Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Technical Questions M22 for recording studio?

Hey all,

Along with my home theatre I will be also building a drum room/recording studio down stairs.

I am planning to outfit the theatre first with some audio gear prior to purchasing anything for the studio. With that said, I will be able to test the M22s in the studio as I will be using them for the theatre.

My question is if any of you know of any recording studios that use the M22s as studio monitors? Or the M3s for that matter?

If so, how do they like them and do they compare to the likes of lower end Mackies with internal amps?

On a side note, a question for Axiom: Axiom has done alot of research and has been involved with the NRC, have you ever thought of developing a speaker with an internal amp for studio use?

Robb,

As a musician myself, I'm currently in the works of putting in a new recording studio, once my theater room gets done. New house ya know, got to do all this stuff all over again.

Anyways, I plan on running M22's. I know Aldo Nova uses M3's in his studio, or at least he was.

In my opinion it really boils down to what you prefer to hear, or how you like your sound. As I'm sure you know, the sound characteristics of the M22's and M3's are quite different. If you're looking for the most accurate in the reproduction, then my personal vote goes to the M22's. That said, the M3's are sweet too and would work extremelly well.

Hope this helps a little.

I do want an all around speaker. But the truth is that the predominant grenre being recorded will be R&B and Hip Hop.

I know that the M3 has a lower response, but will that response be deceptive to the actual recording?

On the flip side, the M22 have lack in the lower end (so I hear), so will that be deceptive as well?

Like I said before, I would love for Axiom to develop a studio monitor bookshelf with an internal amp, with all the technology they are involved with and developing, i wouldn't be suprised to see a stellar product from them that can compete with the likes of Mackie.

I find that photo mildly terrifying.

Attack of the leather! Run!

It is a little disturbing, isnt it? haha

Bray did some photoshop mockups with a few forum members in that leather suit. Really funny stuff the first time I saw it.
What happened to Aldo Nova? Unfortunately the photos won't load.

>>On the flip side, the M22 have lack in the lower end (so I hear), so will that be deceptive as well?

In a moment of confusion, I once downloaded all the frequency response charts from Soundstage and overlaid them on top of each other to get a better understanding of how all the Axiom models compared. The results were surprising. The M22 actually puts out a bit *more* output at most frequencies below 100 Hz :

- M2 is flat to about 80-90 then drops like a stone

- M3 bumps up quite a bit and then drops off fairly quickly

- M22 is completely flat then drops off less quickly than either M2 or M3... or maybe it drops partway and levels off for a while, I forget...

Anyways, apparently the M3 *sounds* like it has a lot more bass because of the slight bump in the 100-150 Hz range, but in practice the M22 is very close. I was surprised how close the M3s and M60s sounded for casual listening...

I'm glad I don't have to choose reference speakers -- when I look at all the crappy stuff people normally use to listen to music... it seems like the kind of decision-making that would lead a rational person to despair.

Robb, as John B. has indicated, any reports that you may have read about the bass response of the M22s may not be well-informed. The M3s certainly don't have greater bass extension; the slightly bumped-up M3 response in the upper bass lends what some consider to be more "fullness" in the bass, but it results from slightly overemphasizing fundamentals in the 100-150Hz area and likewise making 50-75Hz tones sound more prominant by emphasizing their 2nd harmonics at 100-150Hz.

My M22s, with room reinforcement, measure very flat with test tones down to about 60Hz, still very strong at 50Hz, and greatly reduced, but still usable, at 40Hz. I'd think that they'd serve very well as studio monitors.

Remembering that mastering on Axioms may lead to recordings that sound really dull on most end-users speakers...

The same way my brother learned (when he was younger) doing a final mix-down with his whiz-bang Grado headphones wasn't a good idea... on anything else, there was nothing worthwhile below the mids.

I do like the idea of powered Axiom monitors for computer use. I have Edirol MA-20D micro nearfield monitors on two computers at work, because they're more compact and less pricey than M22s with 2 channel amps.

Bren R.

Sutter - not saying it's a BAD idea... just to make sure that the recording also sounds good on the average person's thuddy, muddy, and uh, gruddy Aw3s0mE Brand Ster-E-O 'n a Box speakers too.

Bren R.

>>just to make sure that the recording also sounds good on the average person's thuddy, muddy, and uh, gruddy Aw3s0mE Brand Ster-E-O 'n a Box speakers too.

Well, this would be the case with any high end studio monitor used for mastering. It is always common practice to make a mix, then try it in your car, your friends sterio, on your TV speakers with a cd player...

Anything that you can get your hands on to ensure the the mix is done well.

My first experience mixing myself was taking 2 on-stage monitors (used for vocal monitors during a performance, not the best speaker for mastering) and mixing a hop hop song.

Since the monitors have really crappy response to bass, almost not even there, the final mix was actually distorting my car sterio.

When I told a recording friend of mine what I mastered it on, to say the least, he laughed in my face!


