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Re: Replace old sub or upgrade from M22's to M60/M
PeterChenoweth #152272 12/01/06 04:25 AM
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Your wife sounds awesome. Maybe you should go for the EP500 and when she falls in love with it, you'll get the go ahead to order another one. Then the first one's yours because she'll want her choice of color. Maybe she'll even go for the EP600 just to have a bigger one then you .


____________________________ M22 VP100 QS8 EP500 Yamaha HTR-5960
Re: Replace old sub or upgrade from M22's to M60/M80?
PeterChenoweth #152273 12/18/06 07:50 PM
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Just an update for anyone following this thread...

My wife and I both agree that the key problem with our home theater is a distinct lack of lower midrange warmth. A prime example might be in a Yo Yo Ma cello solo, where the mid and higher notes are fine (beautiful!), but the low notes sound weak and hollow. Contrary to most of the advice here, I really don't know how a better sub, such as the SVS or the EP's, would really help much because honestly we want full-range sound from our front mains. Some of our listening is done from SACD's, and they just seem to be engineered to be played on full-range speakers.

So with that in mind, we put together a collection of songs that illustrate what is missing at home, and hit several higher-end home theater shops to demo various speakers. Staying in the $1,000-$1,500 range, we listened to various speakers from B&W, Klipsch, Martin Logan, Deftech, Vienna Acoustics, and Dynaudio. We tried as best we could to listen paired with receivers similar to my own. We tried to be as objective as possible, or as is possible when weighing in on something as subjective as sound quality.

To make a long story short, the B&W 603 and 604 came out on top. B&W's definitely have a warmth and presence about them that our m22's are seriously lacking. However, this is where it gets complicated. I can't honestly compare $400 bookshelves to $1,000 - $1,400 floor standings. My wife really liked the sound of the 604's and probably would have walked out with a pair, except that both B&W stores were out of stock and couldn't promise anything for at least 2 weeks. I convinced her to wait and let me do further research on the M60/M80 before proceeding. So has anyone here been able to A/B the M60/M80 vs the B&W 603/604 speakers?


M80v2 | VP150v2 | QS8v2
SVS Pci+ 20-39
Emotiva UMC-1 & LPA-1
M22ti + T-Amp, in the Office
Re: Replace old sub or upgrade from M22's to M60/M
PeterChenoweth #152274 12/18/06 07:53 PM
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I think you may want to look at the M50s. I know what you are describing (although I usually find that it is mitigated by a good sub).

EDIT: Just looked at your original post. Get a good sub, and make sure your crossovers are appropriate (ie, 80 Hz).

Last edited by kcarlile; 12/18/06 07:54 PM.
Re: Replace old sub or upgrade from M22's to M60/M
Ken.C #152275 12/18/06 08:13 PM
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Another vote for the sub option.... hmmm.

I just can't seem to wrap my ears around the fact that a better sub would improve the low mid-range. I have no doubts that a SVS, HSU, or EP500 sub would offer more power to the LFE, but I don't need that. My current sub already causes my wife's china to bounce around and the cat to run out of the room at about 1/2 volume. So a more musical and linear sub such as the EP500 would really help the lower midrange enough to give me that warmth? I mean, obviously there's a lot of experience here saying that is the answer. Hard to dispute that!

Of note, my sub is set to bypass and my receiver's X-over set at 80hz.

Last edited by PeterChenoweth; 12/18/06 08:15 PM.

M80v2 | VP150v2 | QS8v2
SVS Pci+ 20-39
Emotiva UMC-1 & LPA-1
M22ti + T-Amp, in the Office
Re: Replace old sub or upgrade from M22's to M60/M
PeterChenoweth #152276 12/18/06 08:26 PM
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I will recommend the M50s or M60s and the Hsu STF 3. The price of both these units would be around the price of the B&Ws. I have heard the 604s and was not to impressed. I would expect the combo mentioned above would be far superior to the 603s and 604s.

I wouldn't discount what a good sub can do for your music. Not to be mean but your Kenwood sub is not even in the same leauge as the other subs mentioned. I'm sure it can boom boom away but that's not all what a good sub is about.


Rick


"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud

Re: Replace old sub or upgrade from M22's to M60/M
Wid #152277 12/18/06 08:46 PM
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Interesting that you weren't impressed with the 604's. That speaks well to what the M60's sound like, considering that I think the 604's sound pretty good! And no offense taken at saying the Kenwood isn't in the same league. I know it's not. That's a BIG part of my problem, I don't know what a GOOD sub sounds like, and I've never heard the M60's in person.

You are correct. An outlet pair of M60's and a STF-3 would be less than the 604's. I hadn't *really* thought about that. Awfully tempting...

Quote:

I will recommend the M50s or M60s and the Hsu STF 3. The price of both these units would be around the price of the B&Ws. I have heard the 604s and was not to impressed. I would expect the combo mentioned above would be far superior to the 603s and 604s.

I wouldn't discount what a good sub can do for your music. Not to be mean but your Kenwood sub is not even in the same leauge as the other subs mentioned. I'm sure it can boom boom away but that's not all what a good sub is about.




Last edited by PeterChenoweth; 12/18/06 08:48 PM.

M80v2 | VP150v2 | QS8v2
SVS Pci+ 20-39
Emotiva UMC-1 & LPA-1
M22ti + T-Amp, in the Office
Re: Replace old sub or upgrade from M22's to M60/M
PeterChenoweth #152278 12/18/06 08:53 PM
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So get the STF-3 first. See what you think of that, and then upgrade the mains if you still want to. Heh, who am I kidding...


I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!
Re: Replace old sub or upgrade from M22's to M60/M
PeterChenoweth #152279 12/18/06 10:09 PM
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Peter, (hearsay alert) most often, I hear those who have heard both, say the M60s sound very much like the B&W 703s, at a much more attractive price. Having returned my M22s for the M60s due to a desire for more mid-upper bass (I was using a sub with both), I can tell you that I found the change satified my desire. YMMV.


Jack

"People generally quarrel because they cannot argue." - G. K. Chesterton
Re: Replace old sub or upgrade from M22's to M60/M
PeterChenoweth #152280 12/19/06 12:46 AM
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Find a store that sells Paradigm Studio 100's. They sound closer to the M80's than any other speaker I've auditioned. The 703's are close, but lack the mid range and low end of the M80's. The Paradigms have a tad more low end than the 80's but they're pretty close on the mid range. neither is exact to the 80's, but close enough to give you a pretty good idea of what to expect.

Haven't heard the M60's.

Outlaw also makes a pretty nice, reasonably priced sub. I've got the LFM 1 and enjoy it. I think Outlaw has done some improvements to it over the past year too.

Re: Replace old sub or upgrade from M22's to M60/M
michael_d #152281 12/19/06 01:12 AM
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Quote:

Outlaw also makes a pretty nice, reasonably priced sub. I've got the LFM 1 and enjoy it. I think Outlaw has done some improvements to it over the past year too.






No doubt the Outlaw sub is a nice one; it is basically a STF 3. At the price difference, the Hsu being $100 cheaper, it's really no contest as to which is a better value.


Rick


"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud

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