Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Technical Questions Headphone Amp vs Reciever Help, and Headphone Help

So, here is the dillema. 2:00 AM. I want music. Dorm asleep, roomate asleep. Axioms are no go.

So, here we go headphones! In my current headphone search, the following headphones interested me:

I've listed all the lowest prices I could find via pricegrabber.com.

Sennheiser HD 555 ($95)
Sennheiser HD 580 ($150)
Sennheiser HD 595 ($160)

AKG K240S ($99)
AKG K 171 ($130)

Grado SR80 ($95)
Grado SR125 ($150)

The only one of these I tried was the SR80. My friend down the hall has them. I was amazed how much they sounded exactly like the M22's with great, clear treble and midrange. I've read reviews about hwo the SR80's have good, punchy bass. When I was listening to them, I thought...what bass? I mean, it was there, but really didn't have the extension I was looking for when I was listening for it. Also, I could not STAND how they felt on my ears. Within 5 minutes I was consciously trying to recess the itchy uncomfortable feeling to the back of my mind. I probably wouldn't get them just for that reason.

I'd really only like to dish out $100, but if a $150 set of cans will make it worth it, I'll go for it.

From the reviews, I think the Sennheiser 550's or 580's...or 595's would be good for me. The 550's would be if I was fealing cheap. It seems to me the 580's are laid back like the M3's and the 595's are right up front like the M22's. I know they won't sound just like the axioms, but that isn't necessarily what I want. I might just go with the 580's cause they look cool and I can get a laid back presentation, I dunno.

Any recommendations for a headphone newbie that could possibly give me comparisons in reference to the Grado SR80's?

Thanks!

Also, another question I had. I am considering (note: considering) getting a headphone amp. However, the ones from HeadRoom (headphone.com) are pricy. The cheapest one sports a USB connector for digital output, and the review's I've read really only compare the sound to a laptop or MP3 players sound. I ALREADY have digital output from my computer to my reciever, turning into a near perfect signal, which is part of what you are paying for for the mobile line of amps.

So, would I be able to hear much of a difference between my Yamaha RX-V557 and... http://www.headphone.com/products/headphone-amps/the-micro-line/
That?

I've partially poked around in the headphone world and my goodness it does go deep. $12,000 CD players, $2000 headphones, $500 Power supplies, $5000 amps...wow.

Anyways, I'm turning to you headphone audio experts (or anyone with any kind of experience) for help. So, thanks .

If you don't want to spend a lot of money on a set of headphones go to your local RadioShack and pick up a pair of Koss KSC 75's. They are on sale for $12.49 and imo sound wonderful for the money. Run them straight from your receiver, they are only 60 ohm so they present a pretty easy load. They do have that Grado kinda sound.

I can't comment on the Senn models you mention but I do like the HD 280 pros I have.

The Grado pads do become more comfortable the more they are worn. I personaly find them pretty comfortable from the start.

Dan, I occasionally use the AKG 501s that I've had a few years for late night Rachmaninoff, but of the ones you've listed I'd suggest the Sennheiser 595s. Your receiver should drive their moderate impedance without any problem.

Hi Dan!

Wow! Rick and John have already said it all! I have heard great things about both the KSC 75 and the HD595!!

I would feel totally out of place, however....

...here it comes....if I didn't put in a plug for my favorite Axiom-sound-alike, the (TA-DAA!)Alessandro MS-1!!!

I did lots of research to see which cans best match my Axioms(since Axiom didn't want to build any for me. )and the MS-1s are it!! Compared to SR-80s however, the MS-1s would be a bit more analytical and netural, but a bit less exciting and less "fun"(this is the standard quote of the Grado/Alessandro differences.)

Seriously though, a great set of cans. I can't comment on the bass question other than to say that the bass is much like the bass from my M50s without a sub. Shucks! They sound just like my M50s! Ok; maybe a bit more foreward and a tad brighter, but I never feel sonic shock going back and forth from speakers to cans and back again.

I like the MS-1s so much that(Hey Rick! It's official!!)I'm getting a new set of Alessandro MS2i!! Ya-Hoo!!

Comfort with Grados' is an interesting question; some folks have no problem with stock pads, others......well! I use Sennheiser HD414 pads quarter-modded and reversed and even with 100gm of sockets on the adjusters(don't ask)I was able to get in a ten hour listening test a few weeks back! But yeah; the MS-1 looks exactly like the SR-80 but comes with Grado "Comfy" pads and the choice of 1/4" or 1/8" plug and will run great without an amp....no problem!!

