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#159059 - 02/17/07 11:11 PM Things to Improve?
aabouganem Offline
veteran

Registered: 12/27/04
Posts: 100
Loc: Houston, Texas, USA
Guys:

First of all, this question I am about to post is not intended to create a thread were all the opinions end on a long fighty thread, or to get any brand name at all...

Setting up the system on my parents house, after I explained all the electronics, the speakers, the other speaker brand I did A/B comparing with the Axioms, and I told them that "no speaker is perfect, they are transducers with limitations", so a very clever question came back: What you need to change to this speakers to make them perfect?

The reason the question came back, is because my parents are kind of skeptics of taking care of my system because is seems expensive for them by latin america standards, and they are afraid that the pets could ruin it, which I already took care of positioning the electronics and speakers properly.

So, getting back to the question... I am not expert at all on different speakers. I enjoy listening to music and falling sleep in front of the speakers, I have tried every tip & trick found in this BB, and I really have look into information of the equipment I have,... basically, I know what I have very well, and how to set it up. But I havent really heard that many speakers, although I try to audition every speaker I see on demo rooms...

So, if you are to answer, instead of all the good things Axiom have, all the things that you think Axiom should improve to be going towards a "perfect speaker", what would you say?

Please, no comparisons to other brands to avoid confrontation. My idea is not to design a new speakers, but to understand that my knowledge of speakers its so reduced, that there are thing to improve on the Axioms, that I am simply not aware of...

I will start with one.. an old one here at the post... the sibilance on the M22... we know the reasons, but a lot of CD are poorly recorded and we cant avoid that annoy.

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#159060 - 02/18/07 01:06 AM Re: Things to Improve? [Re: aabouganem]
spiffnme Offline
axiomite

Registered: 04/01/03
Posts: 5233
Loc: Los Angeles
Now that they offer real wood finishes....I'd say nice grills would be a nice plus.
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"A nation cannot prosper long, when it favors only the prosperous." -President Barack Obama

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#159061 - 02/18/07 06:31 AM Re: Things to Improve? [Re: aabouganem]
real80sman Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/16/02
Posts: 1174
Loc: Ontario, Canada
I think it comes down to a matter of priorities. We've agreed in the past that Axiom's aren't the "end-all, be-all" in speakers, BUT for the money they're pretty hard to beat. At what point does the law of diminishing returns start to apply? Ian HAS done running improvements - the x-over in the M80's, and the port in the EP600 are just 2 examples. If he did MAJOR changes that doubled the price of the speakers, how much better would they actually be? And would they continue to sell at the same volume? (No volume jokes!)

But I really haven't answered your question now have I? I don't think there will ever be a "perfect" speaker. And perfect for one person could be absolute crap for the next.

For me, I've reached my performance/price ceiling. At my current income level, I'm MORE than happy with my speakers. What I really want is a single, standardized, high-resolution, multi-channel audio format, with a single, standardized connection. And I don't want any form of DRM to mess things up. Same for video.
_________________________
Shawn

Epic 80/600 + M3's + M3 Algonquins + M2 Computer + EP125
I think I'm developing an addiction.

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#159062 - 02/18/07 08:14 AM Re: Things to Improve? [Re: real80sman]
RickF Offline
axiomite

Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 5210
Loc: Vero Beach, Florida
Shawn, you've pretty much nailed my thoughts to a 'T' ... during my past 2 years as an Axiom owner and trying to keep my personal expenditure within reason, I have no reason or ambition to seek higher audio bliss. Regarding the speakers, I'm in a perpetual state of content.

I wish Axiom would have had those beautiful glossy finishes 2 years ago though.
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Rick
Our Room

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#159063 - 02/18/07 09:11 AM Re: Things to Improve? [Re: real80sman]
aabouganem Offline
veteran

Registered: 12/27/04
Posts: 100
Loc: Houston, Texas, USA
That is exactly what I think... there will be no absolute perfection, and perfection is a personal choice, depending on listening preferences...

From my side, I am also in that price/performance bracket. I dont think my ears are more accurate to expend 10x the price for a 10% (if so) in performance.

As we all agree, its a matter or choice. My father was a musician long, very looong time ago, and even when he have real instruments at home and he knows how they oughta sound, he does not care for speakers that reproduce them faithfully. I just dont get it... his current setup does not do a good job playing his records, but he does not care for my Axioms neither... I just dont understand how a ex-musician (salsa, latin jazz, and similar) do not care for a better sound. I think his ears are not working fine, as I noticed that he likes to increase the treble a little too much. He told me that the M22 needed some treble... can you believe that.

