 Outlaw B-Stock
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Anybody purchased from their B-Stock deals? Are these like Factory Outlet from Axiom, or refurbished/returns?
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Re: Outlaw B-Stock
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From the little amount that I've read, it *appears* that they are refurbished/returns. I couldn't find an official announcement where it says what condition the b-stock products are. Anyway, whatcha got in mind? 
*Michael*
AV123 Refugee - X-LS Encore, X-Voce, X-Omnis, Elt-Dpa's
Denon AVR-591
Magnavox NB500MGX BDP
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Re: Outlaw B-Stock
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I did find many posts on their forum where people said the B-Stock units seemed to be as good as new. hmmmm What do I have in mind, ummmmm, wellllll, hmmmmm, just a case of upgradeitis I think.  I saw that you were thinking about their products recently also?
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Re: Outlaw B-Stock
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You saw my thread huh?  I was seriously considering the Outlaw 7125 and nearly purchased it. But...after much consideration, I'm leaning towards an LPA-1 from Emotiva. I REALLY like the fact that it is $500 less AND ships free through the end of the year. I recently finished a 30day trial using the Emotiva BPA-1's. All I can say is that there is a difference(for good) in music and movie playback. Subtle, but noticeable. I like what I'm hearing. 
*Michael*
AV123 Refugee - X-LS Encore, X-Voce, X-Omnis, Elt-Dpa's
Denon AVR-591
Magnavox NB500MGX BDP
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Re: Outlaw B-Stock
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I looked at the Emotiva's, but many of their products are to wide (around 19") to fit in my A/V opening in my wall. Most AVR's and Amps are closer to 17" give or take a little. I found some forums on AVS in the amp section where people compared Emotiva to Outlaw, it seemed most favored the Outlaws saying the Emotivas seemed "Thin", whatever that is?  Cheaper may attract me also if you have good luck.... I just rechecked on the LPA-1 and it appears it is 17" wide, now why on earth are the others wider?
Last edited by sirquack; 12/22/06 04:39 AM.
M80s VP180 4xM22ow 4xM3ic EP600 2xEP350
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Re: Outlaw B-Stock
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Randy, it's so that the guys at AVS can't say that they're "thin".
-----------------------------------
Enjoy the music, not the equipment.
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Re: Outlaw B-Stock
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I did notice that the other two amps in the Emotiva lineup are wider than the standard 17". I wish I knew the answer to that question. *Non defensive mode on* In regards to the "thinness" of the emotiva amps, IMHO I can't say that it's true. To me, the Emotiva amps have a full, rich sound to them. Yesterday I sent the bpa's back to tennessee(30 day trial had ended) and hooked the mains back to my trusty(hasn't croaked yet) hk230. The speakers just didn't have that same presence as before when the bpa's were hooked up. They sounded, well, a bit thin.  Totally serious here. My hk amps just don't have "it". *Non defensive mode off* All that matters is what you feel comfortable in purchasing. I don't think you can go wrong either way.
*Michael*
AV123 Refugee - X-LS Encore, X-Voce, X-Omnis, Elt-Dpa's
Denon AVR-591
Magnavox NB500MGX BDP
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Re: Outlaw B-Stock
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That LPA-1 does look like a beast on the inside. I"m a little concerned about the matching pre/pro, are you planning on getting that or using your HK as a pre/pro? Also, I see this amp would not give the rear channels as much, but that is no biggy.
M80s VP180 4xM22ow 4xM3ic EP600 2xEP350
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Re: Outlaw B-Stock
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I'm not buying the prepro at this time. It is still in its infancy and there are a few remaining bugs that need to be taken care of. I plan on keeping my receiver for prepro duties until the version II comes along(note: I don't have any idea if something is in the works or not). I don't mind paying a little more than the current price when the issues are resolved. The 50 watts a piece shouldn't be a problem for the rear surrounds. Heck I'm using a 50watt receiver for all channels now and it gets pretty loud. Here is a post from the rocket forum to give you an idea of the issues that are currently at hand, yet are being worked on as we speak. Quote:
Well I received an updated UL today from emotiva. It contains a new version of the software and is supposed to resolve the issues below.
