 Need a new sub. Is Axiom worth it?
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 51
buff
|
OP
buff
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 51 |
I need a new sub. The one I have now is an old HSU VTF-2 with the 150wt amp. I love my Axiom speakers I received not too long ago, and would like to get an Axiom sub. However my room is fairly large and I don't know if the EP350 will do the job and the 500 cost a fortune. My room is basically 18x14x14 with an open floor plan.
I don't want too much bass as I don't want to bother the neighbors as I've been on the receiving end of that before. The other options were the VTF3-MK2 or VTF3-MK3 in HSU. For you guys running Axiom subs how do they compare or do you think the extra is worth it?
Bill3508
|
|
|
Re: Need a new sub. Is Axiom worth it?
|
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 10,420
shareholder in the making
|
|
shareholder in the making
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 10,420 |
You could do no wrong with the HSU and they are cheaper too. Check out anything from Craigsub and on AV123 forum he has quite the thread going for his sub comparisons. Some of it has been posted on here, no time for me to search though. Basically the VTF3Mk3 gets more points from him for a deeper extension and its cheaper than the Axiom.
Jason
M80 v2
VP160 v3
QS8 v2
PB13 Ultra
Denon 3808
Samsung 85" Q70
|
|
|
Re: Need a new sub. Is Axiom worth it?
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 51
buff
|
|
OP
buff
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 51 |
The EP350 is in the price range, but I really have not found that much info on it, reviews or otherwise. A couple folks returned the 350 for the 500, but for twice the price I'm not sure its worth it. 350 is the only option or go to HSU.
Bill3508
|
|
|
Re: Need a new sub. Is Axiom worth it?
|
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 285
local
|
|
local
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 285 |
Are you looking for a sub to fill out the low frequencies while playing or are you (also) going to use it for producing the LFE's (low frequency effects) while watching movies? If it is primarily for music then the EP350 will probably suit your needs. If you want to experience the big LFE's during movies then I'd get something that goes lower and louder by HSU, SVS or Axiom's EP500. HSU and SVS sell some excellent subs that are somewhat less $ than the EP500.
Paul
|
|
|
Re: Need a new sub. Is Axiom worth it?
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 51
buff
|
|
OP
buff
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 51 |
Probably 60% movies, 40% music.
Bill3508
|
|
|
Re: Need a new sub. Is Axiom worth it?
|
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 28
hobbyist
|
|
hobbyist
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 28 |
What are the thoughts of Rocket UFW-12 Subwoofer compared to EP 500?
David
Last edited by Parrothead; 02/05/07 01:39 AM.
|
|
|
Re: Need a new sub. Is Axiom worth it?
|
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 10,420
shareholder in the making
|
|
shareholder in the making
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 10,420 |
I just posted this for someone else and its a listing done by Craigsub and this guy knows his subs. 1. $3200 + (shipping?) JL Audio Fathom 113: 103 points. 2. $4995 + (shipping?) Velodyne DD-18: 100 points. 3. $2150 + (shipping?) ACI Maestro: 97 points. 4. $2200 + (shipping?) JL Audio Fathom 112: 95 points. 5. $999 + ($105 Shipping) Hsu VTF-3 HO + Turbo: 94 points 5a. $899 + ( $80 shipping) Hsu VTF-3 HO w/o Turbo: 92 points 6. $649 + ($75 shipping) VTF-3 Mark III w/o turbo: 91 points 7. $1299 + ( $99 shipping) SVS PB12-Ultra: 90 points. 7T. $1200 + ( $0 shipping included) Axiom EP-500: 90 points 8. $1299 + ( $99 shipping) SVS PB12-Plus/2: 87 points. 9. $599 + ($50+ shipping) PB12-NSD: 86 Points 10. $1099 + ($100 shipping) Rocket UFW-12: 85 points (provisional) 11. $429 + ($50 shipping) SVS PB10-NSD 12. $199 + ($43 shipping) Rocket X-Sub: 78 points 13. $99 + (shipping?) Rocket Tyke: 60 points The entire thread is here.
