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HTPC...again
#148250 09/26/06 11:11 PM
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I still don't fully understand how a HTPC works, but the more I hear/read the more interested I am.

Thoughts

1) I recently read some tests in which PC based video cards were blowing stand alone DVD player performance away. (FAR away) That included players such as the Denon DVD-3910!

2) TivoHD...$899 + $12.95/month???? There's got to be a better/cheape way to record/playback HD.

3) Convienence...having my entire music collection ripped at the highest possible bit rate MP3's and stored on disk is hard to pass up. If I want some critical listening, I can always pull the disc off the shelf.

Questions:

1) Amplification? We all go out and buy recievers with 120 watts per channel, stand alone amps, etc...what gives? What's driving the 5.1 (or 7.1) channels in a HTPC?

2) DVR capabilities...Tivo is fantastic. How's DVR work in a HTPC? How would I hook up the PC to my cable? How does programming show to record in the future work?

3) HDTV...I've heard that you cannot record HD. True?

4) HD-DVD/Blu-Ray...Assuming down the road you can buy ad HD-DVD and/or Blu-Ray DVD drive. If I throw that into the HTPC...is the DVI out of the video card going to be able to pass the full 1080p signal? Are cards going to need to incorporate HDMI to make HD-DVD/Blu-Ray playback on a HTPC possible?

5) How important is processor speed? RAM? Dual Core? A lot of money can be saved here if the machine doesn't need to be a monster.

6) (this one is specific to my Sony KDS-60A2000 tv) The TV has an HDMI input and a VGA input, but no DVI. Can I buy a DVI to HDMI cable and run that between the PC and TV?

I'm sure I'll think of more...

Re: HTPC...again
spiffnme #148251 09/26/06 11:17 PM
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As for #2 Thought, you're not going to get a decent HTPC for less than $899. The $12.95/month, I can't speak to.

As for #3 Question, the reason you can't record HDTV is you've got nothing to decode it from cable or satellite--2 way cable cards are not available at all yet, and will not be available for the home builder market. 1 way cable cards are available, but I don't know of an HTPC interface that will take one. Please correct me if I'm wrong...


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Re: HTPC...again
Ken.C #148252 09/26/06 11:25 PM
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Two years of TivoHD would cost $1210. I could build a HTPC for close to that, and have a lot more than a Tivo when I was done.

Not being able to record HDTV would suck though.

...If I have a set top cable box, couldn't I run the output of the cable box into the PC - letting the cable box do the decoding?

Re: HTPC...again
spiffnme #148253 09/26/06 11:28 PM
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I think that there is some technical hurdle to doing that, but I can't recall what it is.

By my measure, 3 years of HDTiVo is $1100, with the box at $799 and a $299 contract. But that's just me being argumentative.

Ah, here's another downside to the HDTiVo: cable only, no satellite.

Edit #3: This is from Microsoft's FAQ on XP Media Center Edition:

Does Windows XP Media Center Edition 2005 support HDTV? What do I need?

Windows XP Media Center Edition 2005 is the first PC operating system to support playback, pause, and recording of free, over-the-air high-definition television (HDTV) right out of the box. Just connect the Media Center PC that has HDTV support to an antenna that can receive a high-definition TV signal, and get up to six times the image quality of standard TV. Media Center PCs with HDTV support are available through various manufacturers and retailers.

Can I receive HDTV over cable or satellite?

Not at the current time. You can use standard connectors such as S-Video to connect your cable box or satellite receiver to your Media Center PC, and then watch and record high-definition TV programs. However, the HDTV programs will be in standard TV format. In order to watch and record a true HDTV signal using Media Center, you must have access to local channels broadcast over the air and receive these freely available signals with an HDTV antenna. For more information on HDTV antennas and over-the-air reception, please visit the CEA Antennaweb.org Web site.

Last edited by kcarlile; 09/26/06 11:34 PM.
Re: HTPC...again
Ken.C #148254 09/27/06 12:02 AM
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OK...so my math was wrong, but still, at $1100 that's darn close to building a real nice PC.

Re: HTPC...again
spiffnme #148255 09/27/06 12:10 AM
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OK, back to the rest of the questions:

1) Think of the HTPC as a preamp with perks.
3) Haven't a clue, but you're probably going to be back to recording by time/channel, not program.
4) Nope, you need a video card that supports HDCP--HD Copy Protection. I think that locks you to HDMI. Incidentally, your TV also has to support HDCP, which I'm sure it does, since it's brand new. The OS also must support HDCP--that means Vista, not XP, and very, very likely not Linux.
5) Important, especially if you're doing HD processing. If you're just using it as a DVD player and MP3 player, not so important. Big hard drive? Veeeerrry important. And with that hard drive comes risk. How much are you willing to assume? Do you need to consider backup? I would certainly consider redundancy, and that means RAID--and not that piddly RAID 0 crap. That's 2x as dangerous as a standalone HD.
6) Yes. But not for HDCP enabled content.