1) DPLIIx defaulting to Music
2) Switching to bypass for non DD content regardless of last setting
3) Popping sound in speakers while switching from non DD station to DD station
4) One big issue many seem to be having is the UL does not seem to have any way to store our listening preference. If it does then it is not working.
For example: Lets say I am watching tv. when I flip to an HD channel the sound will flip to DD. Thats great. But when a comercial comes on or I flip to a non HD channel it is changing the UL sound setting to bypass. Well I want it to be DPLIIx movie. So I change it. Flip around come back and sometimes it will keep that preferences, until I shut off the unit. Then it goes back to bypass. Also next time I want to use DPLIIX movie and hit the button on the remote it defaults to music, so the only to remedy this it to go into the menus and change it. So that causes my projector to lose synch with the image as it does not like the UL menu. As you can see this is less than ideal and usually results in me giving up and just using bypass mode which really kind of stinks. I have seen a bunch of other posts on this same issue I just was not sure if anyone notified you about it.
Of course my theater is completely torn apart and the projector out getting fixed so it will be at least a week or two before I can actually play around with it
Here is that thread if you're interested in reading it. It is quite long. The post I quoted is on the 7th page which was made by the forum member marjen. He was one of the beta testers for the product.
Emo UL and PLIIx
Ok, so it appears that I'm being a huge fanboy for Emotiva and it's products.  That is not my intention. If there was no Emotiva, I would have an Outlaw amp right now. I still feel that you should buy whatever tickles your fancy. 
*Michael*
AV123 Refugee - X-LS Encore, X-Voce, X-Omnis, Elt-Dpa's
Denon AVR-591
Magnavox NB500MGX BDP
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Re: Outlaw B-Stock
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Into the Qs8's I think it would be more like 75watts? (6ohm load) not sure? I know I read some threads on AVS about initial bugs earlier in the year, but thought they were resolved in August or September. Hmmm, I was thinking it would be cool to have the matching set. My Denon would be great as a pre/pro but the black finish would be different than the Emotiva's I believe.. We'll taking off now on a 3hr drive to the inlaws. Catch you on dial-up later today.
M80s VP180 4xM22ow 4xM3ic EP600 2xEP350
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Re: Outlaw B-Stock
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I wasn't thinking about the qs8's and their 6ohm factor. The amp(channels 6 and 7) delivers 50w at 8ohms and 95w at 4ohms. Figure about 75w at 6ohms. A matching set would be ideal, and I can understand why you would need that. Personally I can live with a receiver as a prepro for a long time if needed. More features(hdmi, etc) for a much lower price. Drive safely! Lots of crazies on the road right now. Have a merry christmas and happy holidays.
*Michael*
AV123 Refugee - X-LS Encore, X-Voce, X-Omnis, Elt-Dpa's
Denon AVR-591
Magnavox NB500MGX BDP
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Re: Outlaw B-Stock
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On the blackberry now heading up I35. I see the lmc1 now ships with a free HDMI switcher upto 1080p signals. So are you going to get the Lpa1. Ill do more research tonight at the unlaws.
Merry Christmas to you also buddy my friend.
Randy
M80s VP180 4xM22ow 4xM3ic EP600 2xEP350
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Re: Outlaw B-Stock
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I'm sure you know this, but I case you didn't, the lmc-1's switcher is for video only. Still a viable option to have though. Let me add a little more to the lmc-1. Even though most of the bugs have been ironed out, the few remaining are either being taken care or in the process of being eliminated. Just waiting on marjen to update us on the newest firmware upgrade... I've settled upon the LPA-1 or MPS-1. If I go with the MPS-1, I will only purchase three channels for now...and let the receiver power the side surrounds. If you need some serious lmc-1 info, search the Rocket Forum Archives. There are numerous biased and unbiased reviews, threads, questions, comments etc. The Emotiva line, up until the recent split, was distributed through AV123. So it makes sense that most of the info would be there. Good luck!
