Sub-woofer placement
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 84
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OP
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 84 |
I've been reading Clint DeBoer's review of the Epic 80 system on audioholics.com and he talked about "crawling around on all fours" to locate the sweet spot for the sub. What does this entail? And is it really that hard to place a sub-woofer? I know room geometry matters, but I have a 12x22x8 room and I'm looking at buying the 350.Thans Mark
M22v3;VP150;QS8;Hsu VTF3-MK4 sub
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Re: Sub-woofer placement
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Joined: Jul 2002
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connoisseur
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connoisseur
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getting to 2,000 posts; one year at a time vp160/qs8/qs4/ep350/m60/m2200s
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Re: Sub-woofer placement
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Joined: May 2002
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connoisseur
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connoisseur
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Welcome Mark.
As you guessed, the room dimensions should not be evenly divisible. I see that you are 12x22x8. That could pose some problems, and you most likely will have to do some acoustical treatments.
Shawn
Epic 80/600 + M3's + M3 Algonquins + M2 Computer + EP125 I think I'm developing an addiction.
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Re: Sub-woofer placement
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 84
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OP
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I read the article (I should have looked there first) and it does answer my questions. Thanks for pointing me there. I'm confused about the dimensions not being evenly devisable?? Is this a "rule-of-thumb" or some hidden mystical code held closely between audiophiles like the secrets of the mason's?
M22v3;VP150;QS8;Hsu VTF3-MK4 sub
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Re: Sub-woofer placement
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 13,840 Likes: 13
shareholder in the making
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shareholder in the making
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12ft x 12ft x 12ft is not good 24ft x 12ft x 6ft is not good 22ft x 12ft x 8ft YOUR room, I don't think you will have to many problems, unless you have bare walls.
M80s VP180 4xM22ow 4xM3ic EP600 2xEP350 AnthemAVM60 Outlaw7700 EmoA500 Epson5040UB FluanceRT85
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Re: Sub-woofer placement
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,177
connoisseur
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connoisseur
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Normally, we don't give this info out until you've been officially indoctrinated into the society, but you seem like a nice guy..... Ok, think of a beer case, eh. Now as you know, the beers are arranged 4 abreast and 6 long. 6 times 4 is 24 - no problem. In fact, its a beauty. But 6 divided by 4 is 1.5. Any beer drinker knows that it is physically impossible to drink 1.5 beer. No bout a doubt it, you are going to drink the full 2 beer, eh. That leaves you with 22 beer. (Unless your buddy Blair is over, then there would be 20) Now, 20 divided by 6 is 3.3. Do you see the patern taking shape here? There is no easy solution but to drink the whole box, bye. And that's were the problem lies, eh. So there you go. Now you understand why the room dimensions are so important. Actually, it has to do with the wavelengths of certain frequencies. Quote:
If the wavelength of a particular note happens to be the same, or an even fraction (1/2, 1/3, ¼, etc.) as one of the room’s dimensions, there’ll be a standing wave created. Standing waves cause certain frequencies to be accentuated at various locations in the room and reduced in others. Basically it can cause one seat in the room have great sound and another to have very poor sound.
In order to reduce the effects of standing waves, it is best to have the room follow certain dimensional ratios. (ratios of HxWxL). First of all, run & hide from a room that is a perfect cube. You should avoid rooms with any ratios that are perfect multiples of each other. An example of a poor room would be a 15’ x 20’ room with a 10’ ceiling. Some good ratios are 1 x 1.3 x 1.7 or 1 x 1.3 x 1.9 or .9 x 1.3 x 1.6. It is easier to work with a rectangular room because the good speaker and seating locations are easier to predict.
Shawn
Epic 80/600 + M3's + M3 Algonquins + M2 Computer + EP125 I think I'm developing an addiction.
