 Axiom M3 v2 vs Polk Rti6
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Warning: extreme Axiom newbie alert!
Hi guys, I have a question for you all. After a lot of auditioning, reading reviews, etc. I thought I had finally made my mind up on a pair of Polk Audio Rti6's. That was until I made a last minute peruse of the Axiom site and was extremely impressed by what I read.
So my question is what is the "better" (I realize this could cause a huge debate) speaker, the Axiom M3 v2 or the Polk Audio Rti6? I'm not sure if there are too many who've had experience with both but it's worth a shot. They will be used in a small livingroom powered by a mid 90's Denon receiver (that will be upgraded shorty) used mainly for listening to music and some movies (about 80% music: cd's and a lot of vinyl - 20% movies). I hope to add the M22 v2 a little further down the road as well.
I realize posting on the Axiom board can lead to biased answers but who better to ask then people who have had experience with these speakers. I'm also excited to support a Canadian company who are well known for their customer service and quality product.
Let me know what you think. Thanks in advance!
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Re: Axiom M3 v2 vs Polk Rti6
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Sorry, can't give you any real help, have not heard any Polks recently, but I have found the Axioms(M22's) to be cleaner, clearer sounding than the older Polks I have heard.
Just wondering what price you are looking at for the polk's? The website states $550/pr.cdn. The M22's are $520 or $468 from the factory outlet. I will guess your price on the Polk's is about the same as the M3's otherwise you wouldn't be asking about the M3's. But you say you are thinking about the M22's later, if you can swing them I would recommend them with out hesitation.
Check out the Hearing Things forum to see if anyone near you has some Axioms you could audition and go from there.
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Jason
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QS8 v2
PB13 Ultra
Denon 3808
Samsung 85" Q70
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 Re: Axiom M3 v2 vs Polk Rti6
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Thanks for the info Jake, I appreciate it. Yeah you are correct that even though the msrp price for the Rti6 is $550 cdn I can get it for around $290cdn shipping included which is actually $70 cheaper than the M3. I wish my budget was that high as I'd pick up the M22's in a heartbeat but unfortunately it's around the $300 - $350cdn mark right now. Although I was happy with the performance of the Rti6 the amount of plastic on the face of the speaker and the grill made it look cheap. The grills were especially cheap, plastic and thin. for a $550 pair of speaker I guess I expected a bit nmore. One of the reasons I like the Axioms was because of, for lack of a better word, the fact they looked "hand made". It looks like quality production. Thanks for the heads up on the Hearing Things Forum. I'll check it out asap. Keep the opinions coming! 
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Re: Axiom M3 v2 vs Polk Rti6
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local
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Yes I do think axiom speakers are beautiful. You could always buy just one M22, and put it somewhere so you can see it everyday. I imagine it wouldnt take long to scrape up the difference to get it's mate. i just started to try to convert the CD $ to US $, but gave up  and although I havent ever ordered any, all i here is good things about the factory outlet
Last edited by Randy_Perkins; 01/10/07 04:57 AM.
Axiom M80, Ep600, Qs8, VP150, Crown XLI 2500 , DBX Driverack PA2, Focusrite Scarlet 2i4
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Re: Axiom M3 v2 vs Polk Rti6
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If there isn't a sub in the equation I would say to go for the M3s. They will give you a much fuller sound than the M22s on there own.
2xM80 VP180 2xQS8 2xM3 HSU STF3 LG 60PS11 Denon 3808 ATI 1506 LCR 2xATI 1502 Oppo BDP-83
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Re: Axiom M3 v2 vs Polk Rti6
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local
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Quote:
If there isn't a sub in the equation I would say to go for the M3s. They will give you a much fuller sound than the M22s on there own.
I'll agree with that one. It wasnt long after the M22 that i got a sub.
Randy
Axiom M80, Ep600, Qs8, VP150, Crown XLI 2500 , DBX Driverack PA2, Focusrite Scarlet 2i4
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Re: Axiom M3 v2 vs Polk Rti6
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Quote:
If there isn't a sub in the equation I would say to go for the M3s. They will give you a much fuller sound than the M22s on there own.
