 Anti-Cables (and hello!)
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Joined: Feb 2007
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Hi there. I'm an Axiom noob, but a long time audio geek. I've been a Paradigm lover for years as I've always found they consistently represent a very good value for the money, and they sound great too. My system currently consists of the following:
. Arcam Alpha 9 integrated
. Cambridge Audio 640C cd player
. Virtual Dynamics Audition interconnect
. Virtual Dynamics Audition Bi-Wire speaker cables
. Virtual Dynamics Power-One power cables
. Paradigm Monitor 7 v.3 speakers.
. Various other tweaks.
Okay, so it's a bit of a mish mash, but I love it. Here's where Axiom comes in.
I recently moved from a loft (12ft ceilings, wide open space, great for a large speaker) to a small bungalow. I built an office that has to double as a listening room as there is a baby on the way. The Monitor 7's are just WAY WAY too big for the room, so I just ordered a pair of M3's. I can't wait! I get to keep the 7's for the forthcoming home theater set-up (I hope; wife approval pending). But I've run into another problem; the speaker cables.
If any of you know Virtual Dynamics you know they make a very impressive cable, in more ways than one. Each 8ft run of these babies weighs in at almost 10 pounds! That's ~40 pounds of speaker wire. Not to mention that they're 9 gauge, solid copper, per wire (if my math is correct, that's 4 wires per side, 4.5ga aggregate per poll, 2.25ga per side!). Yes, they are beasts but they were the first upgrade I had ever made to a system that truely blew me away. Besides the fact that the M3's aren't bi-wireable, they'd also be pulled of any stand or surface by the VD's.
Enter Anti-Cables (www.anticables.com). I received a set last week and so far I'm AMAZED. They easily outclass the VD's that I paid $1200 for, and I should be crying. In fact I'm selling the VD's (anyone want em? I'm letting 'em go cheap!). I'm curios if anyone here has used Anti-Cables in conjunction with Axiom speakers. Has anyone here even heard of them? I'm waiting on delivery of the M3's with baited breath. The Anti-Cables are amazingly transparent, and if the Axiom's are as transparent as everyone says, I think I'll be upgrading my source and amp very soon!
Your thoughts are appreciated. Go Canada!
-spish
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Re: Anti-Cables (and hello!)
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Joined: Mar 2005
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axiomite
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axiomite
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Spish, you are a brave man to enter an audio forum with a speaker cable post. Welcome!
Me, I like experimenting and trying new things. So, if it fits into your budget go ahead and give it a try. I've heard good things about the Anti-cables. The best thing I like about them is that they are not horribly expensive--perfect to try out. Plus, they look different and have a "coolness" factor going for them. It's all personal preference, though. If you like what you hear, then that is all that matters. Enjoy!
Oh, and I hope you like those M3s.
***********
"Nothin' up my sleeve. . ." --Bullwinkle J. Moose
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Re: Anti-Cables (and hello!)
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 639
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Be prepared for an interesting thread, spish. It seems that the most obvious area of sonic improvement in anyone's system would be the speakers themselves. If you're willing to drop $1200 on cables, why not go for a better speaker to begin with? Personally, I don't see how anyone would want to spend more on their cables than on the speakers themselves. But that's just me.  But it's good to hear you're happy with the (much more reasonably priced) anti-cables. And don't be surprised if you end up strongly preferring the Axioms over your Paradigms. My brother went from Monitor 9s to Axiom M22s, and the M22s just completely blew the Paradigms away in everything except bass response. I have a pair of M3s and am very happy with em - they're great speakers!
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Re: Anti-Cables (and hello!)
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 5,236
axiomite
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Consider the $1200 cable purchase a lesson learned. I'm sure you can find some other sucker on Ebay or Audiogon.com to buy them back from you for nearly what you paid. After all, they're "burned in" now.  The speaker cable prices from "anti-cables" seemed pretty reasonable, and you get some funky looking cables as a bonus.  Let us know how you like the M3ti's when they arrive!
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Re: Anti-Cables (and hello!)
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 10,654
shareholder in the making
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shareholder in the making
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Spish, hello and welcome to you, too. You're sure to enjoy your M3s when they arrive, but as far as speaker wire, the usual 16ga lampcord supplies everything that they need. Hopefully you were just kidding about those cables, because that isn't the way speaker wires work. For factual information on the point, a study of this explanation by a veteran audio professional is worthwhile.
-----------------------------------
Enjoy the music, not the equipment.
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Re: Anti-Cables (and hello!)
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,155
connoisseur
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Please, Please, PLEASE tell me you are just kidding!!!!
