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Re: SVS PB-12 vs EP350
Hutzal #147705 09/22/06 12:22 AM
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axiomite
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>>Which sub do you have bridgeman?

I have an SVS PC-Plus 20-39. I bought it before the EP500 and 600 were available, ie when buying a sub was a lot easier. The PC+ ended up costing about the same as an EP500 once it was shipped to and imported into Canada, so if I were doing it again I would probably have gone with an EP500.


M60ti, VP180, QS8, M2ti, EP500, PC-Plus 20-39
M5HP, M40ti, Sierra-1
LFR1100 active, ADA1500-4 and -8
Re: SVS PB-12 vs EP350
bridgman #147706 09/22/06 02:35 PM
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I would love for Axiom to make an EP400.

This would have the same type of driver that the EP500 contains and extends to lower frequencies such as 18hz using XLF (Extended Low Frequency) technology.

Increase the price a bit to compensate. Really, I think they need to make a "Mini" EP500 with the same qualities for smaller rooms.

-Hutz

Last edited by Hutzal; 09/22/06 02:45 PM.

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Re: SVS PB-12 vs EP350
Hutzal #147707 09/22/06 05:55 PM
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I have suggested an EP400 enough times that it has become a standing joke around the Axiom factory.

My suggestion was to switch to the EP500 cabinet to get a lower tune point, but stay with the existing EP350 electronics (or a digital, no DSP replacement) to keep the price point. I think the question we have to ask is not "what would you add to the EP350", but "what would you take out of the EP500 which would actually reduce the build cost and allow a significantly lower price point ?".

Last edited by bridgman; 09/22/06 05:58 PM.

M60ti, VP180, QS8, M2ti, EP500, PC-Plus 20-39
M5HP, M40ti, Sierra-1
LFR1100 active, ADA1500-4 and -8
Re: SVS PB-12 vs EP350
bridgman #147708 09/22/06 06:57 PM
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IF there is somehow a way to make a 10" version that goes to 18 - 20hz at 100db with the XLF technology, that would work I think. If you stick a 10" driver in the cabinet of the EP500 you would have alot bigger of a cabinet to push out those dbs at a lower frequency.

Although I do not know much about this stuff, i may be blowing hot air here

-Hutz


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Re: SVS PB-12 vs EP350
Hutzal #147709 09/22/06 08:23 PM
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Changing one of the subs important parameters like a driver or enclosure size will impact everything else significantly. It would be much more difficult to match the EP500s smooth FR and extension even with the XLF technology.

I wouldn't be surprised to see the sub line expanded.
Mini versions of the 500 using smaller enclosures and drivers would make alot of sense but the FR range would be smaller if you want it linear which is Axiom's hallmark.

I wouldn't be lulled by other manufacturers' claims of uncomporomised extension for the sake of sub 20hz response. Those subs are not usually linear especially compared to an Axiom sub. With other subs I've owned that extension usually comes at the price of less distinct bass and falling FR from 30hz up. Not a good compromise.


John
Re: SVS PB-12 vs EP350
bridgman #147710 03/02/07 06:18 AM
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axiomite
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>>I have suggested an EP400 enough times that it has become a standing joke around the Axiom factory.

Now that Axiom has launched the EP400 as a "smaller but still really powerful" baby brother to the EP500 I guess they're going to have to call "my sub" (EP350 guts in the larger EP500 box) the EP350 v3

Hsu did the same thing a few months back -- moved all of their subs up one "box", eg. putting the VTF-1 guts in the VTF-2 box, VTF-2 guts in the VTF-3 box. That caused a couple of my Hsu-owning friends a lot of grief because it meant that they could no longer get turbo kits for their VTF-3s, so they no longer had an upgrade path.

As jakeman posted above, relying on just the enclosure to get deep bass brings other problems; the "EP350 v3" would be at its best as a movie sub and probably not as good as the current EP350 for music -- but IMO the "reasonably priced killer movie sub" is the biggest need and I *think* the results for music would be pretty good.

Going back to an earlier post, I think the purpose of the high pass filter on the PB10 was not so much increased headroom as trying to avoid exciting the enclosure around the 18-20 hz tune point, so the sub can't "muddy" the sound by having the enclosure & port continue to resonate after the initial sound has gone away.

Hey... a high pass filter switch would be a great feature for the EP350v3

Last edited by bridgman; 03/02/07 06:32 AM.

M60ti, VP180, QS8, M2ti, EP500, PC-Plus 20-39
M5HP, M40ti, Sierra-1
LFR1100 active, ADA1500-4 and -8
Re: SVS PB-12 vs EP350
bridgman #147711 03/02/07 01:11 PM
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axiomite
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Quote:

Hsu did the same thing a few months back -- moved all of their subs up one "box", eg. putting the VTF-1 guts in the VTF-2 box, VTF-2 guts in the VTF-3 box. That caused a couple of my Hsu-owning friends a lot of grief because it meant that they could no longer get turbo kits for their VTF-3s, so they no longer had an upgrade path.





If they have rear firing ports they can still use the turbo.


Rick


"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud

Re: SVS PB-12 vs EP350
Wid #147712 03/02/07 02:01 PM
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axiomite
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That would be great, but I think the port size was changed between the VTF3 Mk2 and the new box used for VTF3 HO and Mk3. The new box has 4" ports and the turbo is only made for the new box.

Ahh, here we go. Looks like the HO turbo will work on the Mk2 if you put the 4" turbo tubes around the OUTSIDE of the 3" port flares on the Mk2. Reports seem to indicate that it looks like it will fall apart with the first good thump but actually seems to work pretty well. Thanks !

http://forum.hsuresearch.com/showthread.php?t=2859

Edit -- oh geez... looks like in addition to the "turbo" (longer ports) there is talk about also offering a "Hsupercharger" (add-on box to increase enclosure volume) which *might* be available for the VTF3 Mk2.

http://forum.hsuresearch.com/showthread.php?t=2309

I have to admit this seems *really* clunky and I doubt it will see production.

Last edited by bridgman; 03/02/07 02:20 PM.

M60ti, VP180, QS8, M2ti, EP500, PC-Plus 20-39
M5HP, M40ti, Sierra-1
LFR1100 active, ADA1500-4 and -8
Re: SVS PB-12 vs EP350
bridgman #147713 03/02/07 02:30 PM
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axiomite
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Final correction -- looks like only the VTF3 Mk3 moved an existing driver into a larger cabinet. For the other subs they actually picked up both cabinet *and* driver from the next higher model, or moved the electronics *down* one model, depending on how you want to think about it.

In other words VTF3 Mk2 + new HO cabinet = VTF3 Mk3, VTF3 Mk2 plus smaller amp from VTF2 = VTF2 Mk3. That all seems too confusing.

Last edited by bridgman; 03/02/07 02:41 PM.

M60ti, VP180, QS8, M2ti, EP500, PC-Plus 20-39
M5HP, M40ti, Sierra-1
LFR1100 active, ADA1500-4 and -8
Re: SVS PB-12 vs EP350
bridgman #147714 03/02/07 02:46 PM
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Quote:

That all seems too confusing.





Ummmm. Yeah.






::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::
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