Jason
M80 v2
VP160 v3
QS8 v2
PB13 Ultra
Denon 3808
Samsung 85" Q70
|
|
|
Re: Need a new sub. Is Axiom worth it?
|
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,235
connoisseur
|
|
connoisseur
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,235 |
When I was sub shopping, I was close to pulling the trigger on an Axiom sub, but I ended up with the HSU VTF3 since the company ran a half price shipping promotion during Xmas season 2005. I was looking for something that was better than my JBL PB12, which had become toast, for less than $1K. I found that, and I am happy with the product I purchased so far. I'm sure the Axiom EP 500 looks nicer, though. My black HSU ain't pretty by any stretch of the imagination, but since it is somewhat hidden from view that doesn't bother me.
|
|
|
Re: Need a new sub. Is Axiom worth it?
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 364
devotee
|
|
devotee
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 364 |
Quote:
My black HSU ain't pretty by any stretch of the imagination, but since it is somewhat hidden from view that doesn't bother me.
I've heard this from a couple others, is the HSU really that ugly or just a plain old black box?
I'm thinking of a VTF2.3 or STF-3, but the SVS cylinder sub kind of interests me. I got an email from SVS where they consider the PB12-NSD to be sonic equivalent to their 20-39PCi cylinder sub. Personally I think the cylinder blends into the room better, so putting it in the mix too.
|
|
|
Re: Need a new sub. Is Axiom worth it?
|
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 6,833
axiomite
|
|
axiomite
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 6,833 |
I don't think ugly is the right word. It's just a big black box that's all. Mine, both of them, are in my living room and it no big deal to me.
Rick
"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud
|
|
|
Re: Need a new sub. Is Axiom worth it?
|
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 8,488
axiomite
|
|
axiomite
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 8,488 |
I'm going to keep saying it (even though it may not be applicable to this specific situation). That HSU Turbo thing is hideous. I'd rather have a bigger black box.
bibere usque ad hilaritatem
|
|
|
Re: Need a new sub. Is Axiom worth it?
|
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 16,441
shareholder in the making
|
|
shareholder in the making
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 16,441 |
Quote:
That HSU Turbo ...
Build a little birdhouse on your sub.
(with sincere apologies to TMBG)
|
|
|
Re: Need a new sub. Is Axiom worth it?
|
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 18,044
shareholder in the making
|
|
shareholder in the making
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 18,044 |
Not to put to fine a point on it,
Say, that's the only bee in his bonnet.
I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!
|
|
|
Re: Need a new sub. Is Axiom worth it?
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 51
buff
|
|
OP
buff
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 51 |
I really want the EP350 but I don't know if it will handle the room. I wish Craig would do a review of the sub and see what he thinks. It may be down to the VTF3.3 or 3.2 as the 500 is just too much for the same performance.
Bill3508
|
|
|
Re: Need a new sub. Is Axiom worth it?
|
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 10,420
shareholder in the making
|
|
shareholder in the making
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 10,420 |
It's my understanding that the 350 does not compare to the 500 nor the HSU lines, not to say the 350 is bad but not in the same league as the others. You could always try a PM to Craig and see what he has to say, he may have tried it sometime ago.
Jason
M80 v2
VP160 v3
QS8 v2
PB13 Ultra
Denon 3808
Samsung 85" Q70
|
|
|
Re: Need a new sub. Is Axiom worth it?
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 51
buff
|
|
OP
buff
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 51 |
PM is inbound to him. Have to see if he responds.
Bill3508
|
|
|
Re: Need a new sub. Is Axiom worth it?
|
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 6,833
axiomite
|
|
axiomite
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 6,833 |
I don't recall Craig ever mentioning the 350, I could be wrong. If the EP 500 rates right below the Hsu VTF 3.3 I seriously doubt the 350 could be in the same class.
Rick
"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud
|
|
|
Re: Need a new sub. Is Axiom worth it?