The Rat.
M80s, VP-150, QS8s,
SVS PC 20-39+, OPPO,
Onkyo 703s, Harmony 880
Sony 60" SXRD HDTV
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Re: Anti-Cables (and hello!)
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 552
aficionado
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aficionado
Joined: Apr 2005
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Quote:
Spish, you are a brave man to enter an audio forum with a speaker cable post.
That's what I thought too. I guess you haven't been lurking around here a lot.
Axiom M60s, QS4s, VP100 Onkyo TX-SR804 Oppo 970HD
Rotel RB-1080/RCD-1072 REL Q150E sub, PS 3
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Re: Anti-Cables (and hello!)
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 7,463 Likes: 1
axiomite
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axiomite
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Quote:
Please, Please, PLEASE tell me you are just kidding!!!!
Bernard, I never kid. I am always serious.
Always.
Seriously.
***********
"Nothin' up my sleeve. . ." --Bullwinkle J. Moose
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Re: Anti-Cables (and hello!)
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 6,833
axiomite
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axiomite
Joined: Jun 2003
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The Anticables are not to bad with their prices. I gave more for a set from Axiom than what they want.
Rick
"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud
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Re: Anti-Cables (and hello!)
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 34
enthusiast
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OP
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Joined: Feb 2007
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Quote:
Be prepared for an interesting thread, spish.
It seems that the most obvious area of sonic improvement in anyone's system would be the speakers themselves. If you're willing to drop $1200 on cables, why not go for a better speaker to begin with?
Personally, I don't see how anyone would want to spend more on their cables than on the speakers themselves. But that's just me. But it's good to hear you're happy with the (much more reasonably priced) anti-cables.
And don't be surprised if you end up strongly preferring the Axioms over your Paradigms. My brother went from Monitor 9s to Axiom M22s, and the M22s just completely blew the Paradigms away in everything except bass response. I have a pair of M3s and am very happy with em - they're great speakers!
of course I'll let everyone know how I feel about the M3's!
to answer the 'better speaker' question; that was the plan but several reasons got in the way that all boiled down to money. don't knock the 7's! for $800 you'd be hard pressed to find much else that plays what I like to listen to as well as they do. i bought based on my musical taste, within the budget I had set, rather than what reproduced Maria Calas' voice most accurately. i wanted a well rounded speaker that had (gasp!) bass, good mid and defined highs.
after careful consideration I've decided on the M3's and hope they don't get returned.
as for the cables -- $1200 seemed like peanuts when I bought them and I don't regret it for a second. they were, and still are, great cables. had the Anti's been around when I bought the VD's I surely would have grabbed 'em.
cheers!
-s
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Re: Anti-Cables (and hello!)
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 34
enthusiast
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OP
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Quote:
Quote:
Spish, you are a brave man to enter an audio forum with a speaker cable post.
That's what I thought too. I guess you haven't been lurking around here a lot.
meh, whatever. should I have politely introduced myself and waded into the fray? or posted something about how amazing Axiom is? I'm sure the company is wonderful and I'm looking forward to finding that out for myself. flame away if you like. it's all good. 
-s
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Re: Anti-Cables (and hello!)
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Joined: Jun 2003
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I'm just going to use 12/2 Romex next time.
bibere usque ad hilaritatem
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Re: Anti-Cables (and hello!)
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 5,236
axiomite
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Spish, you are a brave man to enter an audio forum with a speaker cable post.
That's what I thought too. I guess you haven't been lurking around here a lot.
meh, whatever. should I have politely introduced myself and waded into the fray? or posted something about how amazing Axiom is? I'm sure the company is wonderful and I'm looking forward to finding that out for myself. flame away if you like. it's all good.
-s
No need to praise Axiom to stay in good graces around here, but singing the praises of $1200 speaker cables will get you some strange looks.
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Re: Anti-Cables (and hello!)
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 34
enthusiast
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OP
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Quote:
Spish, hello and welcome to you, too. You're sure to enjoy your M3s when they arrive, but as far as speaker wire, the usual 16ga lampcord supplies everything that they need. Hopefully you were just kidding about those cables, because that isn't the way speaker wires work. For factual information on the point, a study of this explanation by a veteran audio professional is worthwhile.
the advice is appreciated but come on over and let's compare 16ga lamp cable to my VD's or the Anti-Cables. anyone that tells me that cables don't make a difference need to A/B my VD's with some lamp cable. you listen with your ears, not your eyes. i'm not here to argue about cables and i'm well aware of the controversial nature of my original post. i was simply stating what i've heard (perhaps your ears aren't well?) and asking if anyone has heard the same.
jeez, the speaker cable debate is like the abortion issue. throw it out there and you get advice from everyone no matter what your actual question is. (oh this should get interesting now!)
and no, i'm not delusional or kidding. the beer's on me should you decide to come over!