Virtually everyone says this yet, my M22's set to large have a very rich, full sound to them, with lots of bass, could be it be that the M3's maybe lack the extra little bit of detail, thus making them feel/sound fuller? The graphs are virtually identical other than that bump. I know that little hump pushes the lower end up front and gives it a differrent sound than the M22. So to say the M3 has a fuller sound is not correct, I would say it is biased lower in the frequency range giving it a little lower tone/sound.
Jason
M80 v2
VP160 v3
QS8 v2
PB13 Ultra
Denon 3808
Samsung 85" Q70
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Re: Axiom M3 v2 vs Polk Rti6
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Quote:
Quote:
If there isn't a sub in the equation I would say to go for the M3s. They will give you a much fuller sound than the M22s on there own.
Virtually everyone says this yet, my M22's set to large have a very rich, full sound to them, with lots of bass, could be it be that the M3's maybe lack the extra little bit of detail, thus making them feel/sound fuller? The graphs are virtually identical other than that bump. I know that little hump pushes the lower end up front and gives it a differrent sound than the M22. So to say the M3 has a fuller sound is not correct, I would say it is biased lower in the frequency range giving it a little lower tone/sound.
From my experience with the 22s they seemed to be lacking a little in the bass department but were very detailed. When I combined them with a sub (stf-2) they really shone.
2xM80 VP180 2xQS8 2xM3 HSU STF3 LG 60PS11 Denon 3808 ATI 1506 LCR 2xATI 1502 Oppo BDP-83
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Re: Axiom M3 v2 vs Polk Rti6
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My view of the M22s played without a sub is similar to Jason's(Jake). With room reinforcement I get very strong response down to about 60Hz, a little weaker at 50Hz and significantly weaker, although still relatively usable for music, at 40Hz. This is adequate and very satisfying for most music(excluding pipe organ, etc.)and I commonly used it without the sub which I used with another setup. Now that I have the EP500 it's probably going to be in a permanent combo with my M22s(among other things it's too heavy to carry around as I can do with my other, much less capable sub), but as was said, the M22s are quite good in the bass area for most music without a sub.
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Enjoy the music, not the equipment.
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Re: Axiom M3 v2 vs Polk Rti6
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I just wanted to thank you guys for the info. I really appreciate it. Instead of starting a new thread I just thought I'd ask another question here. I found a used EP125 sub in great shape for $80 (although a couple of the grill pegs are broken off  ) I realize this is the smallest and least powerful of Axiom's subs but I think it will be all I need for a small livingroom in a condo with thin walls. Any opinions/experiences with this little unit?
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Re: Axiom M3 v2 vs Polk Rti6
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Sure, for $80 why not? It'll add a little bass extension to the main speakers that you're considering.
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Enjoy the music, not the equipment.
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Re: Axiom M3 v2 vs Polk Rti6
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Yeah for $80 I just can't pass it up. All I'm looking for is something to fill out the bass. This should do just fine.
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Re: Axiom M3 v2 vs Polk Rti6
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For $80 I would buy it with out thinking. Good find.
Jason
M80 v2
VP160 v3
QS8 v2
PB13 Ultra
Denon 3808
Samsung 85" Q70
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Re: Axiom M3 v2 vs Polk Rti6
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Yeah that's exactly what I said to myself when I saw it on Sunday. I might even trade in a pair of Rockford Fosgate car subs to put towards them. They've been gathering dust in my closet for years.
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Re: Axiom M3 v2 vs Polk Rti6
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Well I picked up the ep125 yesterday. I gave it a quick demo and was throroughly impressed with the bass output this little 8" produced. I'll wait until I order the M3's to hook it up. Best $80 I've ever spent.
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Re: Axiom M3 v2 vs Polk Rti6
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Quote:
Well I picked up the ep125 yesterday. I gave it a quick demo and was throroughly impressed with the bass output this little 8" produced. I'll wait until I order the M3's to hook it up. Best $80 I've ever spent.
