 Here's some interesting stuff. . .
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Click here to read Audioholics third annual tour of Axiom Audio.
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"Nothin' up my sleeve. . ." --Bullwinkle J. Moose
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Re: Here's some interesting stuff. . .
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::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::
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Re: Here's some interesting stuff. . .
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axiomite
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Yep, the new amp looks real nice. Also the clean room for making the Vassalo series speakers is much bigger and fancier than I expected. Did anyone else find Gene's explanation of power factor misleading ? PF is only one of the things which affect the amount of power you can get out of an outlet -- the other is amplifier efficiency. I thought Gene sort of implied that if you had a 90% power factor you could get 90% of the power potential of the outlet into your speakers, which AFAIK is not the case. Power factor affects how much power you can get into the amplifier without overloading the house wiring; efficiency is how much of the power going into the amp makes it into the speakers rather than being dissipated as heat, noise, or the blazing light off that little LED in the corner 
M60ti, VP180, QS8, M2ti, EP500, PC-Plus 20-39
M5HP, M40ti, Sierra-1
LFR1100 active, ADA1500-4 and -8
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Re: Here's some interesting stuff. . .
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One thing that just occurred to me... they're gonna be doing a lot more fiddling with the speakers (and maybe new ones!) if they went to the trouble of building an anechoic chamber... Maybe I'm just slow.
I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!
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Re: Here's some interesting stuff. . .
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axiomite
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axiomite
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Nah, Ian just wants a quiet place to eat lunch and work.
M60ti, VP180, QS8, M2ti, EP500, PC-Plus 20-39
M5HP, M40ti, Sierra-1
LFR1100 active, ADA1500-4 and -8
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Re: Here's some interesting stuff. . .
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connoisseur
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connoisseur
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The annual tour is always an interesting read. Thank you Sean.
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Re: Here's some interesting stuff. . .
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I wonder if they will ever manufacture an amp or monoblocks that poor guys like me can afford?  I'm pretty sure I won't get the sign off from my wife on this bad boy.
M80s VP180 4xM22ow 4xM3ic EP600 2xEP350
AnthemAVM60 Outlaw7700 EmoA500 Epson5040UB FluanceRT85
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Re: Here's some interesting stuff. . .
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I know the feeling.
On the other hand, I keep reminding myself that I never even turn up the receiver past -10 (and that's pretty extreme circumstances).
I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!
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Re: Here's some interesting stuff. . .
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axiomite
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axiomite
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I have never seen Axiom invest a lot of effort and then only make one product with it. Once the new amp is shipping I imagine there will be spinoffs. At least I hope so
M60ti, VP180, QS8, M2ti, EP500, PC-Plus 20-39
M5HP, M40ti, Sierra-1
LFR1100 active, ADA1500-4 and -8
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Re: Here's some interesting stuff. . .
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connoisseur
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connoisseur
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Great point John, AFL! 
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Re: Here's some interesting stuff. . .
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What does that mean agai... oh, never mind... 
I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!
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Re: Here's some interesting stuff. . .
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newbie
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newbie
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Quote:
Did anyone else find Gene's explanation of power factor misleading ? PF is only one of the things which affect the amount of power you can get out of an outlet -- the other is amplifier efficiency. I thought Gene sort of implied that if you had a 90% power factor you could get 90% of the power potential of the outlet into your speakers, which AFAIK is not the case.
Power factor affects how much power you can get into the amplifier without overloading the house wiring; efficiency is how much of the power going into the amp makes it into the speakers rather than being dissipated as heat, noise, or the blazing light off that little LED in the corner
Actually my point about power factor is valid. The power factor of most amps is usually 70-80%. I was trying to convey that the power supply in the Axiom amp is better than most since it can actually deliver closer to the VA rating of the transformer.
This is of course separate from amp efficiency. As you can see this amp can basically dump its entire power supply into 1 channel - an industry first if I am not mistaken.
Cheers;
Gene DellaSala
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Re: Here's some interesting stuff. . .
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It's not an industry first until they ship product.
Not that I don't expect them to, in fact, ship product with this feature.
I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!
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Re: Here's some interesting stuff. . .
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axiomite
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axiomite
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>>I was trying to convey that the power supply in the Axiom amp is better than most since it can actually deliver closer to the VA rating of the transformer. Absolutely, or, as everyone now seems to say here, "AFL!!" The more times I read your article the less sure I became about my interpretation. Oh well... Anyways, it was a great article -- thanks !!
M60ti, VP180, QS8, M2ti, EP500, PC-Plus 20-39
M5HP, M40ti, Sierra-1
LFR1100 active, ADA1500-4 and -8
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Re: Here's some interesting stuff. . .
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There was an article? I guess I was distracted by the pictures.
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Re: Here's some interesting stuff. . .
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Yes, excellent article by Gene. I was actually more interested in reading about the anechoic chamber and microphone corrections that apparently will allow extending the accuracy of the measurements down to about 20Hz. Ian has reported here in the past that wedges of that size in the chamber only allow accurate anechoic measurements down to about 85Hz.
-----------------------------------
Enjoy the music, not the equipment.
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Re: Here's some interesting stuff. . .