Fairly tangential to your questions, but it could be an interesting read anyway: Cable Card Primer

Last edited by kcarlile; 09/27/06 12:11 AM.

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Re: HTPC...again
Ken.C #148256 09/27/06 12:20 AM
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What's an example of HDCP enabled content? I just want to watch a dang DVD or TV.

Re: HTPC...again
spiffnme #148257 09/27/06 12:21 AM
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Blu-Ray, HDDVD, HDTV.


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Re: HTPC...again
Ken.C #148258 09/27/06 12:33 AM
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Basically anything over 480i resolution...ah.

Re: HTPC...again
spiffnme #148259 09/27/06 01:18 AM
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Re: HTPC...again
Rik #148260 09/27/06 02:42 AM
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Great thread...lots of the same types of questions I have about this. Not being able to record in HD would be a deal breaker for me though.

I haven't done much research yet, since I was going to wait for Vista before attempting this anyway, but maybe Vista with the proper video card will allow for HD recording *thinking wishfully*.

Re: HTPC...again
Zarak #148261 09/27/06 03:40 PM
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Only with a Cable Card. And that locks you to the prebuilt system market.


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Re: HTPC...again
Rik #148262 09/27/06 03:45 PM
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I am more than a little cautious about that article. Look at the byline. While I usually trust Audioholics (and no offense is meant), I gotta take something written by an HTPC vendor with a grain of salt. Especially the bit about DIY. Please. If you can do it, Mr. Reseller, so can someone else. Besides, the argument falls apart a bit when he mentions (right after that) that "you can upgrade to Blu-Ray/HDDVD!" Um... if you can't build a system without bugs, how can you make a major component change without bugs?

EDIT:

BTW, I don't want to make it look like I'm totally against HTPCs. I think they're wicked cool. What I am against is people getting snowed by the entertainment industry into accepting the restrictions they impose on us just so they can make an extra buck.

Plus I'm a pedant, and a tech. Means I have to nitpick.

Last edited by kcarlile; 09/27/06 03:47 PM.

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Re: HTPC...again
spiffnme #148263 09/27/06 07:51 PM
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Spiff,

The October 2006 issue of Maximum PC is dedicated to building a Media PC. The article is exhaustive - it even gives reviews on some components as well as software suggestions. You shouldn't have to pay for monthly TIVO, there is plenty of software that will not charge a monthly fee. If you cannot find that issue, let me know and I will make a copy for you.

Re: HTPC...again
Ken.C #148264 09/27/06 11:45 PM
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Quote:

I am more than a little cautious about that article. Look at the byline. While I usually trust Audioholics (and no offense is meant), I gotta take something written by an HTPC vendor with a grain of salt. Especially the bit about DIY. Please. If you can do it, Mr. Reseller, so can someone else. Besides, the argument falls apart a bit when he mentions (right after that) that "you can upgrade to Blu-Ray/HDDVD!" Um... if you can't build a system without bugs, how can you make a major component change without bugs?

EDIT:

BTW, I don't want to make it look like I'm totally against HTPCs. I think they're wicked cool. What I am against is people getting snowed by the entertainment industry into accepting the restrictions they impose on us just so they can make an extra buck.

Plus I'm a pedant, and a tech. Means I have to nitpick.





I have to agree with you on that point. Right or wrong, I believe if I can build my own computer I could manage a HTPC also.

Re: HTPC...again
spiffnme #148265 09/28/06 02:24 AM
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Quote:

1) I recently read some tests in which PC based video cards were blowing stand alone DVD player performance away. (FAR away) That included players such as the Denon DVD-3910!





I have been running HTPCs for a long time now. Software scalers and the software algorithms in players such as WinDVd, Dscaler, FDDshow has surpased quality seen in normal DVD players. The picture gets cleaned up, smoothens up and presents such a natural filmlike presentation. It can also make it worse by digitizing it too much. I have done head to head comparison on some of the DVD players I have vs a HTPC and a properly configured one can surpass it. One major reason is scaling 1:1 so your HTPC output equals the same resolution of viewing source such as matching your HTPC output to native resolution of your projector so no scaling occurs on the projector and the best possible picture is coming out of the HTPC.
Quote:




2) TivoHD...$899 + $12.95/month???? There's got to be a better/cheape way to record/playback HD.





