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SPL Help
#155031 01/04/07 05:48 PM
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I want to double check my Denons auto setting using my SPL that I've never used, unfortunately the directions have disappeared and I have no idea how to use it, any help on the settings and how to use would be appreciated.

Anyone looking for a SPL meter they sell them here Aperion


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Re: SPL Help
HomeDad #155032 01/04/07 06:41 PM
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Michael, you want to set it to C weighting and slow response.

With the circular dial, select the appropriate range (70, 80, etc.). If, for example you select the "80" range, when the needle points at "0", the signal is 80dB. If the needle points to the "2" to the left of the zero, you're getting 80dB MINUS 2 dB, or 78dB.

Set it to the "70" range, and "0" represents 70dB.


Jack

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Re: SPL Help
HomeDad #155033 01/04/07 06:45 PM
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I have limited use with an SPL, but as per you picture the settings are correct except you need to select the SPL level on the Range.

Settings should be:

Weighting C
Response Slow
Range 70 or 80

If you want to calibrate to 75 DB's turn it to Range 70 and the needle should go to the Right +5 to achieve 75db.

The Range will be the minimum level it will start to pick up the sound I believe.

I hope this helps and is correct


Jack beat me, I guess I type slower...

Last edited by HAY; 01/04/07 06:46 PM.

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Re: SPL Help
HomeDad #155034 01/04/07 06:48 PM
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I would tend to believe that just about all home theatre setup calibration is calibrated in the same basic manner regardless the brand of similar SPL meters. Here's a basic explanation of how the SPL meter should be adjusted for calibration ....

Using the SPL Meter

... hope it helps.


Rick
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Re: SPL Help
Ajax #155035 01/04/07 08:24 PM
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Thanks everyone for the responses, I'm pretty clear on how to use it now. I'll try it tonight when I've got some quiet in the house. I'm interseted to see what it reveals in comparison to my Denons autosetup.


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Re: SPL Help
HomeDad #155036 01/04/07 10:42 PM
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I have a question.

The meter should be held upright when taking the reading ?
basically the transuder thing is up in the air ?
and
you dont lay it on its side and point the transducer at the speaker in question, right ?

thanks

Randy


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Re: SPL Help
Jim_Perkins #155037 01/05/07 12:21 AM
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From the article that Rick provided.
"There is mixed advice about how to hold your SPL meter to take measurements. Some will tell you to aim the SPL meter's microphone at the speaker you're measuring. If you consistently do it like this for every speaker, you'll be fine. Others will tell you to hold the meter straight up for every channel. Most enthusiasts feel that holding the meter straight up provides more consistent results between channels. (Think about it. Your ears are not directly aimed at your speakers when you listen to them)."


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Re: SPL Help
HomeDad #155038 01/05/07 12:24 AM
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With an omnidirectional meter, I think you should have it straight up, however, when I test I have it slightly (a few degrees) angled forward.


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Re: SPL Help
SirQuack #155039 01/05/07 03:06 AM
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Quick question on the SPL of the sub, what should the volume on the EP500 be set at prior to the tone test and calibration, and secondly should the sub also be calibrated to 75db, I have everything done but the sub and just getting the sub up to 68db's started shaking the glasses in the bar If this is the case this is a real change from the Denons autosetup.


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Re: SPL Help
HomeDad #155040 01/05/07 03:09 PM
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I believe all your speakers (including the sub) should be at the same db level.

Detailed Instructions for sub setup can be found here (thanks to Ajax for posting this on another thread.

Like people are saying on other posts, if you are using the EP500, add an extra 3 feet to the distance to account for the DSP and processing.