With all the friends I invited to listen to the setup, man, I got to pull my hair off my head... I was talking to a bunch of guys that think that "#brand#" is the bread and butter of speakers. I know that will be tough for me to introduce good speakers to my friends in South America. The common sense here is that more expensive sounds better... We are not used to good speakers south here, and the people that know about sound, usually are those that work with music. I visit some distributors of brands here, and the most I have audition here are some very good electronics and some speakers that reach the crazy price ranges. But very few, very few people know that those brands are sold in Venezuela. It get worst where I work in Ecuador, where I cant even find good electronics for the M3 I just bought.

Any way. I think I just vented some frustration that no one has show interest on my beloved setup. Its sucks, but is the real proof that is a matter of perception, its personal, and takes time to educate ears to it, including mine of course. Is not that I know everything I should about speakers, but I have put a lot of hours reading and listening to every CD I can to reproduce the experiences and examples I read along.

I really hope that with time, while I am working overseas, my parents learn to enjoy the Axioms as I do. I might need to send my father to an audiometry test as well!!!

Sorry for the long post, but I needed to vent with the people that know what I am talking about.

So, to summarize, at this point: MY AXIOMS ARE PERFECT FOR ME !!!!

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#159064 - 02/18/07 12:20 PM Re: Things to Improve? [Re: aabouganem]
St_PatGuy Offline
axiomite

Registered: 03/07/05
Posts: 7463
Loc: Glendale, Arizona
Alberto, it can be frustrating trying to convince your friends that you have something good. I'll make a generalization and say that the average person will probably be more driven by name recognition than actual sound quality. Marketing is very powerful. This reminds me of my roommate in college. Coincidentally, he was an exchange student from Chile. One day he came home with some headphones and told me he had been doing lots of research to try to find the right ones. He knew I used headphones a lot, but he didn't ask me about them because he thought I didn't know a whole lot. I told him he could have listened to mine to get an idea of what he liked. His words were, "No thanks. Those aren't even Sony, they say Sennheiser on them or something. I wanted to get something good."

Well, enough of me sounding like a snob, but I see what you mean about not having a lot to choose from in South America. And I can certainly see how some well-regarded brands can be overlooked in favor of more well-known brands.

My best friend could care less about things audio. I think he owns maybe 3 CDs, tops. About a year ago, I helped him set up some old hand-me-down speakers from his brother. I don't remember the brand, but the foam surrounds on the woofers were completely shot--even missing in some spots. I found this out after hearing the horrible sound coming out of them and thus removing the grills. My friend thought they sounded fine. I didn't have the heart to tell him otherwise.

Some people like cars, others view them as transports to get them from point A to point B. The former will spend endless amounts of money tinkering, modifying, polishing, and the latter just wants to be sure there's a cup holder and air-conditioning. To them that '68 Mustang Fastback may or may not get them to work, and the enthusiast may need to wipe his drool off the hood.

If you're happy with your speakers, Alberto, that's all that matters. Yeah, it would be nice if those close to you shared your passion for speakers, but don't let it affect you too much.
_________________________
***********
"Nothin' up my sleeve. . ." --Bullwinkle J. Moose

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#159065 - 02/18/07 05:35 PM Re: Things to Improve? [Re: real80sman]
real80sman Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/16/02
Posts: 1174
Loc: Ontario, Canada
After re-reading my post, I have to take back the "At my current income level.." comment. Even if I was making 3 to 4 times the amount, I still wouldn't be on the hunt for different speakers.
_________________________
Shawn

Epic 80/600 + M3's + M3 Algonquins + M2 Computer + EP125
I think I'm developing an addiction.

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#159066 - 02/18/07 07:23 PM Re: Things to Improve? [Re: real80sman]
spiffnme Offline
axiomite

Registered: 04/01/03
Posts: 5233
Loc: Los Angeles
OK...I feel like the shmuck who fell for the trap.

Don't get me wrong. I LOVE my Axioms! I just think the grills could be better. Honestly though, it'd be less for me than it would be for Axiom themselves. The speakers are so good, the flimsy grills take away from the otherwise solid illusion that you've just purchased a pair of multi-thousand dollar speakers.
_________________________
"A nation cannot prosper long, when it favors only the prosperous." -President Barack Obama

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