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Re: Sub-woofer placement
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,177
connoisseur
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connoisseur
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Quote:
12ft x 12ft x 12ft is not good
24ft x 12ft x 6ft is not good
22ft x 12ft x 8ft YOUR room, I don't think you will have to many problems, unless you have bare walls.
See, there you go. I was reading 12x22, but my brain kept thinking 12x24. I should just stop posting today, and go to bed.
Shawn
Epic 80/600 + M3's + M3 Algonquins + M2 Computer + EP125 I think I'm developing an addiction.
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Re: Sub-woofer placement
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Joined: Sep 2004
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shareholder in the making
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shareholder in the making
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Quote:
Ok, think of a beer case, eh.
::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::
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Re: Sub-woofer placement
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,854
connoisseur
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connoisseur
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I am getting absolutely NO LFE from my beer (well, maybe a little bit the next day ). The bigger disappointment is that my subwoofer doesn't dispense beer.
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Re: Sub-woofer placement
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 84
old hand
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OP
old hand
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wow.. who ever knew listing to music or movies was so complicated. I guess that's why a bottle of Johnnie Walker is rectangular - better acoustics when the scotch hits the ice and slides into the glass like my hands over the curves of a womans great pair of hips .... oh, was that out loud??
Last edited by agentfox1942; 02/22/07 09:52 PM.
M22v3;VP150;QS8;Hsu VTF3-MK4 sub
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Re: Sub-woofer placement
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 10,420
shareholder in the making
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shareholder in the making
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Here's another way to think of it, your entire room becomes the inside of a speaker, so to say. Alot of speaker companies try very hard to design unique cases to stop standing waveforms(Axioms design does this) so if your room is perfectly/evenly shaped you could have this standing waveform problem.
Jason M80 v2 VP160 v3 QS8 v2 PB13 Ultra Denon 3808 Samsung 85" Q70
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Re: Sub-woofer placement
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 340
devotee
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devotee
Joined: May 2006
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"12ft x 12ft x 12ft is not good 24ft x 12ft x 6ft is not good 22ft x 12ft x 8ft YOUR room, I don't think you will have too many problems, unless you have bare walls." But these have a common devisor by 2's. Or 21x12x9 by 3
Isn’t the idea to have no divisible lengths...... 23x13x7 or 23x12x7 or 19x11x8?
Last edited by axiom_man; 03/05/07 06:44 PM.
Pioneer sc-1525 M80 HG Cherry
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Re: Sub-woofer placement
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 10,654
shareholder in the making
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shareholder in the making
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Troy, the significant factor actually isn't not having a common divisor, but rather not having the dimensions be the same or exact multiples of each other. So, the 22'x12'x8' room dimensions all being divisible by 2 isn't significant; they have the relationship of 2.75x1.5x1, which is okay.
-----------------------------------
Enjoy the music, not the equipment.
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Re: Sub-woofer placement
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 13,840 Likes: 13
shareholder in the making
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shareholder in the making
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It is also important that the numbers aren't divisable by themselves easily
12 does not go into 22 8 does not go into 12 or 22
M80s VP180 4xM22ow 4xM3ic EP600 2xEP350 AnthemAVM60 Outlaw7700 EmoA500 Epson5040UB FluanceRT85
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Re: Sub-woofer placement
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Joined: Aug 2004
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axiomite
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axiomite
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If you're fundamentally lazy like me, you can download the "Graphical Mode Calculator" from Ethan Winer's "RealTraps" site, plug in some room dimensions, and look at the graphs to see how the different room resonances pile up at different frequencies. An ideal room has the resonances (modes) evenly spaced. Nobody has an ideal room unless it was designed and built from scratch for audio use, so don't worry if they bunch up in a couple of places. Those will be the "problem" frequencies and you can do things with subwoofer placement to help with them. http://www.realtraps.com/info.htm
M60ti, VP180, QS8, M2ti, EP500, PC-Plus 20-39 M5HP, M40ti, Sierra-1 LFR1100 active, ADA1500-4 and -8
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