Last edited by Hutzal; 01/05/07 03:13 PM.
Re: SPL Help
HomeDad #155041 01/05/07 03:15 PM
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Hey Michael,

Per Axiom's pamphlet that comes with the subs, they recommend setting it midway of the 9o'clock position to start. So on the 500 and 600, that is pretty low, around 6-7 o'clock position. Keep in mind your still getting the full 500 or 600 watts of power no matter what you have the setting on. Alan mentioned at one point to put the receiver level on 0dB for the sub, and then adjust the volume knob on the sub up/down until you get 75dB's or whatever you calibrate to...Also, the trim level normally should be used on "flat" for larger rooms and for flatter resonse, but you may want to experiment with half and full if your getting to "MUCH" bass, these may help tame that...:)


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Re: SPL Help
SirQuack #155042 01/05/07 03:49 PM
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I run my EP500 at the half trim setting. My room is only 11 x 19, and my entire HT is in one half of that. Cozy.

Re: SPL and auto big difference.
pmbuko #155043 01/05/07 05:24 PM
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My sub is difficult to get to so when I calibrated it I left the volume where it was at, I'm guessing around the 9 o'clock position. I ran the test tones through the receiver with the receiver at odb. and the sub set to flat. Getting the sub to 70db using the db control on the receiver was about as high as I went before the house really started shaking.
There was a significant difference between the Denon's autosetup and using the sound meter. I don't know what db the Denon calculates at, but I had to lower the db levels on all my speakers about 4.0 and raise the sub about from -5.0 to +7.0 to get all the speakers at 75db and the sub at 70db, it's almost like I'm hearing the EP500 for the first time.
I think I'll get a calibration disc and try again to see if there is much difference.
I did run the tones through the THX optimizer on the Cars DVD and found that when running the tones after my calibration, it was the first time I had heard the subs test tone in that particular test.
Now I need to watch all my movies again with these settings.


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Re: SPL and auto big difference.
HomeDad #155044 01/05/07 06:09 PM
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Quote:

Getting the sub to 70db using the db control on the receiver was about as high as I went before the house really started shaking.





Funny thing is a lot of people including myself like to run the sub "a little hot" which means bumping it up a couple of db's.

Quote:

Now I need to watch all my movies again with these settings.




People comment on listening to their CD's/DVD's all over again once getting the Axioms...the same should be said about getting a system properly calibrated.


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Re: SPL and auto big difference.
HomeDad #155045 01/05/07 11:24 PM
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Michael, I'm confused...your saying you can't reach the knobs?

If you have the sub at 9 o'clock I would think your Sub level setting in the Denon would be like -10 dB's to compensate for having the sub gain so high to achieve 75dB's approx. on the meter, +5 seems way to high. If I even put it on 8 o'clock my denon is on like -5dB's to achieve 75dB's from the main position.


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Re: SPL and auto big difference.
SirQuack #155046 01/05/07 11:55 PM
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My subs behind my mains and TV in a corner on the left side of the room, I have to move the right main then navigate through all the wires, lean the sub up forward away from the wall so I can see where the volume is set on the sub, using a flashlight because the lighting doesn't shine well in that corner and the line on the volume knob is difficult to see, I guess you get my point
But I understand what you are saying because it seemed to me like something was off, as I was turning the db's up on the receiver for the sub it seemed like the tone was getting much louder without the SPL making great gains and the needle starting bouncing alot. So tonight I'm going to get back there and recalibrate starting with the volume on the sub at the 8 o'clock position and see what happens.


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Re: SPL and auto big difference.
HomeDad #155047 01/06/07 02:35 AM
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I calibrated again with basically the same results, I'm literally shaking the house down and really cranking up the sub db's just to get to 70 db's on the meter, even at only 70db's showing on the meter the effects are way to much.
I know subs are non directional, but could the placement in the corner, or the fact that our HT is on the second floor be affecting the LFE effects or response of the meter.
I'll always adjust to what my ears like best, but it seems odd that I can't seem to get an accurate reading because I don't think it's possible for me to crank the sub up as much as I have without being able to get to 75 db.