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 364
devotee
|
|
devotee
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 364 |
I guess it comes down to how much bass/LFE you want Bill. I am in the similar boat having a 16x20x8 room that is open to the rest of the basement. I was thinking of getting by with a 350, but really the prices on the HSU or SVS options are similar to the 350, but more in the performance ranges of the EP500.
I dont need the walls shaking, but would like to feel the benefit of the sub in HT movies. The feedback I got from HSU was VTF2.3 minimum, but might want to step up to a STF-3 or VTF3.2 as the extra power would be needed to energize the space. SVS said PB12-NSD, or 20-39-PCi.
I would say if you want bang for the buck, go with HSU or SVS. If you want it to match your speakers, you can settle for the 350, or be more than satasfied with the EP500. The other wildcard that gets good reviews is the Rocket UFW-10 or 12 that looks nice.
This is all the feedback I have gotten with similar requests as yours, good luck with the decision.
|
|
|
Re: Need a new sub. Is Axiom worth it?
|
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 3,602
connoisseur
|
|
connoisseur
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 3,602 |
Quote:
Not to put to fine a point on it,
Say, that's the only bee in his bonnet.
Oh the college-ness of it... great, now I feel like hearing about Particle Man... when he's underwater, does he get wet, or does the water get him instead?
Bren R.
|
|
|
Re: Need a new sub. Is Axiom worth it?
|
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 10,420
shareholder in the making
|
|
shareholder in the making
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 10,420 |
Quote:
I guess it comes down to how much bass/LFE you want Bill. I am in the similar boat having a 16x20x8 room that is open to the rest of the basement. I was thinking of getting by with a 350, but really the prices on the HSU or SVS options are similar to the 350, but more in the performance ranges of the EP500.
I dont need the walls shaking, but would like to feel the benefit of the sub in HT movies. The feedback I got from HSU was VTF2.3 minimum, but might want to step up to a STF-3 or VTF3.2 as the extra power would be needed to energize the space. SVS said PB12-NSD, or 20-39-PCi.
I would say if you want bang for the buck, go with HSU or SVS. If you want it to match your speakers, you can settle for the 350, or be more than satasfied with the EP500. The other wildcard that gets good reviews is the Rocket UFW-10 or 12 that looks nice.
This is all the feedback I have gotten with similar requests as yours, good luck with the decision.
And if you remember from our audition it really doesn't take a great sub to make the walls shake for HT but it does take a much better one for music. My little Costco special (10" D-Box downfiring into carpet over concrete) shakes the entire house during movies and does an admirable job on music but it isn't as tight as I think it could be, and it's in a room 12'wide 27'long and 8'high. This is why I am thinking about M60's instead of EP500 as my Sub works for me for movies and the M60's would be better for music.
And I really want the Axiom sound upstairs in the living room. 
Jason
M80 v2
VP160 v3
QS8 v2
PB13 Ultra
Denon 3808
Samsung 85" Q70
|
|
|
Re: Need a new sub. Is Axiom worth it?
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 51
buff
|
|
OP
buff
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 51 |
You all knew what he was going to tell me, HSU for the buck over the 350. However, the VTF2.3 and 3 are much larger. Six inches taller than my current sub and 4 inches deeper. My current on is only the VTF-2 with the 150wt amp and 10" woofer with the tunable ports. It shakes the house fine during movies and I only have it turned around 9'oclock or so. Its not as tight as I would like but I think that is a condition of my floor plan as it is very open. Basically half the house is one big room. I'm still trying to make myself get the EP350. The SVS SB12+ looks interested but it would probably be too small.
Bill3508
|
|
|
Re: Need a new sub. Is Axiom worth it?
|
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 725
aficionado
|
|
aficionado
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 725 |
Bill3508, have you contacted HSU? You may want to email them to see if upgrading the AMP or driver would be a cheaper alternative that will give you what you want. On the HSU forum there's lots of people who had previous models and upgraded to one of the new amps with more power...
High Gloss Cherry
M60 VP150 QS8
Open for Auditions but please don't drool on the High Gloss
|
|
|
Re: Need a new sub. Is Axiom worth it?