I have my eye on an amp that really has my attention at the moment. The Gilmore Lite. It was originally designed with Grado phones in mind and is extreemly flat and neutral. Ya better like your cans and ya better like your source cause it ain't gonna add anything or take anything away! The proverbial "bare-wire-with-gain!" The price is the same as the micro-amp: $299. It comes with a standard wal-wart power supply which virtually everyone who has tested finds acceptable but they also have a matching dedicated power supply for an additional $225 which is especially helpfull when the power company is having problems supplying good service!!

Oh; and the MS-1s are $99 shipped!
Rich.

Thanks for the tips guys.

I've been looking around and for the money, Sennheiser is the best hands down. Any set of cans being compared to them (beyerdynamic, AKG, or whoever) fetch for much more money.

The 580's i've learned are 300 Ohm headphones that need lots of juice to sound good. And I see lots of people who love their Senn HD 595's and don't have any other headphones. One poster even used the words "orgasmic" and "595's" in the same sentence. Hey, if it's orgasmic, how can I go wrong?

I mean, if I get anything less I'm going to have upgraditis. Anything significantly better than the 595's are going to be lots more money (the 600's are almost $100 more)

I should be pulling the trigger within the next hour or so after I gather my nerves. Hehe.

I would definitely stick with Sennheisers for open air listening (having not heard Grados for 15 years), but if you're wanting to keep the noise down for your sleeping roomate, open may not be the way to go. I'd recommend AKG DJ81s for good low end punch, and pretty darn good mids and highs. You could also consider the Sennheiser HD280s, but I found the AKGs to be generally superior.

Oh, and as for the headphone amps, I have a Creek. I cannot hear any difference between that at the same volume and not using it. However, I can boost the volume more with the amp, and it's much better than just using the computer output. At the very least, only because it has a really nice volume knob.

Dan, when I was in college I bought a pair of Senn HD570s and drove them with a Denon bookshelf system. I really like the smooth sound of the Senns. Unfortunately, I haven't had a chance to listen to other brands to offer a comparison.

An important thing for me was comfort. The Senns were very lightweight and comfy around my ears--could wear them and listen to them for hours without fatigue.

With open designs like the Senns, quite a bit of sound escapes--something to consider if your roommate has rabbit ears. Luckily my roommate slept like a log.

Seems to me that the sleeping room-mate is your real problem. For the same price as a set of headphones you could get an expresso machine and turn your room-mate into a wild-eyed caffeine addict...

... and then you could use the Axioms.

LOL

Yea..prolly not going to do that...bridgman..hah.

Well, I've been looking over at headfi.com...great forum. This is a forum where people embrace lots of different headphones and say why they like them and so forth. There was a "rate your headphones" thread where people simply rated their headphones.

The Senn 595's were simply a consistent winner, so it looks like I'm going with them.

My roomate sleeps like a log with 2 arms, 2 legs, and a head.

It's just that, he is on the phone with his girlfriend like...24/7. I think he said his latest cell phone bill said he used 20,000 minutes. So, thumping axioms are fine when he isn't on the phone, or when he isn't sleeping till 3 PM...or when others can hear me past 12 AM. So, headphones work out.

Thanks guys .

HD595s are a great choice for a full sized set of cans! I was even thinking of them for my "other" cans to do what the Alessandros won't do, but they are a bit too foreward and exciting to act like "others"!(darn, I need something laid-back and darker for classical) but they are very impressive performers at a very good price from all that I've read!! Highly recommended!

I think it's a good choice!
Rich.

That's what the HD 650's are for

The HD650s are really nice! Love the way they sound.

It seems like you can get the 650s for less than the MSRP. I didn't realize the price was so high. Audioadvisor has them for much less.

I think I read that 580's were great for classical, dunno though.

I know the 570's did really well on classical and jazz. They pretty much didn't make the grade with rock though.

Gee; I shouldn't have gone to eat dinner!
I see three out of four votes for HD650!

Yeah, I voted already.

The current thought is the MS2i with Glite for rock. And the HD650 with.....Glite! for Classical! I have been doing a lot of studying and reading and realized that I had been reading only HALF of the reviews about the Glite; the half that talks about Grados. The other half talks about Glite with HD650!!

Seriously! There are lots of words about HD650 with Glite!

For classical I had also been thinking about K701 with tubes cause I really LIKE TUBES!! And tubes would tend to warm up the slightly cool K701 and make it more of a classical type of can. Turns out though that the warm HD650 is a really good match with the Glite as the neutral and analytical Lite tends to cool down the HD650 and remove "the veil"!! I haven't completed the study yet, but preliminary investigations show that the HD650 would work real well with the Gilmore Lite and let me end up with the convenience of just one amp!!

