Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater Why Denon Receivers?

I'll agree with my esteemed colleagues.

My Denon stuff has always been very reliable, of high quality, and completely unintelligible. I don't think it's just the manuals. I think it's the remote and the rest of the user interface. Denon stuff just doesn't make "sense" to me in the same way some other products do.

I'd check out the manuals online for products you are considering. Don't forget HK, Onkyo, Yamaha. Unless you're trying to drive M80's to insane levels, any of those brands will likely suit you just fine. Find the one that hits your sweet spot relative to price and features.

Hi Dennis,

This has been well-covered by most everyone here, but it all began some years ago when Axiom got reports of certain brands of AV receivers shutting down (or overheating or going into "current limiting", which limits output power into low impedances) when driving the Axiom 4-ohm M80 tower speakers.

That's when at Axiom, we went through a number of brands at our factory (and owned by myself and Axiom colleagues) to determine which models would drive the M80s and which ones would not. The winners were H/K, Denon, Rotel, Outlaw Audio, Arcam, and B&K.

The losers at that time included Onkyo, Yamaha, Pioneer, Kenwood, Sony, etc.

I also avoided recommending some AV receiver brands that in my experience as an editor of AV magazines for many years, had quality control problems in the past (Onkyo, NAD, Kenwood) or had been disappointing in one respect or another (Sony).

As the years have passed, some brands like Pioneer have introduced certain models with MOSFET output transistors (the VSX-1015) which, although inexpensive ($499) will drive the 4-ohm M80s. That's true as well of entry-level models from Denon and H/K.

I can't help you out on the Pioneer Elite models, but any that advertise MOSFET output sections should not have any trouble driving lower impedances. There is a more recent Pioneer (the 1016) which has HDMI switching but does NOT have the MOSFET output section, so don't get that one if you plan on using 4-ohm speakers.

As always, Alan sums it up nicely.

I am adding my two cents and can recommend Outlaw Audio. I've just set up a 990/7125 prepro/amp with my Axiom Epic 80/500 system. The Outlaw receiver, the 1070, gets rave reviews and, for its price, is a giant-killer.

Like Axiom, Outlaw offers a 30-day trial period and sells only over the net.

Again, thanks for everyone's input so far. As more people mention separates, I'm starting to look at them also ... argh! The last thing I need is more choices and decisions!

As I alluded to in other posts, this will be my first foray into a real home theater setup. I don't know if my ears would notice the difference between a receiver and a prepro/amp, but my wallet certainly would. I realize that statement is a broad generalization, though it seems hard to put together a prepro/amp combo that beats a receiver in terms of price and features. Performance is a different story, but again, I don't know if I'd appreciate the difference enough to justify the cost for me.

I'm looking at the M60's b/c my room isn't THAT large (about 3000 cu ft), nor would I play my music that loud. From what I gathered, most of today's receivers at $1000 and up should be able to drive those speakers (along with the VP150 and QS8's) without a problem. At the same time, I'm also going to use the HT setup for video games (can't wait ...), and the PS2 and GC both output 480i/p. So, I'm interested in a video upscaling to 720p, which some receivers do, but I'm not aware of any reasonably priced prepro doing it. A separate video processor is probably overkill for my needs (and wallet).

Just sharing my thoughts as I re-read people's posts ...

Hmmm ... maybe I've confused my terms ...

My understanding of "upscaling" is taking a signal and increasing its resolution, like 480p to 720p or 1080p. I believe it also include deinterlacing, 3:2 pull-down, and other video processing chores. This is what I want, b/c I'm taking mostly 480i signals from the game consoles and displaying them with a 720p projector. As best I can tell, only higher-end receivers and pre/pro have this capability, otherwise one has to rely on a dedicated vido processor (like the DVDO products). Depending on how well the receiver or pre/pro upscales compared to the how well the TV or projector upscales, there may be an improvement in image quality.

As I understand it, "upconversion" is taking a composite or S-video signal, and outputting it through a component or HDMI cable. The signal's resolution and whether it's progressive vs interlaced is unchanged. So, a 480i composite input upconverted to HDMI output would still be 480i. As you mentioned, it's convenient for decreasing the number of cables between the receiver and display, but doesn't improve image quality. Most decent receivers can do this, either to component or HDMI.

If I'm barking up the wrong tree, someone please tell me ...

It's probably me mashing up terms-but even deinterlacing is nothing more than a parlor trick. I would equate it to ripping an MP3 at 96k mono and then burning that MP3 to CD. Sure, you can play it in your CD player, and maybe you even get some pseudo stereo added in with the decompression engine, but the quality can't possibly get any better than the source 96k mono mp3.

I resreve the right to be called clueless with regards to this, I'm just going on instinct. I've never seen a real benefit from 3:2 pulldown for video (stills are another story) and I've seen the impact of trying to push a 480i signal to 720p and I'd usually say that it gets worse rather than better.

Here we go again again...

Dennis, the significant flaw in your discussion is the "increasing its resolution" statement. The resolution can't be increased beyond its native content(e.g. 480), but in order to be shown on 720 or 1080 displays the 480 input has to be scaled to 720 or 1080 by mathematically calculating extra pixels and interpolating them between the "real" ones. The display device has to do this if it hasn't been done previously by a player or receiver. As was said before, unless the player or receiver does a visibly better job of it, using the processing there brings no advantage in picture quality.

DR Wolf, I can tell you that there IS a significant differance between watching a DVD on a standard progressive 480p player and a unconverting player like the Panasonic S97S at 720p or 1080i. Yes John is correct that your dealing with the 480i signal on the dvds, but depending on the scaler quality, the picture WILL be much better. Taking it to the next level, my HTPC with 6600GT Nvidia card scaled to match my Z2's 1280 x 720 native resolution, actualy blows my S97S out of the water on quality. Not to mention the TheaterTek DVD Software I use in combination. The picture is simply breathtaking.

ps: I think we should change the subject to speaker break-in. Your right Ken, here we go again on our own, going down the only road we've ever known.....