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Outlaw 7125 or 7700?
#140479 06/03/06 03:50 AM
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My HT room is 21ft. x 24 ft. in size (8 ft ceilings - 60" Sony XBR). I am considering the following Axioms...(4) M80's, (1) V150,(2) QS8's and an EP500.

Now, the reason for the post... I know that I will be purchasing the Outlaw 990 pro. The Outlaw 7125 amp (7x125w) is $999 and the Outlaw 7700 (7x200w) is $1999 . I would rather spend the $1,000 difference in amp cost on speakers and subs.

Does anyone currently drive their M80's with the Outlaw 7125? If so, do you wish you would have purchased the 7700? Outlaw's combo packages also include their LFM-1 sub for $400. I would REALLY like to spend the extra $1,000 on the Outlaw sub (in addition to the EP500), possibly another V-150, and furniture.

Any comments would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Steve


Sony 70" XBR, Oppo 980H, Onkyo PRSC885, ATI1807, Rocket 850/450/300/200, Elemental Designs A7S-450x2
Re: Outlaw 7125 or 7700?
saddlesore #140480 06/03/06 04:23 AM
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I've got a 7700 and I like it a lot. Drives the M80v2's just fine. Why skimp and go with the 7125? Though 125 watts from the lower end Outlaw may be enough it is always a good idea to have "headroom". Remember the M80's are 4 ohms and you need something that will drive that cleanly. I assure you that the 7700 does. Also, why 4 M80's? You certainly don't need them for surrounds? Go with the 8's all around. And finally, go with the EP 600, not the 500. Low ceilings yes but quite a volume of room. And the Outlaw sub? again...Why? Seems like for the same money you could get 2 M80's. 4 QS8's, a 150 and a 600 and be far ahead of the game sonically. Do some more research and you'll be happier in the long run.

Re: Outlaw 7125 or 7700?
saddlesore #140481 06/03/06 04:25 AM
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Steve, welcome. The difference in maximum power output between 125 watts and 200 watts is only 2.04 dB. For example, if at a brief peak your M80s could play it at 110dB with 125 watts, it could play it at 112.04 dB with 200 watts, a barely noticeable difference, especially at that level. Also since the output available is higher into the 4 ohm M80s, the numbers would be even a bit higher(190 and 300 watts, with the same difference of about 2db) . So yes, even in your big room the 7125 should be plenty, and the relatively small excess headroom of the 7700 wouldn't likely be used. The money almost certainly would be better spent on the other items that you mentioned.


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Enjoy the music, not the equipment.


Re: Outlaw 7125 or 7700?
JohnK #140482 06/03/06 05:06 AM
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Thanks for the feedback JohnK. The review from Audioholics (4xM80's) had me leaning in this direction. I have spent the last few months auditioning several audio systems. The few HT systems that seemed to "stop me in my tracks" had multiple subs (one to three subs usually at lower volumes but well dispersed and EQ'd via SMS-1 units.) I realize this goes against what most audiophiles recommend... one better sub, instead of two lesser subs. My thinking was that an EP500 is adequate for a room this size while getting almost as respectable reviews as the EP600. And maybe...the Outlaw sub would help widen the bass sweet spot down to 20Hz. That is, the EP500 doesn't go down as far as the EP600, but by tossing in a LFM-1 I might be able to achieve the “wide sweet spot” bass sound that repetitively stops me in my tracks.

In short, I really don’t understand speaker efficiency, how it relates to amp selection, and “headroom”. The tech spec’s on the M80’s look good (95db) and my wallet was “hoping” the 7125 would be a good choice. Unfortunately, I won’t have the option or money to trade the 7125 in for a 7700 in the 30 day trial period if I go with the optional equipment that I mentioned above.


Sony 70" XBR, Oppo 980H, Onkyo PRSC885, ATI1807, Rocket 850/450/300/200, Elemental Designs A7S-450x2
Re: Outlaw 7125 or 7700?
saddlesore #140483 06/03/06 07:19 AM
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Speaker sensitivities are based on how loud the sound would be 1 meter away with an input of 1 watt. For example, the M80s, measured in an anechoic chamber, yielded 91dBs(a quite loud sound)for the 1 watt of input. To get an increase of 3dB in sound level takes twice the power, so if instead of 91dB a speaker had a sensitivity of 88dB, it would need 2 watts to produce the 91dB level. Thus the M80 would need only half the power that the 88dB speaker would need to produce any given sound level and an amplifier only half as powerful to output whatever a brief peak(e.g. 110dB)would need.