*Michael*
AV123 Refugee - X-LS Encore, X-Voce, X-Omnis, Elt-Dpa's
Denon AVR-591
Magnavox NB500MGX BDP
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Re: Outlaw B-Stock
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Thanks man, we just arrived a bit ago, I hate this time of year it gets dark so early. Anyway, thanks man, I'll have to do some more research. I like the mps1, but I think it is also to wide for my AV opening of 19" width. The HDMI stuff is not a big deal to me. This is used with a projector and I don't need to send sound to the projector. Right now I use DVI which the same for video. Off to do some research.
M80s VP180 4xM22ow 4xM3ic EP600 2xEP350
AnthemAVM60 Outlaw7700 EmoA500 Epson5040UB FluanceRT85
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Re: Outlaw B-Stock
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Hmmm the mps-1, I didn't realize you could start with just 3 amps? I notice it says it comes standard with a 7 channel configuration. I'll have to check it out also. Their 2 channel with blue led meters is pretty cool also. What to do, what to do.
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Re: Outlaw B-Stock
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axiomite
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axiomite
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Quote:
What to do, what to do.
Buy some damn amps will ya. It's not that hard, just press the Add to cart button
Rick
"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud
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Re: Outlaw B-Stock
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Just a few more questions. In looking at Outlaw, it appears the 970 has a few issues, similar to the Emotiva LMC-1. Both companies are actively seeking solutions, but I am hesitant on making a purchase. I like the amps both companies provide, Emotiva having the edge on cost.
My question is, are there any other companies that make seperates direct to the consumers like the above two? I like dealing direct, like Axiom and not through other channels. Emotiva and Outlaw seem to have affordable solutions for people wanting to jump into the seperates world.
Just curious if there are others I should consider with a similar sales channel and quality.
Thanks, Randy
M80s VP180 4xM22ow 4xM3ic EP600 2xEP350
AnthemAVM60 Outlaw7700 EmoA500 Epson5040UB FluanceRT85
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Re: Outlaw B-Stock
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I know Rick, I'm dreaming. ....... .... Most likely I will just by an amp and use my Denon as a Pre/Pro for now. I just like my equipment to look the same, so I guess down the road I could save up for a matching pre-amp from whatever company I select, once they work out some of the minor bugs. I can't wait until I get everything I WANTTTTTT.
M80s VP180 4xM22ow 4xM3ic EP600 2xEP350
AnthemAVM60 Outlaw7700 EmoA500 Epson5040UB FluanceRT85
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Re: Outlaw B-Stock
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axiomite
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One more I can think of is Odyssey Audio . Their prices are higher but they are suppose to be one heck of an amp.
Rick
"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud
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Re: Outlaw B-Stock
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axiomite
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Quote:
One more I can think of is Odyssey Audio .
Being an Odyssey owner, I'll have to second wid's suggestion. Yes, the are a bit pricey, but you are getting one rock solid piece of equipment. Klaus will deal with you personally to find out what system you have and what you are looking for in terms of sound. 20 year warranty and great customer service!
C'mon Randy, just buy one!
***********
"Nothin' up my sleeve. . ." --Bullwinkle J. Moose
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Re: Outlaw B-Stock
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I wouldn't buy any pre / pro without HDMI switching and audio stripping / processing Randy. You may not think you need it, or even want it right now, but you will pretty soon. Multichannel HD PCM audio at 96 hz is quite a treat.
For an amp, if you're not in hurry, you may just want to wait for the Axiom line to hit the streets. Ian's got some real treats coming. The technology going into them is above anything else available right now.
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Re: Outlaw B-Stock
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From the research I've done, the Axiom amps will be far out of my price range. My HTPC is the only component I have in which I send the digital video via HDMI/DVI from my Nvidia card to my projector, sound is not important from a projector standpoint, even if I upgrade to a different projector some day.
M80s VP180 4xM22ow 4xM3ic EP600 2xEP350
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Re: Outlaw B-Stock
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Just three amps my friend. I asked them about it through email and they said you could jump into any configuration that you wanted. One, two, three, four, five, etc... Quote:
You can purchase the chassis separately ($305.00) and each EPM-300 module is ($199.00). So you can set it up in any configuration you would like. We also have a EPM2150 module which is a two channel version (2x 150) at $249.00
I agree with your statement on "what to do". I'm having a hard time deciding which one to purchase. I want to do it before the free shipping comes to an end, so I can save a few more bucks. Decisions, decisions...