I am glad you like the $80 sub, what a find!
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Re: Axiom M3 v2 vs Polk Rti6
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I am glad you like the $80 sub, what a find!
I'm still in shock that I found this little gem. Who knew a little shop in Regina is going to have an Axiom sub that I was considering buying one day. $80 is a lot easier on the bank account than $470.
Two more questions (sorry  )....Does Axiom have anything that denotes what version it is on the speaker? For Example my Paradigm center channel is marked as cc370 v.3. I'm assuming this is the first version since there's nothing that states otherwise. Just curious.
Also does Axiom (or any hi fi store) sell replacement grill pegs? 3 out of the 4 pegs are sheared right off and if possible I'd like to replace them. This is probably common knowledge among true audiophiles but I've never had to worry about it before.
Last edited by dronevil; 01/18/07 04:11 PM.
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Re: Axiom M3 v2 vs Polk Rti6
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If the back label doesn't say v2, it's not a v2. What v2 means varies between the speaker lines (for example, I'm fairly certain there's no difference between the EP500v2 and the EP500.)
I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!
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Re: Axiom M3 v2 vs Polk Rti6
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Actually, there were changes to the DSP code and a few other small changes made to the EP500. If we can make it better, we do!
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Re: Axiom M3 v2 vs Polk Rti6
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D'oh! I've been wrong about just about everything I've said about the v2s... different binding posts than I thought, DSP changes...
I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!
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Re: Axiom M3 v2 vs Polk Rti6
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Don't worry too much about it Ken. You can't get it all right, what... you think it's your birthday or something? Oh wait... nevermind 
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Re: Axiom M3 v2 vs Polk Rti6
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Quote:
Actually, there were changes to the DSP code and a few other small changes made to the EP500. If we can make it better, we do!
Maybe I can ask Amie this question. Does Axiom sell replacement grill posts/pegs? Or is it even possible to replace them?
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Re: Axiom M3 v2 vs Polk Rti6
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So seeing as I just hit the old purchase button for a black factory outlet 500 I assume I'll be getting the latest version when it ships in 4 weeks or so?
2xM80 VP180 2xQS8 2xM3 HSU STF3 LG 60PS11 Denon 3808 ATI 1506 LCR 2xATI 1502 Oppo BDP-83
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Re: Axiom M3 v2 vs Polk Rti6
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Alan Lofft,
Axiom Resident Expert (Retired)
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Re: Axiom M3 v2 vs Polk Rti6
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Well, that confirms it- short and sweet. Unless maybe you were wanting confirmation from Lara Croft?
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Re: Axiom M3 v2 vs Polk Rti6
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Ooh, the new Axiom employee, Lara Croft. I forsee a sales spike.
2xM80 VP180 2xQS8 2xM3 HSU STF3 LG 60PS11 Denon 3808 ATI 1506 LCR 2xATI 1502 Oppo BDP-83
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Re: Axiom M3 v2 vs Polk Rti6
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Especially in the Axiom installation service.
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Re: Axiom M3 v2 vs Polk Rti6
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It depends on *how* they are damaged and how handy you are. If you grab the serial number from the back, call Debbie at Axiom: 1-877-862-9466 ext 216. She'll know from the serial number which pins you have and if you can replace them yourself. Depending on the age of the sub, you may have a wooden grille frame, which will make a difference too.
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Re: Axiom M3 v2 vs Polk Rti6
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Quote:
It depends on *how* they are damaged and how handy you are. If you grab the serial number from the back, call Debbie at Axiom: 1-877-862-9466 ext 216. She'll know from the serial number which pins you have and if you can replace them yourself. Depending on the age of the sub, you may have a wooden grille frame, which will make a difference too.
Thanks for the heads up Amie, I really appreciate it. I'll give Debbie a call this morning and find out.
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Re: Axiom M3 v2 vs Polk Rti6
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Quote:
Quote:
It depends on *how* they are damaged and how handy you are. If you grab the serial number from the back, call Debbie at Axiom: 1-877-862-9466 ext 216. She'll know from the serial number which pins you have and if you can replace them yourself. Depending on the age of the sub, you may have a wooden grille frame, which will make a difference too.