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 364
devotee
|
|
devotee
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 364 |
Quote:
And if you remember from our audition it really doesn't take a great sub to make the walls shake for HT but it does take a much better one for music.
And I really want the Axiom sound upstairs in the living room.
I hear you, but I auditioned a Klipsch setup at a London Drug HT room and the 10" Klipsch sub sounded fine, but the 12" really made me "feel" the thump of the rotor blades in Black Hawk Down demo. Thats why I guess I want a bit more in a sub for HT purposes. The HSU gets good reviews from music enthusiasts and if I go large enough can get those effects for HT.
You know you want the M60's and you know your wife could benefit from listening to her favorite Elton John CD's on the M22's upstairs. Its a slam dunk. Just wait until I get my M22's (on order) and you should get some more Axiom bucks 
|
|
|
Re: Need a new sub. Is Axiom worth it?
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 364
devotee
|
|
devotee
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 364 |
Quote:
However, the VTF2.3 and 3 are much larger. Six inches taller than my current sub and 4 inches deeper. Bill3508
Bill, you should ask Craig about this sub http://www.av123.com/products_product.php?section=subwoofers&product=1.1
I read a review of his where he preferred this to the VTF2.2 and the PB10-NSD and it is smaller than the VTF3.2 and others. Might satasfy your desire for a better sub, but without going too large in size.
|
|
|
Re: Need a new sub. Is Axiom worth it?
|
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 10,420
shareholder in the making
|
|
shareholder in the making
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 10,420 |
Quote:
I hear you, but I auditioned a Klipsch setup at a London Drug HT room and the 10" Klipsch sub sounded fine, but the 12" really made me "feel" the thump of the rotor blades in Black Hawk Down demo. Thats why I guess I want a bit more in a sub for HT purposes. The HSU gets good reviews from music enthusiasts and if I go large enough can get those effects for HT.
The 10" Klipsch I have heard sound fine to me too, but not as good as mine, but that could have alot to do with room accoustics and placement.
I am still in a holding pattern for my speakers, just bought 4 new kitchen appliances and didn't buy cheap. Now looking more end of year or early next year, but the itching could become too much to handle and may have to use a mouse to scratch with.
Jason
M80 v2
VP160 v3
QS8 v2
PB13 Ultra
Denon 3808
Samsung 85" Q70
|
|
|
Re: Need a new sub. Is Axiom worth it?
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 51
buff
|
|
OP
buff
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 51 |
Quote:
Bill3508, have you contacted HSU? You may want to email them to see if upgrading the AMP or driver would be a cheaper alternative that will give you what you want. On the HSU forum there's lots of people who had previous models and upgraded to one of the new amps with more power...
I contacted HSU first and he stated that it was time to upgrade to a new sub over modding the old one.
Bill3508
|
|
|
Re: Need a new sub. Is Axiom worth it?
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 51
buff
|
|
OP
buff
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 51 |
Quote:
Bill, you should ask Craig about this sub http://www.av123.com/products_product.php?section=subwoofers&product=1.1
I read a review of his where he preferred this to the VTF2.2 and the PB10-NSD and it is smaller than the VTF3.2 and others. Might satasfy your desire for a better sub, but without going too large in size.
I wondered about the Rocket and the SB12+. They seem very powerful for a tiny sub. I just wondered how the sealed unit would work in my room. I just don't know if there will be enough airflow. The SVS sub has some setting that you can change according to small/med/large room. Still thinking.
Silently praying for a sale on the EP500 
Much harder than choosing the speakers.
Bill3508
Last edited by Bill3508; 02/06/07 11:21 PM.
|
|
|
Re: Need a new sub. Is Axiom worth it?
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 364
devotee
|
|
devotee
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 364 |
Quote:
I am still in a holding pattern for my speakers, just bought 4 new kitchen appliances and didn't buy cheap.
A new fridge is important to make ice so you can mix a nice drink and enjoy a movie or your music collection.