If HD DV can be recorded via Firewire I can not see why HD feed can not be decoded and recorded as long as you stay in the digital realm.(Maybe I'm presuming some stuff) HD Camcorders have come out with HD DV content this past year. It is easily transfered over firewire in the digital realm to Final Cut Pro HD or Vegas Video. You do need lots lots lots of space and processing power to capture.
Normal dv is 1 meg a sec (My Sony Mini DV cam captures and transfer at this rate 720x480p)
Hdv is about 16 megs a second 720p (commercial HD DV cams 1280x720p)
True Hd 32 megs a second(professional HD DV cams 1920x1080p)
So if my math is right a 60 minute show in true HD is 115200 megs = 115 gigs to store in its uncompressed format.
Ouchie!!!! lots of hard drive is needed.


Quote:


3) Convienence...having my entire music collection ripped at the highest possible bit rate MP3's and stored on disk is hard to pass up. If I want some critical listening, I can always pull the disc off the shelf.





lossless digitizing which many people on this site do. OGG, slap the monkey...i dunno..lots of experts on here on this.


Quote:


1) Amplification? We all go out and buy recievers with 120 watts per channel, stand alone amps, etc...what gives? What's driving the 5.1 (or 7.1) channels in a HTPC?





HTPC should have digital out to receivers. You also can attach analog out from HTPC audio card for all channels into analog 7.1 input on receiver. I even tried attaching my tube monoblocks to each output on my HTPC. I would not recommend this as a PC can have dirty output sometimes on startup and a big "POP" can be heard through your speakers as the PC starts up. I thought my tubes exploded!!!!
As for capturing capturing the 5.1/7.1 information since the video is captured via digital realm I am presuming the audio is captured also in the digital realm.

Quote:


5) How important is processor speed? RAM? Dual Core? A lot of money can be saved here if the machine doesn't need to be a monster.





Here are some basic info on minimum recommendation to capture HD content. Might be helpful or not since this is based on capturing HD DV and creating DV content.

http://www.videoguys.com/system.htm



Quote:


6) (this one is specific to my Sony KDS-60A2000 tv) The TV has an HDMI input and a VGA input, but no DVI. Can I buy a DVI to HDMI cable and run that between the PC and TV?




http://www.lynnprod.com/products1.asp?prodid=178

Re: HTPC...again
Saturn #148266 09/28/06 02:44 AM
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Sure, there's no technical reason. But first show me a cable box that outputs full def video on firewire, then show me a card that accepts and interprets that, and the software to use it. AFAIK, it's the last two that are the trouble.


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Re: HTPC...again
Ken.C #148267 09/28/06 04:04 AM
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spiffnme: heres an example of a product that has a FAQ on some of the questions you asked about recording HD stuff on a HTPC using a HDTV card.
http://www.digitalconnection.com/Support/cn_myhd_1.asp

kcarlile: Here are some STB with firewire out. Connect firewire out to the digital input of a digital converter of any camcorder that accepts digital input via firewire. Camcorder converts it to HD DV format (I think) and pass the HD DV content via firewire to firewire input on PC using Video Vegas or firewire input on Mac using Final Cut Pro HD.
http://www.ramelectronics.net/html/KD-FIRE1080P.htm
This is dated but what happened to this.
http://digital-lifestyles.info/display_page.asp?section=platforms&id=1181

Here are MAC products that can record HD satellite feeds and and record using the Sats Program interface. The recorded show can be manipulated after recorded using Final Cut Pro in MAC. One transfers in firewire and the other STB can transfer via USB for captured programs.
http://www.elgato.com/index.php?file=products_eyetvhybridna
http://www.twinhan.com/product_terrestrial_9.asp

The mini mac is a great alternate to a HTPC.

What people do if their STB has firewire out they record not on harddrive due to capacity but on D-VHS which can store 50 gigs or 4 hours of 1080i HD content on D-VHS tape.
http://www.dvhsmovie.com/


Re: HTPC...again
Saturn #148268 09/28/06 05:43 AM
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1) I recently read some tests in which PC based video cards were blowing stand alone DVD player performance away. (FAR away) That included players such as the Denon DVD-3910!

A: There are many variables to this question. Just because you have a nice video card, doesn't mean it's going to automatically blow that nice DVD player out of the box. You can use software to adjust the picture (DScaler comes to mind) and tweak it all you like, but again this does require some know how and research.

2) TivoHD...$899 + $12.95/month???? There's got to be a better/cheape way to record/playback HD.