A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kick boxing.
Re: SPL and auto big difference.
HomeDad #155048 01/06/07 03:01 AM
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Are you using the Manual Test tones in the Receiver menu's? Maybe your meter is messed up. I like to verify my Denon's 2805 auto setup by going into the Speaker section and manually cycle through each speaker with the spl meter in the main seat position to get all speakers to 75dB's. With both my ep500 and now ep600 I have the volume level about 7 o'clock and the receiver's sub level on 0dB. If I raise the sub volume, I have to lower the receiver to stay at 75dB, and vice versa.

How big is your room? What do you have the trim level set on, flat, half, etc...? A corner position WILL give you the most over all bass and excite most room locations, however, sometimes it can result in to much boooooooom.


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Re: SPL and auto big difference.
SirQuack #155049 01/06/07 03:07 AM
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One more note. My room is like 30ft x 31ft, with the HT area over in one corner area. Last night I ran the receiver test tones manually, so I could cycle through each speaker one by one at my own pace. When I got to the sub, I adjusted it at 75dB's also from the main location seat. Now the needle will fluctuate a little, but if you keep it on Slow and C-weighting to pick up the low freq's, you'll be fine.

Then out of curiosity, I walked around the room and watched the meter to see how it would act in different locations. For the most part it stayed pretty true in the 75dB's area. I was amazed that when I walked over to the opposite corners, even the farthest corner over by the bar area, it was dead nutz on 75dB's. I thought that was pretty cool.


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Re: SPL and auto big difference.
SirQuack #155050 01/06/07 03:43 AM
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My room is around 20ft by 50ft open to another room that's close to the same size, the trim level is set to flat the sub is set at the 7 o'clock position, my setups at an angle in the left corner of the room and I think that's resulting in much of the boom. The meter is having no problem getting my speakers to 75db. I'm using the test tones on the 3805 and that automatically sets the receiver at 0db.
I tried what you did in walking with the meter and I got some pretty varied results, from my listening position and moving back almost thirty feet the SPL level stayed at about 65db (That's about as high as I could stand to crank it up)as I moved towards the left wall the db's started going up, when I got within 2 feet of the sub in the left corner the db's jumped to 80.
I'm starting to think my sub location is most likely the problem. Since the sub is in the corner in the left and the entire right side of the room is open that may be affecting the sound. I'm wondering if maybe some bass traps might help out. I did move the sub away from the side and back walls a few inches and that seemed to help, but I've still got the sub set at 7 o'clock and 3.5 db on my receiver to get to 65db in my listening spot.


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Re: SPL and auto big difference.
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Michael, you might possibly reach over and do sub settings by "braille" as I do after backing my EP500 tightly into a corner. Because of the sensitivity of my fingers, I've determined that the level setting I arrived at(with the receiver sub trim at +2dB)was about 7:38:23. Don't overlook the significance of the trim control which Peter mentions, especially if your room isn't very large. In my particular combination of room size and sub location in a corner, I found that the "full" trim setting gave smooth yet still very strong results in combination with my M22s.


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Re: SPL and auto big difference.
HomeDad #155052 01/06/07 03:56 AM
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Can you tell me where your listening position is in relation to the front (sub) wall and back wall? I'm guessing that your seated in a location that has a room null. The ideal location is 38% from the front wall, followed by 38% from the rear wall. These locations are best for flattest response. 50% is not great, and the worst is being up against the back wall.


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Re: SPL and auto big difference.
SirQuack #155053 01/06/07 04:28 AM
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My listening position is about 10 feet from the sub which sits about 2 feet from the back wall and 1 foot from the side wall, there is virtually no back wall behind the couch since my setup runs at an angle and the room is open to another room that's at a slightly lower level, the nearest wall in direct line with the front of the sub would be around 40ft away.
I think you are right about me sitting in a fairly null area, as John and Peter suggested I'll try adjusting the trim settings to see if that helps.
Of course I can manually adjust everything so it sounds great in my sweet spot, but like most folks that get into this darn hobby it bothers me that I can't get it optomized throughout the room, and the fact that my Denons autosetup will drop the sub 10db's.