-s
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Re: Anti-Cables (and hello!)
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 34
enthusiast
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OP
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Spish, you are a brave man to enter an audio forum with a speaker cable post.
That's what I thought too. I guess you haven't been lurking around here a lot.
meh, whatever. should I have politely introduced myself and waded into the fray? or posted something about how amazing Axiom is? I'm sure the company is wonderful and I'm looking forward to finding that out for myself. flame away if you like. it's all good.
-s
No need to praise Axiom to stay in good graces around here, but singing the praises of $1200 speaker cables will get you some strange looks.
awesome! i'm used to strange looks. like I said, when I bought them $1200 was easy to consider. now i'm married.
what i find particularly frightening is that Virtual Dynamics now sells a set of $30,000 speaker cables. yep, that's 4 zeros. that's insane.
-s
-s
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Re: Anti-Cables (and hello!)
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Joined: Mar 2005
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axiomite
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Quote:
Virtual Dynamics now sells a set of $30,000 speaker cables.
Hmm, what should I do this weekend? Buy some speaker cables, or make a downpayment on a new house. . .
Decisions.
***********
"Nothin' up my sleeve. . ." --Bullwinkle J. Moose
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Re: Anti-Cables (and hello!)
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 34
enthusiast
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Quote:
Quote:
Virtual Dynamics now sells a set of $30,000 speaker cables.
Hmm, what should I do this weekend? Buy some speaker cables, or make a downpayment on a new house. . .
Decisions.
proof that there are still those with more money than brains.
-s
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Re: Anti-Cables (and hello!)
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 845
aficionado
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aficionado
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JohnK, I hope YOU were kidding about using lamp cord. I understand your position on "speaker cables" in general. BUT,.....use that brown lamp cord, here's what will happen.......the few strands of wire left, (after stripping) tarnish quickly, turn green, and before long....the speakers go.......crackle, crackle. Sorry, this is better. Larry 
LIFE: "Choices, balance, and timing"
(Larryism)
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Re: Anti-Cables (and hello!)
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 10,420
shareholder in the making
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shareholder in the making
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Quote:
the advice is appreciated but come on over and let's compare 16ga lamp cable to my VD's or the Anti-Cables. anyone that tells me that cables don't make a difference need to A/B my VD's with some lamp cable. you listen with your ears, not your eyes. i'm not here to argue about cables and i'm well aware of the controversial nature of my original post. i was simply stating what i've heard (perhaps your ears aren't well?) and asking if anyone has heard the same.
jeez, the speaker cable debate is like the abortion issue. throw it out there and you get advice from everyone no matter what your actual question is. (oh this should get interesting now!)
and no, i'm not delusional or kidding. the beer's on me should you decide to come over!
-s
Welcome!
I would really like to hear what $1200 speaker cables can do for sound. But I have better things to spend that kind of money on, wish you lived closer. I could always grab my 4 gauge booster cables and hook them up, should give me incredible sound. 
Seriously, I would like a little more scientific proof that the cables make that much of a difference, like a waveform pattern or something. As it is said that you could be hearing it better because you want to hear it better to justify your spending that much money on cables.
Please try some cheaper 14gauge vs the expensive cables hooked up to the M3's and let us know if it makes a difference with a small bookshelf.
Jason
M80 v2
VP160 v3
QS8 v2
PB13 Ultra
Denon 3808
Samsung 85" Q70
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Re: Anti-Cables (and hello!)
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,333
connoisseur
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connoisseur
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Quote:
I'm just going to use 12/2 Romex next time.
OK, I'll throw my neck on the chopping block here as well...
I just happen to be in the middle of re-wiring the lights in my HT room (Before Katrina we blew on average 1 bulb a week. After seeing the hack wiring job I know why now - so new lights and new wire) and have about 200' of 12/2 Romex left on the spool, so after reading the wire myth link regarding no difference in number of conductors, I just had to test the resistance ... With my trusty FLUKE meter I got 0.40 Ohms, for a solid wire! The same distance of the highly stranded Axiom wire (which I bought for the fronts, by the way, and gladly so) would net 0.68 Ohms.