Thanks for the heads up Amie, I really appreciate it. I'll give Debbie a call this morning and find out.
Well I tried to get ahold of Debbie but, although the phone number was right, the extension was wrong. I'll maybe try again later.
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 Re: Axiom M3 v2 vs Polk Rti6
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Hi Dronevil, Debbie's extension is 216. If you call her Monday, she will likely be in the office. You can also reach her by e-mail at debbie@axiomaudio.com
Last edited by Andrea; 01/21/07 11:08 PM.
Axiom Audio
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 Re: Axiom M3 v2 vs Polk Rti6
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Hi Andrea, Thanks for the info. It must have misdialed her extension. Boy do I feel like an ass.
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Re: Axiom M3 v2 vs Polk Rti6
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Not to worry. I would either blame the fact that it's the weekend or the second glass of wine!! 
Axiom Audio
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Re: Axiom M3 v2 vs Polk Rti6
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You know me so well! Usually it is wine but this weekend I have to blame single malt scotch!
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Re: Axiom M3 v2 vs Polk Rti6
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Oh, this is totally off topic but I thought it was interesting nontheless as I came across a little Axiom bashing over the weekend.
I stopped in a local hi fi shop to look at some amps and turntables. After some audio talk with one of the salesman I mentioned that I just bought an Axiom EP125 and will be purchasing a pair of either M3's or M22's shortly. He then called one of his fellow co-workers over where they went on a 10 minute rant about how crappy Axiom was and how their quality control was questionable. He kept telling me I should buy a pair of B&W bookshelves from him instead. After that I looked at a few amps and left.
The audiosnobbery didn't really surprise me but listening to the two of them made me think they should write for HI FI Choice or some other UK audio magazine. I'll be sticking with Axion regardless of what they think.
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Re: Axiom M3 v2 vs Polk Rti6
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Of course they did, they wanted you to buy something. I try not to mention my speakers when I am looking for Amps, receivers in audio shops just to avoid the rant or blank stare as they have never heard of Axiom. I think the rant comes from the fact they know they can't compete price wise for the sound the Axioms produce.
Jason
M80 v2
VP160 v3
QS8 v2
PB13 Ultra
Denon 3808
Samsung 85" Q70
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Re: Axiom M3 v2 vs Polk Rti6
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Yeah letting sales people know your equipment isn't always the smartest thing to do but I let it slip. The B&W's were great and all (I don't know how many times I heard the word "kevlar" though  ) but when $600 plus tax gets you the equivalent of the M3's I'd rather spend $560 tax included on a pair of M22's. I think I'm going to wait awhile and go with the M22's instead of the M3's.
Last edited by dronevil; 01/23/07 03:02 AM.
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Re: Axiom M3 v2 vs Polk Rti6
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Well the saga continues I finally saved the little extra needed to pick up a pair of the M22's and will be dropping an order asap. My question is this, with a modest set up of the M22's backed by an EP125 sub need a center channel? I was considering buying one (probably a VP100) somewhere down the line but in retrospect I'm not sure if it's really needed. I have a Paradigm cc and have not been overly impressed with it and truth be told I'm much more of a "music guy" than a "movie" guy. I'm just not sure a small room (14'x14') would be the right place for it. Will the two speaker set up give me that "phantom channel" I keep hearing about or would the center be beneficial when listening to music? As usual I'm confused! 
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Re: Axiom M3 v2 vs Polk Rti6
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D, using the M22s to play material that should be imaged in the center has to create a "phantom center" midway between them because that's what happens when two widely separated speakers play the same sound. The image will stay centered for a listener midway between the speakers, but will shift in step with the listener if he moves to the side. A center channel speaker keeps the center image centered even for listeners off-center. Experiment with the M22s without a center; it's what I use.
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Enjoy the music, not the equipment.