*Michael*
AV123 Refugee - X-LS Encore, X-Voce, X-Omnis, Elt-Dpa's
Denon AVR-591
Magnavox NB500MGX BDP
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Re: Outlaw B-Stock
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Have you considered the IPS-1?
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Re: Outlaw B-Stock
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Quote:
Have you considered the IPS-1?
Very much so. I even started a thread about it on the rocket forum. I like the fact the it has the appearance of the LPA-1, and the Class H amp technology like the MPS-1.
Back in November of this year, it was at the fore-front of my list. I was just waiting for it to be released on Dec. 1st so I could make a purchase. Well, that release date was pushed back until Jan. 15 and I haven't been the same since... 
Seriously, I might wait until then to buy the IPS-1. I won't get the free shipping deal, but since they ship from california it shouldn't be too much $$$.
*Michael*
AV123 Refugee - X-LS Encore, X-Voce, X-Omnis, Elt-Dpa's
Denon AVR-591
Magnavox NB500MGX BDP
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Re: Outlaw B-Stock
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So you can't order one before the 31st huh, and get the free shipping when it becomes available? I was just thinking by the time you purchase the mps1 cases, and enough amps to power your mains, and maybe the center, your pushing or exceeding the price of the IPS1 with 7 amps. I haven't even told the wife about my thoughts, so it will get worse before it gets better...
M80s VP180 4xM22ow 4xM3ic EP600 2xEP350
AnthemAVM60 Outlaw7700 EmoA500 Epson5040UB FluanceRT85
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Re: Outlaw B-Stock
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Research...Research...:) The more I think about it Michael, I like the MPS-1 option. A person could start with 2 or 3 EPM300's to run the LCR, and as time and budget permits, add some more, or even just use some EPM2150's for the Qs8's. EPM300's might be overkill for the surround channels, hmmm. Either way, the Denon would be used as a pre/pro, and again as budget allows I could possibly look at getting a matching pre from Emotiva, hmmmmm. In looking at my opening, I have 19" and these units are 18 7/16, so there would not be much space on the sides. Do they need a lot of breathing room on the sides, or just the top? I guess I could cut some nice 2-3"' holes for venting on the sides if needed, or redue my AV rack to be a little wider. Either way, it is all hidden in my AV closet so you would not see it anyway. I'll have to see how much green ($) I get for XMas and then make a fast purchase decision to get the free shipping before the 31st. Ok Randy, now wake up....
M80s VP180 4xM22ow 4xM3ic EP600 2xEP350
AnthemAVM60 Outlaw7700 EmoA500 Epson5040UB FluanceRT85
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Re: Outlaw B-Stock
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Quote:
From the research I've done, the Axiom amps will be far out of my price range. My HTPC is the only component I have in which I send the digital video via HDMI/DVI from my Nvidia card to my projector, sound is not important from a projector standpoint, even if I upgrade to a different projector some day.
My comments were specifically audio related. Multichannel PCM can only be passed via HDMI.
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Re: Outlaw B-Stock
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axiomite
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Where are you guys getting all these part numbers from ? Am I still being punished for losing the "Axiom Owners Club" email ?
Last edited by bridgman; 12/24/06 12:26 AM.
M60ti, VP180, QS8, M2ti, EP500, PC-Plus 20-39
M5HP, M40ti, Sierra-1
LFR1100 active, ADA1500-4 and -8
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Re: Outlaw B-Stock
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Quote:
Quote:
One more I can think of is Odyssey Audio .
Being an Odyssey owner, I'll have to second wid's suggestion. Yes, the are a bit pricey, but you are getting one rock solid piece of equipment. Klaus will deal with you personally to find out what system you have and what you are looking for in terms of sound. 20 year warranty and great customer service!
C'mon Randy, just buy one!
Agreed, From another Odyssey Owner Ordered in September, Got mine in October and they have been great. The only bad part is the wait time since they are custom made just for you. The Odyssey forum at Audiocircle HERE Has just about all you ever wanted to know. Give Klaus a call if your intersted
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Re: Outlaw B-Stock
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Quote:
So you can't order one before the 31st huh, and get the free shipping when it becomes available?