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Enjoy the music, not the equipment.


Re: Outlaw 7125 or 7700?
JohnK #140484 06/03/06 11:53 AM
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Now, John, you are neglecting the peak power requirements for "true" music reproduction. Please recall the thread that we had on this board a few months ago where the peak music power was measured with a peak reading voltage meter. As I recall, the peak power was about 24 times the RMS power.

From this and other data, I concluded that you probably need about 200 watts for the fronts and center. Surrounds and rears probably a whole lot less. That's why I have been placing a few EBAY bids on the 3 channel, 200 watt/ channel, Monster amp.


The Rat. M80s, VP-150, QS8s, SVS PC 20-39+, OPPO, Onkyo 703s, Harmony 880 Sony 60" SXRD HDTV
Re: Outlaw 7125 or 7700?
saddlesore #140485 06/03/06 02:31 PM
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Rick


"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud

Re: Outlaw 7125 or 7700?
saddlesore #140486 06/03/06 03:13 PM
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One thing to consider is that you have over 4,000 cubic feet of air, and you will have four M80s to power. Read the article by Alan that Wid posted a link for.

Re: Outlaw 7125 or 7700?
saddlesore #140487 06/03/06 04:45 PM
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Steve,welcome, many of us on the board use amps and are very happy with the results, I guess I'm in the more power is always better group You have a pretty large room and Imho if you are going to drive (4) M80's, while the 7125 would certainly do the job, I think you would be happier with the results from the 7700.


A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kick boxing.
Re: Outlaw 7125 or 7700?
saddlesore #140488 06/03/06 06:06 PM
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Outlaw has the 30 day trial. Get the 7125 with the 990 and run it through the ringer. If you don't get the loudness you desire or the amp gets too hot, then upgrade to the 7700.

What I have found is that the 80s are so efficient that I have rarely seen the wattage of the 80s go over 20 on my Monster 3 channel amp. Most of the time, the mains don't even register but the center shows 1 or 2 watts.

Re: Outlaw 7125 or 7700?
bugbitten #140489 06/03/06 06:08 PM
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Bug, you need to give that amp more of a workout than that Turn it up LOUD.


Rick


"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud

Re: Outlaw 7125 or 7700?
Wid #140490 06/03/06 06:10 PM
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Wid,

We are talking so loud that I can't stay in the room, but the volume is just right 2 rooms away. Still less than 20 watts on the mains for cds.

Re: Outlaw 7125 or 7700?
saddlesore #140491 06/03/06 08:34 PM
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saddlesore (should I ask how you got that nickname?), I also extend my welcome to the forums.

I am in nearly the same situation you are. I am putting a HT in my basement and have an EP500, two M80s, a VP150, and two QS8s sitting in my dining room waiting to go. Every once in a while they whimper "Plug us in to some music, please..." but then I spank them and they hush up again.

But I digress. When the Basement HT project started, I thought I'd have a 16x35 area (with just under 8 ft of ceiling) to power, but then I subdivided it to better insulate the room and am left with a 16x18 HT.

I am going to go with the 990/7125. I too am frustrated by the 7700 being double the price of the 7125. The audio installer I am working with assures me that the 125 watts will be plenty, and from earlier posts here, sounds like he is right.

So, I'm noticing that there is a lot more talk on these boards about Outlaw in the last month or so. Seems like there's some groovy synergy gong on between Axiom and Outlaw, what with the internet-only sales, 30-day trial, fun message boards, etc... You don't suppose that Ian is the head Outlaw? Come to think of it, has anyone ever seen the two of them together? Hmmm...


Bears, beets, Battlestar Galactica.
Re: Outlaw 7125 or 7700?
Wid #140492 06/03/06 10:34 PM
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Hilarious!!!

"And then there's the Lofft, a measurement of neighbors' tolerance to testing new speaker systems"

I like it!
I like it alot.

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