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Re: Axiom M3 v2 vs Polk Rti6
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Is there no one in Regina that has a VP100 or 150 that you could audition? If not how about a road trip to Calgary where there has been an explosion of Axiomites lately, I would gladly give you an audition.
I think the VP series is a little cleaner, crisper sound than the Paradigm CC. So you may find you actually like a center once you've had a chance to hear one of them.
So far as music goes unless listening to multichannel, the center won't add much and none if you have the receiver in stereo mode. For movies it helps, as John said, to keep the dialogue centered, but if you are not going to be off axis much then the phantom modes in the receivers works quite well.
I am surprised John didn't mention trying a vertical center speaker like the M2 or M3 or if you have room another M22 for the center channel to see if you like that better.
Jason
M80 v2
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QS8 v2
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Re: Axiom M3 v2 vs Polk Rti6
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>>I have a Paradigm cc and have not been overly impressed with it and truth be told I'm much more of a "music guy" than a "movie" guy. I'm just not sure a small room (14'x14') would be the right place for it.>>
Like Jason (Jakewash) stated (and JohnK should have stated), if you are REALLY tight on cash (as it looks like you saved up for the M22s, obviously you want your money to go far in your speaker purchase), I would also recommend an M2 ($148.50 from FO) or M3 ($162.00) centre.
The M2 will match your M22s woofers, the M3 will give you a deeper and more full sounding vocals than the M2 and won't noticably be different sounding than the M22s with 5.1 (I have M3 centres with M22 mains and can't notice anything).
That being said, buying an M2 or M3 for a centre is alot cheaper than the VP100 from the FO (for $252.00).
I would vouch for either a single vertical M2 or M3 centre for your room size over any of the VP series.
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Re: Axiom M3 v2 vs Polk Rti6
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Quote:
Is there no one in Regina that has a VP100 or 150 that you could audition? If not how about a road trip to Calgary where there has been an explosion of Axiomites lately, I would gladly give you an audition.
I'm sure there's got to be Axiomites here in Regina, the used EP125 I picked up for $80 can attest to that, but I don't know any of them. Funny enough a road trip to Calgary may be in the works over the next month or so. I have a lot of friends who have moved to Mecca...oops I mean Calgary (kidding  just a little SK humour) so my wife and I travel there a couple of times a year. Thanks for the kind offer, I might just take you up on it one day.
Quote:
Like Jason (Jakewash) stated (and JohnK should have stated), if you are REALLY tight on cash (as it looks like you saved up for the M22s, obviously you want your money to go far in your speaker purchase), I would also recommend an M2 ($148.50 from FO) or M3 ($162.00) centre.
I can't say I'm poor but the combination of a new baby, buying a new condo and car over the past 3 months and trying to pay off the neverending burden that is student loans has really taken a toll on my bank account. Boy do I sound like whiner! You hit the nail on the head though, I do want my money to stretch as far as possible without compromising quality. With the M22's I think I found the right fit.
The idea of having a M2 or M3 as a center is very tempting if I decide to go that route. I actually used a Polk R50 as a center for awhile, and although it's not in the same league as the M3 or even the M2, I was quite happy with the sound.
Now I have to decide if I want to go with an integrated amp or receiver. Decisions, decisions. Don't worry I won't bother anyone with that question....quite yet. Many thanks to JohnK and my fellow Western Canadians jakewash and Hutzal for the advice. I really appreciate it.
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Re: Axiom M3 v2 vs Polk Rti6
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After reading Hutzal comments, I just orderred a pair of M3s as center speakers to compliment my mains (m22). I have a KEF Reference center right now, it sounds too thin for my liking.
As for integrated or receiver, how about separates? Or atleast get a receiver with pre-outs.
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Re: Axiom M3 v2 vs Polk Rti6
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,102
connoisseur
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connoisseur
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,102 |
Quote:
After reading Hutzal comments, I just orderred a pair of M3s as center speakers to compliment my mains (m22). I have a KEF Reference center right now, it sounds too thin for my liking.
As for integrated or receiver, how about separates? Or atleast get a receiver with pre-outs.