.....I suppose I could glue tubes on top of the Glite and run 6.3 heater voltage to them for show!!

Consequently I've been looking awfully close at Sennheiser the last couple days. They have all kinds of good stuff in their line-up! I'm impressed!!

So the gameplan at the moment seems to be going toward MS2i with Gilmore Lite for the analytical rock side and Senn HD650 with Gilmore Lite for the Classical side!

And MY M50s For Everything when I can Get A Turn at Them!!

But I'm happy to see that we are all in agreement with Senns!! Even a few more Senn votes back on page 1 also!!

Cool!
Rich.

If I were a classical music fan I would certainly get some 650's. It seems you can find Sennheiser at pretty good discounts . At this price they are no more than the Grado 325i's.

Arrrrrgh! No, NO! Not HD650 for $30 LESS that my MS2i!! That's not fair! I haven't even received my new rock cans and already I'm starting to look at my classical cans!

......hey! That IS a good price!.......

Ya know,....I'm really not bummed out about the signal out of my ancient CD/DVD player.... I wonder.

Naw, these cans really need a signal that doesn't have a "who knows" circuit terminating with a headphone jack output of questional integrity and SQ.

Well...it's never too early to start planning!!

That IS a good price!
Rich.

I figured it would tempt you Rich Heck it is tempting me too but I am waiting for a set of AKG K-81 DJ's as we speak maybe next time.

Aha! Another AKG owner... btw, they do clamp to the head a fair amount.

K81s huh? Heard folks talkin' about them, Rick. Gotta run over to the other side and see what they're all about!!

On their way huh? Cool!

Mine haven't shipped yet. Alessandro still hasen't ask my bank for the bucks. No surprize, Goeorge and Tracy are probably out of town doin' a gig and there's no one watchin' the shop! Maybe ship tomorrow; maybe next week!

They WERE ordered Friday morning; just when I thought thay were!!

Ok....went and took a look at the K81s. Cute cans. Where do they fit in your inventory? It looks as though they overlap with some you have already!

Neat though! Gonna add to the fun for sure!

Now if they don't clamp too tight!
Rich.

I have read they put a pretty hard clamp on the ol noodle. We'll see hopefully this week.

Quote:

---

Where do they fit in your inventory? It looks as though they overlap with some you have already!

---

I figured they will be my cold weather ( ear muffs ) portable hp's.

Of Course! Earmuffs!!

We've been living in Florida too long! If we were still living in Michigan I would have thought of that one straight away!

Yeah I used to wear.....uh, actually, no I didn't.....but if I would have thought of it!!

.......I can picture it now.....here's Rich riding his motorcycle to work listening to music on headphones with his Teac 7010 reel to reel strapped to his back....and a really long extension cord.

Now I know why I never thought of it!

Earmuffs; Yeah!!
Rich.

I've got a pair of the 81s, too. A little bass heavy, but really nice overall, especially given the price. Definitely great for rock music though - the bass, despite being a bit too much, is actually quite detailed so it doesn't come across as boomy. I actually haven't listened to my HD580s since buying them.

I picked up this tip on headfi for an easy and effective mod - the felt discs that cover the drivers can be removed (there is another piece of fabric beneath that). It brings out the treble and midrange a bit more and helps even out the bass some. Simple and easily reversible!

As for your choice, Dan, I think you made the right one given your music preferences. I have the HD580 and it is quite power hungry, and I can definitely tell the difference in SQ between my heaphone amp (Gilmore Dynamic v2) and the headphone jack on my receiver. It also has a pretty laid back presentation (where some headphones/speakers might be described as giving you a front row or on-the-stage presentation, the 580s sound like you're a few rows back in the audience), so it isn't the best choice if you want to rock out. That said, they have a huge and very precise soundstage, are very well balanced, are extremely detailed without being harsh they're very comfortable, so I can wear them for hours on end without any fatigue. But if you listen to rock and want a phone with a similar sound to the M22, then the 580 ain't it. I think mine makes a good counterpoint to the Axiom sound, though.

OK, I'll bite. How do you remove the discs?

BTW, I should be clear that the cans I tested the amp with were HD570s, which I think are a little more forgiving than 580s. Not sure.

Just pinch them with your fingers and pull. They pop right out.

And to be fair, my amp is quite different from yours - in terms of layout and power. But you're right about the 570s - they're quite a bit more efficient than the 580s.

If your going to be using these at 2am with room mates you might want to limit your choices to a closed headphone. I own both the Grado 125's and Sennheiser HD280's and power both of them with Grado RA-1 amps, Sound wise they both have their strenghts. The grados sound the best, no doubt but comfort is an issue. After a couple hours i simply cannot wear them anymore. The sennheisers do sound somewhat nasal and boxed in compared to the grado's, however its not as easy to recognize unless your doing straight a/b comparisons. The sennheisers are alot more comfortable and offer significant noise reduction due to the closed design where the grado's offer none.

