Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Stereo Question About Tubes and Tubed Gear

Alright, so my YS-Audio Symphonies Plus preamplifier arrived in the mail yesterday. It's a very nice unit, great soundstaging and synergy throughout, it's gotten rid of that high frequency annoyance I was talking about previously; but now I have a different problem.

I hear this constant hiss, even when a input source is not plugged in coming from the preamp. It's very subtle, something you would hear on a cheap stereo with the volume about half way up to maximum. But compared to the previous gear I was using, which was a mackie mixer which was dead silent it's rather annoying.

Is this one of the 'characteristics' of tube designs or is it the preamp I'm using? Someone suggested replacing the recitifier tube and that didn't do anything either.

Also, I should note that moving the volume or balance control has no impact on the noise.

Hi Intricate,

The background hiss is just one of the intrinsic traits of tube gear, which has inherently more thermal noise than well-designed solid-state equipment. As you noted, most good solid-state gear is dead-quiet, unless you have an extra gain stage like a moving-coil transistor phono preamp. There is so much gain in the latter that it makes thermal transistor noise audible.

Late1960s and early 1970s transistor stuff often had audible residual hiss, but designs have greatly improved over the decades since.

Regards,

Alan and BrenR;
Thanks for the quick replies.

Well, I've used several preamps in the past; a H/K citation twenty-four, a carver (I don't recall the model number) a rotel RC-970BX, and I sold all of them because it all sounded pretty much the same... just with a little bit more or less THD.

And that's why I was using my friend's mackie in the meantime; but with the music I hear from my system with this preamp, the pluck of a guitar string on Eric Clapton's cds, or the resonant voice of Allison Krauss, I'm simply amazed.

I actually opened the unit up, fiddled around with the tubes a little; they have these metal caps to dampen microphonics I guess, one of them wasn't seated properly and it seems to sound better now.

Intricate,

Glad you got it sounding good. As I read these posts, I remember reading a study on pyscho-acoustics that found that when there is slight residual background hiss present on music recordings, like the kind you described or with tape or vinyl, many listeners actually "hear" more high-frequency content or detail. It's a strange phenomenon.

Or maybe it's just older audiophiles who grew up hearing music with background hiss present--it was a given for years in all recordings and of course vinyl too--so that when they hear the identical music with no hiss in the background, they describe it as "lacking detail."

I once suggested this to one of my regular record reviewers in Canada who had an enormous collection of vinyl that he always described as having more detail than CDs, and he became quite angry. . .

Regards,

Actually Alan, I'm 19 years old and I think that vinyl sounds better than cds as well. I can't figure out why but it just seems to be more pleasing to the ears, and there seems to be more treble-like detail.

Which reminds me, I should post pictures of my setup. But that'll have to wait, I let my bestfriend borrom my camera and he's in Italy.

Alan, I have to tell you though, the M80ti's are good musical speakers. Kudos for designing and selling them.

Vinyl... always with the vinyl...

Why doesn't my favorite format... *pause* *CHA-CHUNK* *pause* get any love?

Bren R.

*Edited to save myself from emberassment*

hehe.

Edited because I'm a really nice guy.

Shh... kcarlie, maybe they never saw.

I was thinking of the old tape cartridges before VHS.

As for 8 Track, I've never had an 8 Track player or any 8 Tracks so I can't say how they sound.

Sounds like I missed something good!

Bren R.

Oh, it was quite entertaining. BTW, those old video carts? Beta.

Yes, Beta... that's what they were called.

To be clear... BetaMAX.

Not to be confused with BetaSP, BetaSX, Digi-Beta or any of the professional formats.

Also not to be confused with Porn on Beta, the west-coast, uh, band? that the guys from RantRadio formed. They sound like... the Smiths meets a C64 demo.

Bren R.

You got a new preamp already? Just 3 days ago you were asking about them and, three days later youve got a new preamp in the mail. From Hong Kong? Quick turnaround I reckon!

Well, I had actually ordered the preamp awhile ago. I had posted on the boards speculatively because I wanted to see if I had made the right decision.

Apparantly what I'm hearing now are microphonics, after fixing the sitting of one of the tubes most of it has gone away and it's hardly noticable even if there's no source. I'm quite happy with the results. :>

P.S. I'll post pictures of my system after my buddy comes back from Italy.