Glad to hear it, I am in love with my Parallel M3s. Please post your impressions when you get them in!
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Re: Axiom M3 v2 vs Polk Rti6
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Joined: Jan 2007
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OP
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Well I finally ordered the M22's last Friday so they should be arriving very soon (I actually thought they'd be here by now). I'm definitely considering the M3 as a cc but I don't know if it will fit in the new t.v. stand that I bought last night. I'll have to do some measuring when I get home.
I can't wait to check out the M22's!
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Re: Axiom M3 v2 vs Polk Rti6
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,034
connoisseur
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connoisseur
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I've been running an M3 as center for quite a few years now.
.....good stuff.
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Re: Axiom M3 v2 vs Polk Rti6
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 427
devotee
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devotee
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How does one know if they can run dual M3's as a centre? I have a Yamaha HTR 5450 Receiver which the manual says is rated at 80W (8ohm) for the centre channel. Could I run dual M3's?
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Re: Axiom M3 v2 vs Polk Rti6
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 11
frequent flier
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frequent flier
Joined: Jan 2007
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Quote:
Glad to hear it, I am in love with my Parallel M3s. Please post your impressions when you get them in!
I will gladly share my thoughts.
Quote:
How does one know if they can run dual M3's as a centre? I have a Yamaha HTR 5450 Receiver which the manual says is rated at 80W (8ohm) for the centre channel. Could I run dual M3's?
running dual M3s as center will either make your center configuratuion runs under 4 ohm or 16 ohm load. 16 ohm load is safer for the receiver but it will probably not give you the sound you would like. 4 ohm (higher ampere) load will probably draw too much current from your receiver which it may not be able to do, thus result in cliping. Even if you can drive it, I would get an amp for them or use the new amp for the mains. That way you can eleviate the receiver from driving all the speakers by itself. It probably only has a transformer and a couple of capacitors, so you will run out of juice driving all the speakers.
Under powering your speakers will cause them to sound "bright", have "muddy" midrange, no punch in low end or low end is "uncontrolled".
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Re: Axiom M3 v2 vs Polk Rti6
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 10,654
shareholder in the making
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shareholder in the making
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Daniel, you don't know until you try. The fact that a receiver is officially rated for only 8 ohm speakers means that the rather severe FTC and UL tests required for a 4 ohm rating didn't occur, but doesn't necessarily mean that in real-world use one 4 ohm load couldn't be driven without shutting everything down. You also don't need to worry about underpowering because of the parallel operation; this actually takes less power. In any case, the indication of inadequate power is noticeable distortion on brief peaks, not more subtle effects on frequency response,etc.
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Enjoy the music, not the equipment.
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Re: Axiom M3 v2 vs Polk Rti6
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 11
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Quote:
You also don't need to worry about underpowering because of the parallel operation; this actually takes less power.
John, running 8 ohm speakers in parallel will make it 4 ohm , that is half the original resistance, which requires more current (ampere). It should equate to more power being needed. Ohm's Law (V = I x R). No? anyways.. Never like Physics in college.
Daniel, John has a good point, you won't know until you try. Your receiver should have some protection circuitries built in that it will shut down automatically if too much current is going through it. At the very worse, you are going to blow a fuse; so you might be out a few dollars.
Goodluck!
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Re: Axiom M3 v2 vs Polk Rti6
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 10,654
shareholder in the making
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shareholder in the making
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C7, yes Ohm's Law controls here, but also keep in mind that when two speakers are playing the same sound that the sound level is increased by 3dB. To keep the same overall sound level as before each speaker can play 3dB less loudly, requiring only half as much power as before. The form of Ohm's Law that would analyze the current requirements in the situation is I(current in amperes)= [square root]P/R(power divided by resistance). For example, if a certain sound level required 32 watts with an 8 ohm speaker and to maintain the same sound level with two of them driven in parallel required 16 watts, the current required with one is [square root]32/8=2 amperes, and with two is [square root]16/4=2 amperes.
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Enjoy the music, not the equipment.
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