BTW, I just purchased my STF-3 at Electronicsforless.ca They are having a final clearout on their HSU stock and the STF-3 was almost the same price as from the US.
Now just waiting on them and my M22's.
|
|
|
Re: Need a new sub. Is Axiom worth it?
|
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 10,420
shareholder in the making
|
|
shareholder in the making
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 10,420 |
I saw that sale and almost bought one myself, but the appliances needed to come first, all well at least my wife is really excited.
Jason
M80 v2
VP160 v3
QS8 v2
PB13 Ultra
Denon 3808
Samsung 85" Q70
|
|
|
Re: Need a new sub. Is Axiom worth it?
|
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 537
aficionado
|
|
aficionado
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 537 |
Quote:
Quote:
I am still in a holding pattern for my speakers, just bought 4 new kitchen appliances and didn't buy cheap.
A new fridge is important to make ice so you can mix a nice drink and enjoy a movie or your music collection.
BTW, I just purchased my STF-3 at Electronicsforless.ca They are having a final clearout on their HSU stock and the STF-3 was almost the same price as from the US.
Now just waiting on them and my M22's.
I just ordered a STF-3 from the same place. I wonder how long it will take to ship?
2xM80 VP180 2xQS8 2xM3 HSU STF3 LG 60PS11 Denon 3808 ATI 1506 LCR 2xATI 1502 Oppo BDP-83
|
|
|
Re: Need a new sub. Is Axiom worth it?
|
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 6,833
axiomite
|
|
axiomite
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 6,833 |
I have had the STF 3 for some time now. It will be interesting to hear others opinion about it.
Rick
"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud
|
|
|
Re: Need a new sub. Is Axiom worth it?
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 364
devotee
|
|
devotee
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 364 |
Quote:
I wondered about the Rocket and the SB12+. They seem very powerful for a tiny sub. I just wondered how the sealed unit would work in my room. I just don't know if there will be enough airflow. The SVS sub has some setting that you can change according to small/med/large room. Still thinking.
Bill3508
Bill, here was the comparison I was thinking about with the Rocket and VTF3.2. http://archive2.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=390720&page=1&pp=30
Craigsub seems to judge the Rocket to perform better than the VTF-3 or STF-3. Oh well, I guess I will just have to settle for owning an inferior product 
|
|
|
Re: Need a new sub. Is Axiom worth it?
|
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 6,833
axiomite
|
|
axiomite
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 6,833 |
You should also remember that was in Craig’s room, yours more than likely will be different. I do value and respect his work but it should never be the final word. Here is another review worth noting. Quote:
I guess I will just have to settle for owning an inferior product
I'll bet your tune will change once you hear it.
Rick
"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud
|
|
|
Re: Need a new sub. Is Axiom worth it?
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 364
devotee
|
|
devotee
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 364 |
Quote:
You should also remember that was in Craig’s room, yours more than likely will be different. I do value and respect his work but it should never be the final word. Here is another review worth noting.
I'll bet your tune will change once you hear it.
Thanks for the link. I'm just joking for the most part, because I know when I move all my HT gear to the basement...my room is only 2500 cu ft, but open to at least another 3000 cu ft in the basement.
The STF-3 probably gets me more bang for the buck in the way of SPL with the size of the space I have to energize with bass. I know I'm gonna love it.
3 weeks since I placed the order for my M22's at the Outlet, so hopefully the sub shows up around the same time and I'll be in business.. 
|
|
|
Re: Need a new sub. Is Axiom worth it?
|
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 10,420
shareholder in the making
|
|
shareholder in the making
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 10,420 |
Don't forget to post pictures when it's set up, I believe that is a requirement of being an Axiom owner.
Jason
M80 v2
VP160 v3
QS8 v2
PB13 Ultra
Denon 3808
Samsung 85" Q70
|
|
|
|
Forums16
Topics24,945
Posts442,475
Members15,617
| |
Most Online2,082
Jan 22nd, 2020
|
|
|
|
