. To view a 480p signal, you need at least Component cables, that is their purpose.

If My T.V. has component hook-up, which it does, it should accept the signal. For some strange reason the Progresive scan has to be off. It is a new DVD player, but maybe an older model? You are right, it doesn't make sense.

The component video should be much sharper than your composite or S-Video, if the progressive scan is off that means you would probably be getting an interlaced signal. I would recheck both the manuals for the TV and DVD concerning component setup.

Randolph, what player is it? It's fairly common that players only output progressive scan through the component outputs(progressive can be output through the other outputs from a technical standpoint), but it would be very unusual if a player didn't use the component outputs for this at all.

You all must think I'm crazy. This is a Sony dvd player model dvp-nc80v. on page 68 of the manual it states
Black level(component out) Selects the black level (set-up Level) for the video signals output from the component video jacks. "You cannot select this when the player outputs progressive signals." I searched the problem of distorted picture on line and saw other people had same problem but had no answer. I asume that if my T.V. has component hook-up that it will accept progressive signal, right? It is only a CRT Sony Wega FD Trinitron, so its not HI-Def. Does that matter? In the T.V. manual it specifies 480i only when using component hook-up. Does that mean my T.V. accepts that signal? Is a progressive signal the same as a component signal?

I think you just told us your problem. If the TV only accepts the interlaced signal, that would explain why when you send it a progressive signal it looks the way it does. This is strange however, I've never known a TV to have Component jacks, and not be capable of receiving a 480p signal, but according to what you just said from the Sony manual, it confirms it will only accept 480i.

It would seem that the statement in the manual that the TV only accepts 480i signals over the component inputs tells you that your TV is not progressive scan. Your problem does not reflect a problem with DVD player or the cables or the TV for that matter. You would need a progressive scan TV to accept a progessive signal.

Component signals and the scan format are not related.

Component video, unlike S-video, carries 3 independent signals containing color and intensity information. It can be delivered either as interlaced or progressive scanning.

It looks like your TV accepts component video but does not accept progressive scan. Even in this case the image quality should be better than through S-video.

To take the full advantage of you DVD player you need, I'm afraid, to get a new TV set

Agreed. I too own a few of these Tvs. They do in fact have component video inputs, BUT, they are not progressive scan inputs. To the best of my knowledge, there are no regular (NTSC) TVs that will accept a progressive scan signal. You would have to purchase a HD set for that.

-Alan

Thanks for the input. The only thing is that the DVD manual states that in order to use the component hook-up, progressive scan needs to be turned off. They don't know what T.V. I have.

FWIW, I'm probably going to get shot for saying this, but in my mind there should be no perceivable difference in quality between an "i" signal and a "p" signal of the same resolution. In other words, turning off progressive scan on your DVD player will cause a 480i signal to be sent to the TV (which it accepts). Turning ON progressive scan on the DVD player will cause the signal to be output as "480p".

My wee brain tells me the ONLY difference between the two has to do with "flicker" and doesn't actually impact picture quality otherwise. If you have ever had a DVD movie sitting on the static intro screen on the normal TV, you probably noticed some flicker to it (not everyone will see it). the "p" eliminates this flicker, but it has never been a problem for me when watching an actual movie (not static image).

So I say keep your component cables (as its a better connection that composite or S video), throw your DVD in interlaced mode, and enjoy the movies. And if your really insistant on getting that "p" mode to work, better start shopping for a new HD TV!

-Alan

A lot depends on the equipment and the scaler used by the dvd player or the built in line doubler of the television/projector.

I can definately tell a difference between 480i to 480p, and also from 480p to 720p or 1080i on my Toshiba 32" or my Sanyo Z2 projector.

An interlaced signal is created by making two passes on the screen. First the odd numbers 1, 3, 5....479 top to bottom. Once this is complete the even numbers 2, 4, ....480. This process takes 1/60th of a second per pass or 1/30th second total time to complete.

The progressive process scans all lines sequentially 1,2,3,....480 in one pass. This process reduces jaggies and other artifacts that come from an interlaced process. In addition all the lines are scanned in 1/60th of a second in one pass.

Anyway, my experience is that there is a difference in 480i versus 480p. Your mileage may vary.

Thanks Firebird. That made sense and now I can put my mind to rest. I'm happy with the picture I have. And the T.V. is new so maybe in 3 to 5 years I'll get an HD TV. Thanks again for posting info that wasn't completely technical.

Randolph, the other replies have pretty much covered the issues, but I'll point out that you've misinterpreted the provisions on p.68 of the player manual that you quoted. That section refers only to setting a different black level, which can't be done on progressive; the manual states(p.18-19)that either progressive or interlaced output can be selected for the component outputs. Since, as was said, your TV isn't progressive scan, you should select interlaced output and can use either S-Video or component connections. Component, in general, should give a slightly better picture, but S-Video(separated video)is a good connection as well.

Thanks John for the information, I thought about taking the time to look up the manual on the internet, but had other things going on.

Sorry Rapmon if you think our responses are technical, when in fact they really aren't.

Alan,
It's not just the flicker, it's also the jaggies. The quality of 480p is much better then 480i. Of course, that is if your TV set can take progressive scan.

Actually, I would say, the step in the quality is higher by going from 480i to 480p than from 480p to 720p.

No problem Randy. I'm new to home theater and until I understand more I just need to learn. I appreciate the info you've given me also.

I knew my reply would stir the pot;

Whether a signal is 480i or 480p the end result is exactly the same resolution: 307,200 pixels (640 x 480). The only difference is how the pixels are drawn. In progressive, each frame is drawn from the top of the screen to the bottom. In interlaced, odd lines are drawn, then it has to go back and fill in the even lines.

Being an avid video gamer, jaggies are caused by low resolution. The high the res, the less noticable the jaggies. "i" vs "p" shouldn't make one iota of difference as the end product is exactly the same-they just take a different path to achieve the end result.

Now when you step up in res (720, 1080) the quality should be a dramatic leap in quality.

-Alan

Alan,

The jaggies are caused not only by the limited resolution but by the motion of the object.

For a static picture you are correct. For a moving object the time delay between the two halves of the frame causes the straight line to break up, hence the jaggies. It is very visible on a large screen monitor.

My 5-6 year old Sony TV is the same way. It's got component jacks, but doesn't accept a progressive signal.