I suppose a phone call will clear that up for me.
Quote:
I haven't even told the wife about my thoughts, so it will get worse before it gets better...
Uh oh...someone is setting himself up for a few nights on the couch...
*Michael*
AV123 Refugee - X-LS Encore, X-Voce, X-Omnis, Elt-Dpa's
Denon AVR-591
Magnavox NB500MGX BDP
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Re: Outlaw B-Stock
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Quote:
Research...Research...:)
The more I think about it Michael, I like the MPS-1 option. A person could start with 2 or 3 EPM300's to run the LCR, and as time and budget permits, add some more, or even just use some EPM2150's for the Qs8's. EPM300's might be overkill for the surround channels, hmmm.
Either way, the Denon would be used as a pre/pro, and again as budget allows I could possibly look at getting a matching pre from Emotiva, hmmmmm.
In looking at my opening, I have 19" and these units are 18 7/16, so there would not be much space on the sides. Do they need a lot of breathing room on the sides, or just the top?
I guess I could cut some nice 2-3"' holes for venting on the sides if needed, or redue my AV rack to be a little wider. Either way, it is all hidden in my AV closet so you would not see it anyway.
I'll have to see how much green ($) I get for XMas and then make a fast purchase decision to get the free shipping before the 31st. Ok Randy, now wake up....
Certainly the epm-2150's(x2) could be used to power your side and rear surrounds in an effective manner. I doubt you would need 200w for those. Going that route would also save you $340.
I like your idea of cutting holes in the rack to add ventilation. But it may not be necessary...  They reportedly run very cool, allowing the matching pre to sit directly on top of the amp. I'll see what further info I can find...
*Michael*
AV123 Refugee - X-LS Encore, X-Voce, X-Omnis, Elt-Dpa's
Denon AVR-591
Magnavox NB500MGX BDP
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Re: Outlaw B-Stock
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Quote:
Where are you guys getting all these part numbers from ? Am I still being punished for losing the "Axiom Owners Club" email ?
Part numbers for which product? Outlaw, Emotiva, or Odyssey? Or all three?
*Michael*
AV123 Refugee - X-LS Encore, X-Voce, X-Omnis, Elt-Dpa's
Denon AVR-591
Magnavox NB500MGX BDP
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Re: Outlaw B-Stock
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axiomite
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I incorrectly interpreted the "module plus plug in 300w amps" as being the new Axiom products. Apparently not. Never mind 
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Re: Outlaw B-Stock
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 13,840 Likes: 13
shareholder in the making
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OP
shareholder in the making
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 13,840 Likes: 13 |
Hey Michael,
Is there anyway you can confirm the dimensions on the MPS-1? According to the PDF download info in Emotiva's Contact page it is 17" wide (this is a good thing) but when you click on the details link on their Amplifier page it says 18 7/16" which is a lot different.
No biggy if you don't know, I can always email them....Randy
M80s VP180 4xM22ow 4xM3ic EP600 2xEP350
AnthemAVM60 Outlaw7700 EmoA500 Epson5040UB FluanceRT85
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Re: Outlaw B-Stock
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,201
connoisseur
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connoisseur
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,201 |
I am pretty sure that the width is 18 7/16".  Let me ask the guys on the rocket forum.
*Michael*
AV123 Refugee - X-LS Encore, X-Voce, X-Omnis, Elt-Dpa's
Denon AVR-591
Magnavox NB500MGX BDP
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Re: Outlaw B-Stock
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,201
connoisseur
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connoisseur
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,201 |
Quote:
I am pretty sure that the width is 18 7/16".
Let me ask the guys on the rocket forum.
Yep, pretty darn close to the 18 7/16" spec. Got a response from a MPS-1 owner and he measured it to be 18 5/16". The 17" measurement that you mentioned is without the side panels. Apparently they can be removed. For what reason I don't know?
He also said that there aren't any vents on the sides. Just on the top and bottom. If you look at the detailed photos of the mps-1 it's clear that there are no vents on the sides. 