Overall for headphones Im not necessaraly looking for the best sound, because there are other factors that need to be considered so in this case i would vote for the Sennheisers. The grado's DO sound better but theyre not as comfortable, theyre more expensive, and they dont offer any isolation. If I want ultimate sound quality i'll turn on my stereo, The headphones arent meant to be an alternative, or replacement. Only a different way of listening when I cant turn the stereo on.

You can get the Sennheiser HD280's for around $75 from amazon, which is the cheapest ive found.

I may be one of the lucky ones that can wear Grados' for over ten hours straight without problem!! I have fairly small ears and find Sennheiser HD414 pads quarter modded and reversed fit me to a T. My ears just snuggle right on in there and get right at home. If you still have the bowls on your SR-125s, you may want to look into a bit of pad rolling. The results vary from individual to individual for comfort, and the performance varies as well depending on the type of system being used, but some folks report having good luck.

....uh, that would be ME!
Rich.

I find the Grado bowls and comfy pads pretty comfortable. I like the bowls even more than the pads, I think I'm going to put bowls on my SR 60's too.

I've tried a few different Senn models and imo the Grado sound is much more like the sound I get from my Axioms.

Wow.

I can't put grado's on for more than 10 minutes without ripping them off. Hehe. :-)

In the long run, the open headphones will do fine. The leakage out of the open headphones isn't going to be loud enough to bother my roomate. Mostly, others around the dorm. And I'd like to get some of the best sound possible, and the Senn 595's seem to do that very well, especially for their price, wow.

Senn 595's are on their way!!!

Booooooo! Pox on You!!




.......my MS2i haven't even shipped yet.

just kidding!

I have only a few songs on the AKG's so far and I like what I hear. No direct comparisons yet but they are sounding pretty good so far.

The clamping isn't bad yet, I'll have to give them more time to see if it get's fatiguing. I don't suspect it will though.

As and added bounus the fellow I bought them from gave me a free CMoy amp, what a complete suprise that was

I'll be posting a review when these babies come.

It will be my first initial opinions because I have "virgin" ears to hi fi headphones.

I think they shipped today. I wonder if FedEx ground could get it to IN from NJ on the 3rd business day.

I retract any previously made "Pox on you" statements!! My MS2i are on the way too!!

....well; my account was tampered with by the same ammount, so I guess that's what it means.

Congrats on the amp with the earmuffs, Rick. That would give on a nice warm feeling!

I'll be watching for the mail lady rather than a normal shipper, like...FedEx, but I'll still be parking my nose against the front window glass just like before!!

But hey! We've got quite a little sub-community of cans listeners here in the Axiom family!

Cool!
Rich.

No Grado's ???

Yeah!.....no Grados???
Rich.

I tried my friends Grados. They are unbearable on my ears for more than 5 minutes. Itchy itchy.

Shipdog.com has been processing them for the last 2 days. :-(

Wow, shipdog took an extra day for processing but fedex says I have 2 day shipping. It will be in my grubby hands tomorrow at 4:30.

Tick...tock...tick...

So, you guys listen to cans in the can?

Tomorrow at 4:30...Cool!!

I haven't got a clue on mine.....no info given. Hope by Saturday though!

Cans in the can? Uh, yeah; I suppose so....Hey why not!!

....if I flush and the Walkman or Zen falls in, I ain't lettin' go of that phone cord for nuttin'!!

I ain't loosin' my new cans!!

No way!
Rich.

I can watch the can-can on my iPod with cans on the can. Can't you?

I can listen to can-can with cans on the can, but can-not watch can-can on the can; wish I can.

Wish I can watch can-can in the can on my cans, but I can-not on my can wish I could, but I can...


...not.

Have you a Zans for cans?





You should.

I can listen to cans, cans in the house, cans in the can, playing Zanathus.

They came!

Pretty much, they sound like axioms on my head. Really nicely balanced headphones.

Not a lot of low low bass though like i'm used to with my sub.

Congrats! Glad to hear they showed up!

....I'm still waiting.

Bass-wise, my Ms-1s sound pretty much the same as my M50s do without the sub. So know what you mean. I expect; from what I have been reading; that the MS2i will do somewhat better,......when they eventually get here. I don't suspect that they will anywhere equal the slam of the sub either.

Anyway; congrats on your delivery! That's good news! And I hope to be able to share some notes and observations soon too!Rich.