A: Tivo *JUST* got HD recording, I've owned a DVR from my cable company for almost a year now and I can record two HD sources at once. Critics will argue my box (a SA 8300HD if you're curious) isn't as polished and feature rich as a tivo, but hey I'VE BEEN ABLE TO RECORD FOR A YEAR :P! Also I didn't pay $900 for it. That's a whole other thread.

3) Convienence...having my entire music collection ripped at the highest possible bit rate MP3's and stored on disk is hard to pass up. If I want some critical listening, I can always pull the disc off the shelf.

A: This is indeed a good reason, however you don't need an HTPC to do this. There's hardware on the market that connects to your receiver and your home network and can stream both internet radio and your music collection to your stereo.

Questions:

1) Amplification? We all go out and buy recievers with 120 watts per channel, stand alone amps, etc...what gives? What's driving the 5.1 (or 7.1) channels in a HTPC?

A: It's the exact same as plugging a device into your receiver. The computer has it's power, the receiver gives power to the speakers. I use a digital coax connection (RCA on both ends) to output the pure digital straem to my receiver -- all the processing is done there, it's DAC's are much more powerful then the ones in my computer's sound card.

2) DVR capabilities...Tivo is fantastic. How's DVR work in a HTPC? How would I hook up the PC to my cable? How does programming show to record in the future work?

A: WIth the purchase of one (or more) tuner cards you can connect your cable signal to your PC. Multiple tuner cards allows you to record multiple shows at a time. Recorded shows work just like Tivo or a DVR from the cable company would work.

3) HDTV...I've heard that you cannot record HD. True?

A: True for the moment. The reason being is you need to decode the HD stream and encode it into something your PC can use, compression is also involved as HD takes up a lot of storage space. Also with HDCP on the horizon providers can flag certain shows to not be recorded, so to understand this signal you'd need an HDCP compliant tuner card.

4) HD-DVD/Blu-Ray...Assuming down the road you can buy ad HD-DVD and/or Blu-Ray DVD drive. If I throw that into the HTPC...is the DVI out of the video card going to be able to pass the full 1080p signal? Are cards going to need to incorporate HDMI to make HD-DVD/Blu-Ray playback on a HTPC possible?

A: yes DVI can handle 1080p video. There have also been HDMI cards announced from the major players that will allow you to connect directly to your TV, HDCP is supported as well. As for HDDVD/BluRay both are in early adoption phases at the moment, ignore what any "fan boy-ish" posts may tell you. Neither is a proven winner at the moment, and yes optical drives are coming but at the moment they're about a grand a piece and the blu-ray drive for example can't even read CD's

5) How important is processor speed? RAM? Dual Core? A lot of money can be saved here if the machine doesn't need to be a monster.

A: It doesn't need to be a big Dual Xeon workstation like the computer I'm typing on, but a Core 2 Duo would do wonderfully and the lowest model is cheap(ish) and will totally rock your socks. RAM is another component I'd get a good amount of, it's so cheap these days anyways 2 gigabytes I wouldn't even bat an eye at. If you're really performance nuts you can look into faster hard drives (SCSI for example, or SATA) to improve performance there, but every piece of hardware has it's areas to get more boost.

6) (this one is specific to my Sony KDS-60A2000 tv) The TV has an HDMI input and a VGA input, but no DVI. Can I buy a DVI to HDMI cable and run that between the PC and TV?

A: You can indeed by a HDMI - DVI cable, AvCables.com sells them in good lengths. You can also use a DVI - DVI cable with an adapter on one end. Note that you'll still need seperate audio conenctions as DVI doesn't pass audio (though I'm guessing you already figured this out since it goes into your video card :P)

BONUS: Software?

A: Software is what'll make or break your HTPC experience. You can now buy Windows XP Media Center Edition (MCE) as a standalone product. It provides a interface that your TV can use easily, it even comes with a universal remote if I recall. It'll allow you to browse TV, pictures, movies on your PC, music files, etc. The program guide works much like digital cable box from your cable company does.

If you're into the homegrown scene there's a linux based product called MythTV which is also quite the deal, there's SageTV and BeyondTV to look at as well.

NOTE 1: If you go the HTPC route you'll only be able to record the analog TV channels (2-99) or "Basic" cable from your provider. All the digital content / subscriber content (channels that you pay extra for, like TMN or TechTV) won't work because they have to be authorized by the cable company.

There's a standard called CableCard which is essentially a PCMCIA expansion card (like the ones used in laptops) that stores all that access / account information on the card and allows you to access all the other channels. CableCARD technology is currently being ported to a PCI expansion card style of product so you can through that into your HTPC and record all the premium content / HD content as well. In time though, in time.