*Michael*
AV123 Refugee - X-LS Encore, X-Voce, X-Omnis, Elt-Dpa's
Denon AVR-591
Magnavox NB500MGX BDP
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Re: Outlaw B-Stock
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 13,840 Likes: 13
shareholder in the making
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OP
shareholder in the making
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 13,840 Likes: 13 |
Thanks man, appreciate the information. By the way, how big is the room Michael? With the relatively high efficiency of the Axiom speakers, 95dB 1w 1m, I most likely would never use all the power of these amps. I also know there are skeptics that there is no difference in sound upto a point, but all this talk about "headroom" and "better" sound at all volume levels has me curious.
M80s VP180 4xM22ow 4xM3ic EP600 2xEP350
AnthemAVM60 Outlaw7700 EmoA500 Epson5040UB FluanceRT85
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Re: Outlaw B-Stock
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,201
connoisseur
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connoisseur
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,201 |
Quote:
Thanks man, appreciate the information. By the way, how big is the room Michael? With the relatively high efficiency of the Axiom speakers, 95dB 1w 1m, I most likely would never use all the power of these amps. I also know there are skeptics that there is no difference in sound upto a point, but all this talk about "headroom" and "better" sound at all volume levels has me curious.
My room is approximately 13 wide x 18 long. Ceiling height is 10 ft at the highest point, then drops down to 8 ft on both sides. About 2100 cubic feet. Plus I sit on the long wall...so I'm about 8 feet from the speakers.
I get the feeling that I wouldn't use the capability of the mps-1 in my room either. Even though my speakers are less effecient, I don't have a large room. My best guess is that I (and you) would be fine with 125w per channel. I wish there was an easy way to determine how much amp power is needed for a given room(size) and speakers.
I hate to say it, but for you, the only way to know if there is an improvement in sound is to try one out for 30 days. I know that is a standard answer around here...but it's true. Order an Outlaw or an Emotiva amp, and put it through its paces. Call and ask how much the return shipping on the Emotiva would be from Iowa to Tennessee in case you don't like it. Do the same for Outlaw.
To me, having the bpa-1's for a short term, I already know there is an improved sound. I was able to turn the volume up to ridiculous levels(95db) without any harsness or strain. The amp remains smooth and clean. My hk would top out about 80 to 85 decibels before starting to break up. There was definitely a fullness of sound that I'm not getting with the HK alone. It is worth it to me. Now to decide on either the LPA-1 or IPS-1... 
*Michael*
AV123 Refugee - X-LS Encore, X-Voce, X-Omnis, Elt-Dpa's
Denon AVR-591
Magnavox NB500MGX BDP
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Re: Outlaw B-Stock
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 13,840 Likes: 13
shareholder in the making
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OP
shareholder in the making
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 13,840 Likes: 13 |
or MPS-1 .............. My room is 8,000 cu ft so much larger. My Denon does fine in the 90-100 dB range and it is plenty loud, but it COULD be better.
M80s VP180 4xM22ow 4xM3ic EP600 2xEP350
AnthemAVM60 Outlaw7700 EmoA500 Epson5040UB FluanceRT85
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Re: Outlaw B-Stock
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,201
connoisseur
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connoisseur
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,201 |
Quote:
or MPS-1 ..............
You are a bad man...trying to get me thinking about MPS-1 again!
Quote:
My room is 8,000 cu ft so much larger. My Denon does fine in the 90-100 dB range and it is plenty loud, but it COULD be better.
Wow! pretty big room you got there. Maybe YOU should get the MPS-1...hehe
*Michael*
AV123 Refugee - X-LS Encore, X-Voce, X-Omnis, Elt-Dpa's
Denon AVR-591
Magnavox NB500MGX BDP
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Re: Outlaw B-Stock
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 10,654
shareholder in the making
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shareholder in the making
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 10,654 |
Randy, all that talk about headroom and better sound at all volume levels has no factual basis and vanishes when subjected to properly controlled blind listening tests(especially with the volume exactly matched, the failure to do so being a common reason, along with wishful thinking, for hearing wondrous benefits). If the amplification is flat from 20Hz-20KHz and distortion and noise are at inaudibly low levels(common these days)that's all there is; there ain't no more. Unused excess power capacity is simply that: unused.
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Enjoy the music, not the equipment.
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