That Mr. Murphy; the one who makes all those silly laws? Y'all know the one, he's such a kidder!

"Have you posted yet? Ya did?....ok!"

Just when my nose was away from the front glass...."Honk, Honk" "Mail Delivery!"

They're here, and they sound great right out of the box.

.....my sockets are under weight. These things are "HEAVY"!!

And the bowls feel weird! Gonna take some getting used to.

The Bass Is Good!!
Rich!

Hey Rick! Yer right!!

As the SR-325i beat out the SR-60s; so do the MS2i beat out the MS-1!!

All your predictions came true!!

And right straight outta the pizza-box!!
Rich.

....oh.....the bass isn't just good.....(as Tony says)it's Greaaat!! On one of my CDs a real strong poorly recorded kick-drum only puts out a fuzzy indistinct pressure in the MS-1s. Now the kick has KICK!! Real controll!!

EDIT: Also; I've been wearing these things for over two hours straight now with the bowls.....cool!!

I'm glad both of you got just what you wanted. I do a lot of hp listening anymore.

Yeah Rich, like I said before what the lower end Grado's do the higher end ones do in spades. It's not a subtle difference either, it's huge imo.

I almost forgot, try the bowls on your Ms 1's. Tell me what you think.

Yeah Rick; these things are something else again! I am as happy with my silver mushrooms as you are with your golden ones!!

What is surprizing is just how much better they sound than the MS-1s without even having an amp. I really didn't expect this much of an improvement. A lot of the folks on the other forum were warning me about setting myself up for disapointment.

No disapointment here!

Yup; I was thinking of changing out the pads and throwing the bowls an the MS-1s and 414s on the MS2s after the new wears off a bit. Right now I'm almost afraid to touch them and add fingerprints even!!

I'm not sure if I'm quite ready to classify the bowls as more comfy than the 414s yet.....I'm not sure I'm ready to say even "as" comfy as 4141s yet, but I going to give them a real good chance as I'm very happy with the way these cans sound! I do have to admit to having worn them for a bit over three and a half hours since they showed up this afternoon, and that ain't bad!!

Had to take them off when the kids got home from school and we had dinner.(couldn't wear them with the PCDP at dinner cuz I dont have a 1/4 to 1/8" adapter, or good life insurance. The Wife, ya know! )

Speakin' of the Wife. She's been making noises about taking over the MS-1s for her computer and zen.

....I guess that's ok....shucks, I don't think I'll be wantin' to listen to lesser cans anyways!!

So....I put the pizza-box up on the dresser next to the one from the MS-1s, and it hit me(duh; no kidding!)that, Hey! I have two out of three of the Alessandros! I have also read that some folks find MS-Pros as being OK with most classical. Hmmmmmm.....? Wonder if MS2i with a dry analytical amp for rock and....MS-Pro with a good warm tube amp for classical!

My M50s do it all! Why can't phones!? Unfair!!

Hey! another CD just ended! Maybe bowls AREN'T so bad after all!
Rich.

"Ok" I said as I questioned the difference in comfort between the MS-1 and MS2, "Lets slap the little dears back on the ears just for grins." Couldn't put 'em back on without tunes though.

Hey! Not bad! Not bad at all!

I'd best be carefull of critisism of the MS-1s. They miss some top, they miss some bottom, they even miss a little in the middle, but they sound the "same" as MS2i. Not just as Much! I'm gonna guess 70% of MS2i for 33% of the price!!

MS-1s are still highly recommended Axiom sound-alikes!
Rich.

.....ok now; where'd I put my MS2s?

Same goes for the SR 60's, highly recommended. I'm listening to them with a Creative Zen and portable hp amp right now, not bad at all. I just got the Zen tonight, it sure is going to beat taking the portable cd player and amp with me on my bike rides. I'm quite suprised with the sq.

Don't get me wrong they sure as heck are no match for they 325's but the are still keepers. You need to get the wife an amp for the Zen, it makes a HUGE difference.

My Wife has had the Zen for quite a while and has only been listening to it with cheap earbuds. I tried it once a few weeks ago with my MS-1s and it sure sounded a lot better than what she had. She isn't too concerned with fidelity, as a matter of fact she usually listens with just ONE EAR so she can hear what's going on around her, and to get lots of tunes in her machine she normally use the most compressed of sampling rates!!

One day while praising up the KSC 75s I also showed her a picture of a mint-can-amp, and she wondered where(small as it was) she could put such a thing!!

Sho also thought the Kosses would interfere with her glasses. I batted a zero that day.

She is slowly coming around though. I caught her looking at new higher capacity players and even my MS-1s, so.....

There may be hope for her yet!
Rich.