I hope this helps answer some of your questions, if you have any more feel free to PM/email me and I'd be glad to answer them.

- D


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Re: HTPC...again
Saturn #148269 09/28/06 04:02 PM
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In that first link, it's very clear what HDTV you can record with their stuff: free, over the air transmission, even if it's coming over your cable. I guarantee that ESPN is not unencrypted, and neither is anything but those stations that are available free over the air.

Got anything to go with those product links describing how to record (and decrypt) encrypted HDTV or get a full def unencrypted signal out of firewire?


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Re: HTPC...again
spiffnme #148270 09/29/06 03:29 AM
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Well I'm late to this thread but since this is one of my favorite topics figured I'd chime in.

There is a LOT of great info here already so I don't want to rehash that. I have a few options that I'd like to share thou.

First of all if you don't want to spend at least a small amount of time tweaking stick with the cable company box or get a Tivo. Now to me either of those options would be like going back to a nice SDTV after having a HDTV, at least thats how I feel. But it's true, with any HTPC you will likely have at least SOME tweaking to do. If that doesn't scare you away then read on.

Right now there are many choices and ways to go about getting/building a HTPC. I've tried many but settled on XP MCE because I liked the design and how it just all works so I can speak to that better than the rest. I am eagerly awaiting the Vista version of MCE mainly because of the mentioned CableCard and HDCP support. Those two things are a REQUIREMENT for HTPC and PC support of HD type content in the future. I am not aware of how Apple will be addressing that issue (I'm sure they will however) but right now it doesn't look so good for Linux. In a nutshell what I'm suggesting is you may want to sit back and give this another few months to hash out because going thru the trouble of buying/building an XP MCE or something similar will be a futile effort since you will need Vista anyway for all the things that are going to matter now and in the future (HDTV from cable and Blu-ray/HD-DVD).

I do currently get HD on my MCE box using an OTA (over the air) tuner with antenna. I don't get any cable channels in HD that way, and yes it's a pain (because of the antenna) to setup but at least I have some HD content (for free).

I love my current setup, HDTV, AVR, MCE box. That's it. Having everything in one box (HTPC) to me is a very big perk. Everything in it works so seemlessly together and I've really gotten used to it being that way. Being able to put movies *online* and with a visual represention that is searchable is outstanding. Say I realize I forgot to set a show to record, I can open a webbrowser up and go to my box and tell it to record that show. The DVR functionality kills any cable company box I've been around. I've heard Tivo is better than the cable company boxes but I can't speak to them since I haven't used one (just my ReplayTV from back in the day). Having all my music on demand is something else I'd never be willing to give up. Browsing or searching for something to listen to with the album art on the screen is what I've come to expect now. I could go on and on.

I know I've listed all the reasons to get a HTPC now but with cablecard support and HDCP just a few months away in Vista I would sit back and wait till early next year and see how everything shakes out. If you have a spare PC thats calling your name, I'd say go for it now to get you hands dirty a bit but don't spend too much money right now if you care about HD.

Re: HTPC...again
INANE #148271 09/30/06 03:00 AM
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Quote:

Stuff posted by INANE




what have you been doing for none WMV videos out of curiosity? I've debating putting MCE on one of my machines in the closet and using my Xbox 360 as an extender, however it'll be pointless if I don't have someway to watch the other movies :P

- D


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Re: HTPC...again
Daphoid #148272 10/01/06 05:02 PM
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Quote:


what have you been doing for none WMV videos out of curiosity? I've debating putting MCE on one of my machines in the closet and using my Xbox 360 as an extender, however it'll be pointless if I don't have someway to watch the other movies :P

- D




I don't have any extenders currently for my MCE box but one of my friends does use a xbox360 and it quite pleased with it. He told me transcode360 works really well to get nonMS codecs to play thru his extender.

Re: HTPC...again
INANE #148273 10/03/06 10:57 PM
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OK Mac guy needs to chime in. Why not a Mac Mini w/ a USB HDTV dongle? Not too $$ and VERY easy to use. I have a PPC Mac Mini using the analog version of the USB dongle and the El Gato s/w is very easy to use. Easy to convert to iPod and PSP formats as well.

El Gato

Re: HTPC...again
oldskoolboarder #148274 11/07/06 11:40 PM
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OK...I know I'm beating this horse to death, but bear with me.