John and John,

Thanks for your input, JonhK, do you have any pics of your setup that I would be able to take a look at? Are you wall mounting your M22s?

Hi all,

I recall the first time I toured some big studios in Toronto, and lots of them had these wretched little Auratone speakers perched on each end of the console. I wonder if they are still around? They simulated the sound of a typical portable or car radio of that time. ('60s, '70s).

Then the annoying Yamaha NS-10 found its way into lots of studios, usually with kleenex taped to the tweeters to reduce the high-frequency output. I've never figured out why that Yamaha became popular with the studio crowd.

I've known about Mackie powered monitors for years but I've never heard them. I just spent a weekend in Woodstock, NY, and toured Levon Helm's recording facility there. The recording engineer used the Yamahas, a pair of Dynaudio models (small, with dual woofers and a tweeter in the center, like our VP centers) and a powered system I'd never heard of. He said he used all three and would be open to trying some Axioms when I suggested it.

By the way, Levon Helm and his various band-members and backup singers were in great form.

As to Axiom getting into powered monitors, it's unlikely at this time. Powered monitors tend to sell very poorly to the consumer market, and the pro market is a very big undertaking.

Not wall mounted, Robb. Mid-woofer cones about 1 1/2', 2 1/2', and 3 1/2' from three nearest room boundaries.

Alan,

Thanks for the feedback, I think the M22s will be fine studio monitors. Not sure about mastering though, but its always nice to try!

Now to my next question, I want to get a cheap amp that will really only be used for the M22s. Can any of you suggest one?

Oddly, just saw the NS-10/Genelec pairing again yesterday... it's the Genelec 1031. A Google shows the 1531 was the US model number on the CBM C2N - the Commodore VIC-20 datasette. Oops. Too many numbers in my head.

Bren R.

I use M22's as "near field monitors." They are amazing for that job.

Also, the M22's, in my opinion, are much better for M3's if you were doing studio work because the M22's are unforgiving on poorly recorded material. If it's recorded well, it will sound great on M22's. If it isn't, well it will sound like crap, or not as good as all the other well-recorded stuff.

Yea, I literally sit on top of my HSU STF-2 and maybe 2-3 feet from my axioms. It is a great experience. Sometimes it can get a little fatiguing listening to the M22's at louder volumes so close, mostly because I think your ears (at my sitting level with my office chairs my ears are at the exact same height as the M22' tweeters) will pick up the tweeters before the woofers because they are just a little closer. Sometimes it helps to back up a couple feet for me to really enjoy a song and higher volumes. Other than that, they are GLORIOUS for listening.

Yes, if I had to make a recommendation for placement, do a perfect triangle with the speakers and you. For instance, I am 3 feet away from each of the M22's, so they are 3 feet away from each other.

Also, I don't know if any of you other guys do this, but at that listening distance I use the M22's cabinet design to easily make the listening angles of the M22's the same. Since they cabinet shape has the 2 sides tapering in like so: /_\ (view from top of the M22). I just align the outside side of the M22 so that it is perpendicular to the desk or whatever it is on, do the same for the other M22, and they are angled exactly the same. I find it quite handy especially because my M22's are moved around a lot in my room switching from movie to computer setups.

If you are going to use this in a recording studio, you probably are going to be running the sound from your computer. In which case, I HIGHLY recommend you do not get a sound card and use the analogue output from it. Rather, get a soundcard that has SPDIF (or a digital out) and get a receiver that takes digital (or coaxial) input, and the sound quality will be leaps and bounds better than what the analogue quality would be, especially from certain sound cards.

If you really want to go for a clean audio route, get an external DAC (digital to audio converter) which will plug in to the USB port of your computer and convert the audio to a clean digital signal. They are quite popular among headphone enthusiasts, so you probably will find the better ones and good opinions on some if you looked on those types of websites. www.headfi.com is a great forum to start.

Good luck!

very interesting danmagicman7

I work in recording production and maybe M22+ep500 con be a mastering setup with low cost

Have you tried this?

cheers

There are probably some external devices meant for professional recording. I dunno, google is your friend

I found a midi card on musiciansfriend.com. Hopefully they will ship to canada, haven't checked into them that much.

The card has gotten rave reviews, and has optical out. Man am I ever looking forward to having a home studio with M3 monitors. Especially with drum beats, the M3s will sound awsome.

-Hutz

I recommend the MOTU Traveler (http://www.motu.com/products/motuaudio/traveler) as an external Firewire audio device. It can output and input pretty much anything you need. Perhaps a little on the expensive side, but it's worth it.

Personally, I just use the built-in optical in/out on my G5. :P

I think I am going the route of an external USB interface that has MIDI I/O and also 2 XLR inputs if I want to record a single mic (for a vocalist or something).

It has two 1/4" outputs for audio, which I need to get an amp that has 1/4" inputs and 5-way binding posts for outputs (to my M3s). The only problem is, I can't find a decent one for less than $300 CAD. Any suggestions?