Axiom makes some very good speakers. I'm thinking of picking up another pair of M3s (gave my last pairs away) to use with a nice tube system. Although Axiom makes decent speakers, there is an annoying Axiom orthodoxy - promoted by the inhouse know-nothing guru and a gaggle who honk at the mere mention of tube gear or the promotion of any of the Axiom board heresies. The ignorance behind the statement that hiss is inherent in tube components would be just laughably narrow minded and incorrect if it did not issue from Alan Lofft, who speaks for Axiom. We should therefore consider the rest of the mantra of the Axiom orthodoxy -

all cable/interconnects are the same - you should save money and use string

All CD players have the same sound quality, so go to Walmart and find the $20 special with the features you want

All modern, non-defective solid state amps sound the same

There is no such thing as change in sound quality due to "break in" of audio components

Someone in Canada once did a scientific double blind test and proved all of the above propositions forever and to a certainty.

If you think you hear a difference in sound quality due to any of these audio-myths you have demonstrated a neuro/cognitive illusion - don't trust your ears.

If you doubt the absolute incontestible truth of any of the above propositions just ask Alan Lofft or Bren or the other folks around here who have given the Axiom fora their now characteristic aggressively narrow minded know-nothing quality - perhaps one of the reasons there are usually no more than 2 people browsing these once popular discussions.

Anyway, I have 5 systems currently set up, 2 home theater and 3 stereo systems. My favorite for music is a 5 watt per channel SET integrated tube amp and tube output section CD player.

That's not to say that my solid state and digitally amped systems aren't wonderful also, they are ...

So, speaking from experience of enjoying amps which range in price from $30 (not including cost of modifications to T-Amp)up to some nice Parasound 2 channels, I can tell you that I've kept the ones I like, sold the ones that didn't work out and that the only way to judge an amp (or any component) is to live with it for a while. It's either musical or not. Unless defective, it's not in the specs, it's in the sonic quality of the music it reproduces.

JMNSHO

From Wikipedia:

"In Internet terminology, a troll is a person who enters an established community such as an online discussion forum and intentionally tries to cause disruption, often in the form of posting messages that are inflammatory, insulting, or off-topic, with the intent of provoking a reaction from others."

2x6, I'm genuinely sorry you no longer care for this place or the people who frequent it. But, since you don't, one wonders why you bother to come here at all let alone post a diatribe like the one above. Such malice exposes more about your character than it does this forum.

Although I don't post as much as I used to, I've been an Axiom owner and participant on this site for many years. I've never had a bad word to say about Axiom speakers, and have posted both here and on other audio sites about how well some Axioms (especially M3s) play with some tube amps.

Over the years, Alan has described tube gear as "distortion generators" and now tells us that hiss is part and parcel of tube gear as well. I personally consider his comments to be not only incorrect, but ignorant and insulting. Alan is not just another participant on these forums. Alan Lofft speaks for Axiom. Now, I don't know why Axiom would want its spokesperson to alienate folks who love their Axioms and their tube gear as well, but I think Alan has succeeded in that regard.

You may have noticed that folks who bother to post about audio equipment can become fairly attached to components which work for them ... for example, most of the people who post here are pretty passionate about their Axiom speakers. Over the years, some folks who obviously haven't listened to Axioms have made some pretty disparaging comments about these speakers on other sites. Usually, this amounts to people repeating the canard that Axioms are overly bright, or shrill, yadayada, comments for the most part made by people who have never heard Axiom speakers. I've posted my share of positive experiences with Axioms I have owned, in reply.

Here we have Alan who periodically makes pronouncements about tube gear which are equally baseless, but they are made by Axiom's resident audio 'expert.' In my opinion, it doesn't reflect well on Axiom and although his comments seem to attract and please like minded folk (whether they have ever heard tube gear or not) clearly they have alienated at least some folks who disagree.

Just my 2 cents.

----------------------
My Axioms past and present: M2s, M3s, M22s, M50s, QS8s, VP150, Merak M66 Merak MC6H, Merak MC634, Axiom related speakers: Michaura M55s, M66s and M665s.

2x6,

I can't comment on Tube Amps as I've never owned any. I'm curious why your insistant on getting so defensive with Alan, when others on this forum AND other forums have made the same statements. I don't see you trying to give Bren a bad name, when he also confirmed this is common. What is your beef anyway?

+1

I'm ignoring the troll-like tone of this thread, but...

Quote:

---

scatological reference

---

is just a GEM!

Jeez, Jack. Someday I'm gonna make up a reason to head out to Ohio just so I can buy you a beer!

That would be an immeasurable treat.

tube ..... cabal ..... orthodoxy .... cadre ....

Apparently, the Axiom orthodoxy is not in a high enough position to ruffle the mighty analog feathers of the great 2x6. But, woa-ho-ho!, when the mighty Alan doth critically opine on the matter, it becomes the last straw.

Really now, you'd think the man's heart was a tube, the way he flusters and blusters.