Here's my plan thus far:

case: Silverstone CW01
cpu: Intel Core 2 Duo E6300
motherboard: Intel 975X
ram: 2GB Kingston 667Mhz DDR2
vidya: Nvidia Geforce 7600GT with HDMI
audio: Creative X-Fi Extreme Music
ps: Seasonic S12-500
storage: Two of these Western Digital 500Gb
cd/dvd: NEC
cooling: Zalman's for the cpu and vidya card

I think I'll live without the ability to record HD with the HTPC and keep using your cable company's DVR until a HTPC solution is worked out.

The video card has an HDMI output so I'll hook that directly to the TV.

Audio...how do I integrate the HTPC into my HT system? I don't see that most (if any) sound cards have a coaxial or optical digital output? How do I connect the HTPC to my receiver/processor?

That question leads to my next question...

I've been considering selling my Rotel amp and processor and buying an all-in-one receiver. I miss listening to the radio at home and as technologies have been advancing over the years, my older processor is falling behind.

If I'm going to be using the HTPC to playback DVD's, DVR tv, listen to mp3's and play games...I don't really need a feature rich receiver do I? The only video that would be being fed through the receiver would be HD through the cable box, and possibly some video game consoles (PS2, etc) So uprezed video switching isn't a real need.

I'm so confused.

Re: HTPC...again
spiffnme #148275 11/08/06 12:36 AM
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Hello Spiffnme,

As for the audio, I have the M-Audio Revolution 7.1. It has SPDIF Coax out, I use it all the time to pipe my vast music collection sitting on my HD to my pre-amp using a 75 Ohm coax cable connected to the AUX port. Works like a charm. Althought the X-Fi is, in MHO, the fist CL audio card that approaches the quality of the M-Audio, I think the Revo is still a better card if you don't intend on doing a lot of gaming ie: 4.1 / 5.1 on your PC. The Revo plays games just fine but does not support as well the proprietary CL EAX . I have used every imaginable CL audio card since the very first one and I find the Revo to be superior, only the X-Fi comes close.

as for some of your other components, the Seasonic is a great PSU, I am running the S12 600W in my new pc now. I am of the AMD camp as opposed to Intel so I am running the Athlon 64 Dual Core 4400+ cpu on the Nvidia Nforce 570 chipset. Solid combination. I switched to AMD back in the very first Athlons and I have not looked back ever since. Although Intel is more on par with their prices recently, there was a time where Intel was significantly more expensive for less performance than AMD..Just my preference, AMD for CPU, Nforce for chipset and ATI Radeon for vid card.

Cheers,

Stephane


Acoustic Zen Adagio, Veritas center, Axiom EP500, QS8s, Anthem AVM20, MC20,Adcom GFA7400
Re: HTPC...again
Riker #148276 11/08/06 03:15 AM
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Another sound card to check out is the Auzentech X-Plosion. It's a little pricy at about $150 CDN, but I've been more then happy with it. It encodes everything to DTS or Dolby Digital surround if you want (music, games, etc.). It has 7.1 analog outputs as well as a coax and optical digital outs. Its always sounded great for me even on my old Pioneer HTIB, and I just hooked up my M22's and EP350 today through it and it sounds AMAZING!! I'm sure the new speakers are the main part of the improvement, but its not like I can hear any sort of limitations from the sound card so far. I read several reviews on its predecessor, the X-Mystique, and it was a great card as well. That one can be had for ~$100 CDN, but it doesn't encode to DTS, just Dolby Digital.


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Re: HTPC...again
spiffnme #148277 11/08/06 05:41 AM
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I think your hardware choices, from a HTPC standpoint, are overkill. So you are completely fine there.

I particularly love the 7600's as they have all the latest and greatest postprocessing features from Nvidia. Just be sure to match it with Nvidia's DVD decoder (you only need the cheap version if you end up using spdif output from your soundcard). HDMI on a video card is nice. You don't HAVE to have it as DVI works the same but gives you more options depending on what inputs your TV has.

As far as a sound card be sure to check this Chaintech AV-710 7.1 out. It's very higly regarded everywhere I go. Unfortuantely I don't think newegg sells it anymore so you'd have to find another vendor. I consider myself a hardcore gamer. I've always had pretty good peices in my game box but I've found spending big money on sound cards to be the biggest waste of money. Currently all my sound cards are onboard audio. The Abit motherboard I have in my HTPC has a spdif output so I don't have to worry about digital to analog converts and the like. The soundcard basically is just passing the audio thru to my receiver. I think you only need to worry about the quality or $$$ of a card when you want to use its analog outputs, or perhaps some other hardware feature that again, I've found to be a waste.