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axiomite
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axiomite
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I read the article differently -- that the combination of chamber measurements and measurements on the pole allowed accurate readings down below 20 Hz... Then again I was very tired when I read the article
M60ti, VP180, QS8, M2ti, EP500, PC-Plus 20-39
M5HP, M40ti, Sierra-1
LFR1100 active, ADA1500-4 and -8
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Re: Here's some interesting stuff. . .
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Quote:
I read the article differently -- that the combination of chamber measurements and measurements on the pole allowed accurate readings down below 20 Hz...
Then again I was very tired when I read the article
Get some sleep and re-read
What Axiom does is measure subs outdoors on the pole, then they remeasure them in the chamber. They then create a correction curve so that the chamber results are accurate down to 20Hz within a dB or so to what they measured on the pole. Pretty cool stuff!
Last edited by Audioholics; 09/30/06 03:00 PM.
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Re: Here's some interesting stuff. . .
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axiomite
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Quote:
The annual tour is always an interesting read. Thank you Sean.
Figured it was about time I contributed something to the forum besides a dumb joke!
***********
"Nothin' up my sleeve. . ." --Bullwinkle J. Moose
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Re: Here's some interesting stuff. . .
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axiomite
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Quote:
I wonder if they will ever manufacture an amp or monoblocks that poor guys like me can afford?
Whoa, no kidding. I must have missed the price the first read through. Maybe if I work overtime for a whole year. . .
***********
"Nothin' up my sleeve. . ." --Bullwinkle J. Moose
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Re: Here's some interesting stuff. . .
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Holy jeebus! That is... yes, indeed, a price. Yow.
*also missed it first time through.
I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!
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Re: Here's some interesting stuff. . .
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axiomite
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I think the question is how much would you have to spend, and how many boxes would you have to buy, to get the same performance and 700w/channel headroom from existing products.
I think Axiom is doing the right thing bringing the "no compromises" product out first though, even if it is "OMG!" expensive. One of Axiom's great strengths is making really nice products at a decent price; I doubt Ian will throw that out the window with the electronics products.
M60ti, VP180, QS8, M2ti, EP500, PC-Plus 20-39
M5HP, M40ti, Sierra-1
LFR1100 active, ADA1500-4 and -8
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Re: Here's some interesting stuff. . .
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Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club shareholder in the making
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Yeah, I figured we'd see different amplifier options after this big-guns debut product, but I keep having to exercise my patience with everything I want anymore. I forgot how to be content with little things.
One thing I still haven't found in my lazy LAZY research is whether the channels in these multichannel amplifiers can run at different impedances, or do they all have to run at the same? I would think that with the variety of speaker options, they'd have to let each channel run at its own selectable impedance, but I still haven't read that anywhere.
C.V.
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Re: Here's some interesting stuff. . .
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local
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Let's see, I can get a new amplifer or a nice used motorcycle for the same price. Pretty easy decision for me.
Perhaps they will come out with a two channel version that is a lot more affordable for us working slobs.
M80ti's, VP150, QS8's
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Re: Here's some interesting stuff. . .
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It's not a matter of selecting an impedence; you're just presenting a load to the amp. It doesn't really care if all the loads are the same or not.
I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!
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Re: Here's some interesting stuff. . .
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I guess I don't get why a certain wattage rating is attached to each impedance, then. Obviously I wouldn't want to run that amp to drive one or two M80s at 4 ohms, because that's rated at 700 watts, whereas the max for the M80 is 400 watts? Instead of impedance, would there be a selection for how many channels are being driven? That's all. I'm just wondering how the amp knows the maximum amount of power it should be sending on to the speakers, and why isn't it possible to have different caps on that depending on the channel.
C.V.
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Re: Here's some interesting stuff. . .
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axiomite
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Ahh, this one is (probably) easy. The amplifier power supply has a certain voltage. That voltage is enough to give you 350 watts into 8 ohms. If you connect a load with half the impedence (eg. 4 ohms) then in theory you get twice the power, eg. 700 watts because power = voltage (same) times current (twice as much). This doesn't work for most amps because they can't put out twice as much current. The new Axiom amp seems to have no trouble putting out twice as much current (into 4 ohms) or 4 times as much current (into 2 ohms).
In other words, every receiver and amplifier on the market will put out twice as much power into 4 ohms as 8 ohms unless it can't handle the increased current draw.
Most can't handle the increased current draw.
This is why only a few brands are recommended for use with M80s -- those are the ones which can handle the additional current that gets fed into a 4 ohm load vs. an 8 ohm load.
M60ti, VP180, QS8, M2ti, EP500, PC-Plus 20-39
M5HP, M40ti, Sierra-1
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Re: Here's some interesting stuff. . .
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C.V., the reason that an amplifier has a different wattage rating when driving different impedance speakers is simply because, as John B. points out, when the impedance of the speaker is lower the amp can put out more power, so there's a number given which was measured when it was tested in the lab with the lower impedance load.
An amp has a given amount of gain that it applies to the signal coming in from a CD player, etc. The stronger the incoming signal(which can be raised or lowered depending on the volume control setting), the more power is output; it doesn't matter what the capability of the speaker to handle power is. Keep in mind that regardless of what the maximum power rating of an amp is, a comfortably loud average listening level needs an output of only about 1 watt and even on brief peaks the maximum power capacity of a very powerful amp will probably never be used.
-----------------------------------
Enjoy the music, not the equipment.
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Re: Here's some interesting stuff. . .
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I appreciate the responses! I'll learn something yet.
C.V.
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