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Re: SPL and auto big difference.
HomeDad #155054 01/06/07 04:53 AM
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Good Luck...The newer Denon's have the latest technology from Audysseywhich takes measurements from 8 (depends on model) different locations and then applies filters to even out the frequency and get the best response from all locations. Reviews have been very positive from many reputible online websites.

I know you don't want to get a new AVR.


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Re: SPL and auto big difference.
SirQuack #155055 01/06/07 05:17 AM
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Oh I want that Audyssey But I'm starting to think I just may be one of the lucky ones in the group who's rooms suck.


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Re: SPL and auto big difference.
HomeDad #155056 01/06/07 01:41 PM
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Welcome Home, My Brother.


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Re: SPL and auto big difference.
HomeDad #155057 01/08/07 03:10 PM
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Quote:

Oh I want that Audyssey But I'm starting to think I just may be one of the lucky ones in the group who's rooms suck.




Good thing is that it can be fixed, like just Randy's.


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Re: SPL and auto big difference.
Hutzal #155058 01/08/07 10:18 PM
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One thing I noticed about the suggestions in this thread is that you are using a range of 70 db and push the needle up to +5 to get 75 db (if I understand correctly). I have a very similar SPL meter (different brand but looks exactly the same) and the manual says that if the needle goes above ~+2 or 3 you should switch to a higher range. Reason being is that if you do the battery test its basically pushing the needle as high as it can go with full voltage applied, and if your batteries are low (say +2 during batt test) then there's no way to get a consistent reading at +5. It would only ever get there due to fluctions in the bass frequencies that cause the needle to 'swing' past the +2 up to the +5 for a short time before it drops back down. This could explain why your sub needs to be so loud, to get lots of these fluctuations to keep the needle close to the +5 position. If this is the case, I'm not sure why the other speakers are able to be calibrated at +5, possibly because they use higher frequencies and the fluctuations happen much more often.

My suggestions is to calibrate at a different level, such as 70 or 80 db, to overcome this limitation of the analog device. This way you will be able to see fluctuations both above and below the reference point and will not be depending on the battery level.


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Re: SPL and auto big difference.
JasonB #155059 01/08/07 10:26 PM
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Thanks Jason, I'll try the 80db setting and see what happens, I've done some searches and have read about other people having similar problems in trying to get the db's on their subs high enough, I may be just dealing with odd room acoustics.


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Re: SPL and auto big difference.
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Michael, I think Jason's suggestion is good, as are your observations about nulls. You might try a inverse sub crawl; leave the sub doing something relevant where it is and walk around - even to the adjoining rooms. I was very surprised to find a big peak in the kitchen when I did this. I'm sorry that I haven't been following your story very closely, but if there is a way to experiment with sub placement, I'd strongly suggest it.


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Re: SPL and auto big difference.
tomtuttle #155061 01/09/07 12:23 AM
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As per Jason's suggestions I checked my speakers with the SPL meter set at 80, the speakers all came in around -2 or 78db, where the sub made a significant rise to -7 or 73db.
I'm guessing the sub is still set at a rather high level, the 500 volume is about the 7 o'clock position with the dbs for the sub set at +4.5 on the receiver. During the test tone I had pictures on a wall 40 ft away rattling.

Tom, you were correct about the walk around, I'm getting peaks and valleys virtually all over the house, my sitting area being one of the lowest, at about 18ft to the right of the sub near the kids bedroom it's peaking over 80db.
I could place the sub near one of the couches if I get a longer cable and test it there, just the thought of moving it makes my back ache.


A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kick boxing.
Re: SPL and auto big difference.
HomeDad #155062 01/09/07 02:44 AM
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Just be glad you don't have an ep600.


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Re: SPL and auto big difference.
SirQuack #155063 01/11/07 04:44 PM
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I decided to order a 20ft sub cable from Blue Jeans, I plan on doing the sub crawl next week to see if I can improve the effect on the room.


A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kick boxing.
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