Briefly on the AVR, I'd say you are right. With a HTPC you will be doing most everything in one box so video switching is pointless feature on the AVR. In your case you may have to keep the cable companies box, but you could just have it and the HTPC connect the video directly to the TV and just send the audio to the AVR. Get a Harmoy remote (if you don't already have something similar) and call it good.

Here is a link for a bundle to get OS, DVD decoder, remote and SDTV tuner together as an example.


Otherwise I'd say order those parts and get that HTPC running!

Re: HTPC...again
JasonB #148278 11/08/06 06:14 AM
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Another question....

SACD, and DVD-A? Is this possible with a HTPC? Seems silly to have a uni-player for nothing more than playback of about 12 SACD/DVD-A discs I own.

Re: HTPC...again
INANE #148279 11/08/06 06:37 AM
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The hardware choices are based on the fact that this box will be as much for gaming as a HTPC. World of Warcraft in glorious Axiom 5.1 on a 60" sceen should be sweeeeeeeet.

The CL X-Fi ExtremeMusic card that I planned on would work if I got one of these cables, right?

This sounds pretty cool too...pricey though.

Re: HTPC...again
spiffnme #148280 11/08/06 07:19 AM
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Quote:

This sounds pretty cool too...pricey though.




Wow, I didn't even know they had a new one out yet... and quite pricy for a sound card... Oh well, you spot it, you bought it. Then you can tell everyone else if its as good as it claims


____________________________ M22 VP100 QS8 EP500 Yamaha HTR-5960
Re: HTPC...again
JasonB #148281 11/08/06 11:48 PM
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hmmm...found a couple new vidya cards geared towards the HTPC market. Whatdayathink?

Gigabyte GV-NX76G256HI-RH
ASUS EAX1900XT/HTVDP/256M

Re: HTPC...again
spiffnme #148282 11/09/06 12:20 AM
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Hey Craig,

You know I'm NOT the alpha geek around here, so I'll just offer a couple thoughts based on my own similar experience.

I think that fanless Gigabyte card looks pretty cool. I have a similar, lower end one and it works like a champ.

I don't know how concerned you are about silence, but having the video card be fanless can't hurt. My impression (albeit with smaller drives) is that Western Digital drives are significantly noisier than similar models from Seagate and Samsung.

Does your motherboard have a coaxial audio output?

Fun project!


bibere usque ad hilaritatem
Re: HTPC...again
tomtuttle #148283 11/09/06 02:28 AM
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Some of the WD drives now have what they call "WhisperDrive™ and SoftSeek™ technologies". This particular drive got a thumbs up from silentpc.com

As far as the video card goes, it simply needs to be powerful enough to play video games at 1920x1080 resolution. I'll be replacing it's hsf with a Zalman which in every report I've read keeps the vidya card super cool and very, very quiet.

The motherboard...hmm...lemme download the manual...

OK...I'm even more confused now. The motherboard has both a coaxial RCA digital output as well as an optical digital output! I didn't even think to check on this, as I've never heard of a mb having these features. I guess you actually do get what you pay for sometimes.

If I'm understanding this right, I just wasted $63.50 on my soundcard, as this motherboard can pass all my digital audio signals directly out to my receiver, right?

sh$t.

Re: HTPC...again
spiffnme #148284 11/09/06 04:45 AM
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Quote:


The motherboard...hmm...lemme download the manual...

OK...I'm even more confused now. The motherboard has both a coaxial RCA digital output as well as an optical digital output! I didn't even think to check on this, as I've never heard of a mb having these features. I guess you actually do get what you pay for sometimes.

If I'm understanding this right, I just wasted $63.50 on my soundcard, as this motherboard can pass all my digital audio signals directly out to my receiver, right?

sh$t.




Yup... thats what I did with my rig and it works great... optical SPDIF right off the mobo.


Re: HTPC...again
spiffnme #148285 11/09/06 04:51 AM
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Quote:

Another question....

SACD, and DVD-A? Is this possible with a HTPC? Seems silly to have a uni-player for nothing more than playback of about 12 SACD/DVD-A discs I own.




My friends and I have not found a definative answer to that, but our guess is no. Would most likely be to a lack of licensing and software to do it.

Not having personally ever used a SACD or a DVD-A but only DTS and DD... at least the DTS music disks I've played sound terrific, I can't imagine it is even noticable. I've read some reviews of DVD-A's were the folks say the DTS track on the same album sounded better than the actual DVD-A. But I guess if you've invested in those albums you'd want to be able to play em.

Re: HTPC...again
INANE #148286 11/09/06 05:37 PM
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Pardon the endless questions...

Aren't most games encoded with EAX audio, rather than Dolby Digital and/or DTS? If that's the case, how with a HTPC would you get that EAX gaming audio decoded? If I simply pass the digital signal through the mb out to my reciever, the receiver doesn't know what EAX is. If I use a sound card, again, if I use the digital output the receiver isn't going to know what the EAX signal is, so I'd need to then use the multi-channel outputs from the card and purchse mini-plug to RCA cables and run all those cables out of the card and into the receiver's multi-channel analog inputs, no? If I did that, all Dolby Digital, DTS and EAX decoding would happen on the card and the receiver would simply receive the individual analog channel signals. Correct? (Much like you have to do with SACD and DVD-A)

Sounds like a pain in the tushy.

Re: HTPC...again
spiffnme #148287 11/10/06 04:14 AM
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Sent ya a PM, I think I covered all of that.

HTPC...update
spiffnme #148288 12/06/06 07:28 AM
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Update...

I've been buying this thing piece-meal. Here's where I'm at so far.

Purchased
motherboard: Intel 975XBX2KR
ram: 2GB Corsair 800Mhz DDR2
audio: Creative X-Fi Extreme Music
storage: Western Digital 500Gb
cooling: Zalman
ps: Corsair 620 watt Power Supply

Remaining to Buy
Video Card
Case
CPU
Optical Drive

I’ve found another video card that I think may be the best bet so far.

GIGABYTE GV-NX795T512H-RH GeForce 7950GT 512MB
It should have PLENTY of power for games, and already has the Zalman heatsink to keep it quiet and cool.




The case I wanted couldn’t accept optical drives with full width face plates, so I’m leaning towards this one now…
Silverstone Grandia GD01-MX



CPU…wanting to future proof myself as much as possible… Intel E6600 2.4Ghz Core 2 Duo It should run any game I throw at it for the next few years, while at the same time run nice and cool and quiet.



Lastly the optical drive. Unless someone talks me out of it, I’m planning on getting the Sony Blu-Ray drive.

With an HDCP compatible video card, hooked up directly to my tv, I shouldn't have any problems watching 1080p movies with this, yeah?

When they finally come out with an internal HD-DVD drive, I’ll have a free 5.25” bay ready and waiting in the Silverstone case.

I’m still hoping to sell my Rotel amp and processor, and replace it with a Denon AVR-3806. I’ll need the space in my audio cabinet for the HTPC, and I should come out ahead in the deal, so the extra money can go towards buying some of the gear.

Regarding my Denon 2900. If this HTPC works out to be as great as I’m hoping, the only reason for me to keep the 2900 would be to play SACD and DVD-A’s. I definitely do not want to lose that ability, but perhaps I could sell the 2900 and replace it with a smaller, less costly unit? Any suggestions?

Re: HTPC...update
spiffnme #148289 12/06/06 04:40 PM
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I hate to keep raining (it sounds pretty good other than this!), but I would be cautious about Zalman's claims of quiet cooling. I've used their stuff repeatedly, and it's really not all that quiet. Usually their idea of quiet seems to be "take a regular fan and plug in a resistor so it runs slower and doesn't cool nearly as well."

I did see a review of a video card that performed well in games and had a passive heatsink. Here's a link to newegg, here's the review.


I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!
Re: HTPC...update
spiffnme #148290 12/06/06 05:49 PM
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All that, and for *only* $2633 plus shipping.

Will be a nice system when you have it all up and running.


Farewell - June 4, 2020
Re: HTPC...update
Ken.C #148291 12/06/06 10:02 PM
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That fanless 7950GT is the other card I was considering. Numerous reviews on Newegg complained of it getting extremely hot though. ???

Re: HTPC...update
nickbuol #148292 12/06/06 10:05 PM
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I never said it was going to be cheap.

Re: HTPC...update
spiffnme #148293 12/06/06 10:29 PM
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Ah. OK, well, trust the reviews over someone who just skimmed an article. Have you looked at http://www.silentpcreview.com?


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Re: HTPC...update
Ken.C #148294 12/07/06 04:48 AM
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I bet a 7950 with no fan runs hot. Prolly not the best bet for gaming. Granted a 7950 is way overkill for a HTPC but you want to play games...

I think the list looks pretty decent. Sorry to see a blu-ray player there thou.



Re: HTPC...update
Ken.C #148295 12/07/06 08:09 AM
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yeah...silentpcreview is where I got the suggestions for the WD 500 gig drive. It was there or some other "silent pc" website that was reviewing the Zalman VGA hsf as well. They got some pretty amazing cooling with the Zalman fan vs. the stock fan on their video card, and it was half as loud. ?? Sounded good to me.

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