With that said, I recall a college physics lecture that showed that the majority of sound frequencies, as an electrical signal, travel on the surface of the wire. This was measured as the load on the amp. The greater the number of strands for a given gauge, the easier the job the amp had to hit a particular spl. Of course this wouldn't be the first time I've found out that something I learned in college was complete crap.
Scott
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Re: Anti-Cables (and hello!)
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 6,331
axiomite
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Welcome Spish.
In general, we do our best around here to allow those with differing opinions to express those opinions. Yes, sometimes, to our shame, the discussion gets a bit more heated and insulting than it should. I hope this discussion will not deteriorate to that level.
There are many here, myself included who believe that $1200 speaker wire will provide no audible difference from well constructed, relatively inexpensive speaker wire. We base that believe on scientific study, after double blind test, after scientific study.
There are some here who believe, as you do, that spending a great deal of money on speaker wire can make an audible difference. To the best of my memory, the only evidence I've seen which supports that position has been anecdotal testimony. I have seen no concrete, scientific proof to back that belief.
There is a forum member who takes a lot of unnecessary abuse (and hands it out sometimes, as well) because he is a believer in "trust your ears." I've always been puzzled by that statement. If that means that when you hear a product that sounds "right" or "good" to you, then that's the product for you, I'm in complete agreement. But, if that statement means one's ears, working with one's brain, are infallibly incapable of being fooled, or is not influenced by one's own bias, then I most heartily disagree.
In one of your posts, you said "you listen with your ears, not your eyes." May we then assume your belief that speaker wire will make an audible difference based upon double blind testing, thereby removing your eyes from the equation? If not, then your eyes, and the knowledge that those speaker wires cost $1200, could very well be a factor in your conclusion.
I am not trying to talk you out of your belief. Meaning no disrespect, I am not concerned about you. I am, however, concerned about those who are new and inexperienced, and who come here just looking for some help in figuring out this bewilderingly complicated and expensive hobby. I do not want them to think it necessary to spend $1200 on speaker wire to experience wonderful sound. Therefore it is incumbent upon those of us who think differently from you to state our opinion as often and vociferously as those who hold a differing opinion state theirs.
Once both positions are presented, the inexperienced are free to believe what they wish, to spend as much or as little on speaker wire as they chose, and know that their decision, at least, was based on balanced information and was their own.
Jack
"People generally quarrel because they cannot argue." - G. K. Chesterton
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Re: Anti-Cables (and hello!)
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Joined: Jun 2004
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connoisseur
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Jack As always....... WELL SAID! Quote:
the beer's on me should you decide to come over!
-s
Cool
Where do you live?
LIFE IS SHORT.
DON'T BE A DICK.
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Re: Anti-Cables (and hello!)
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 552
aficionado
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aficionado
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Spish, I totally agree with you, everybody should trust their ears. I also think that we all have a budget in mind when purchasing our equipment. If you think that a certain cable sounds good to you, and you can afford it, then go ahead and buy it. Nobody has the right to tell you not to. Aren't we all adults? This is what I have from SignalCable.com It costed me a little less than $200.00. I also have 2 pairs of SilverCats Interconnects from CatCables (you can see the price there) I know many people may feel this is way excessive, but it is good enough for my ears AND my budget.
Axiom M60s, QS4s, VP100 Onkyo TX-SR804 Oppo 970HD
Rotel RB-1080/RCD-1072 REL Q150E sub, PS 3
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Re: Anti-Cables (and hello!)
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Joined: May 2002
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connoisseur
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Jack, just amazing. You truly are an asset to this community. Thank-you.
Spish, you are a brave man to offer auditions to skeptics. The same factors that Jack was referring to would still apply. Unless the skeptic listened "double blind", his preconceived negative bias toward the cables would skew his perception of what he hears.
Shawn
Epic 80/600 + M3's + M3 Algonquins + M2 Computer + EP125
I think I'm developing an addiction.
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Re: Anti-Cables (and hello!)
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Joined: Feb 2007
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ugh... i think only one or two of you actually answered my original question! (thank you!). i bought the Anti-Cables because they are cheap and people are saying good things about them. it just so happens that (gasp!) they changed the sound of my speakers. there is no denying that fact. like I said, come over (with an open mind) and we'll have a few drinks. I'm in Toronto.
for the rest of the haters: no offense but i don't care about your beliefs. i didn't make up the differencs I heard between cables, the cables made my speakers sound better. period. maybe you're just jealous that I could (at one time) justify $1200 for a set of cables and I could still afford to go out to dinner that night, I don't know and frankly I don't care. with all due respect, the wannabe scientific, so called, "audiophiles" need to get their heads out of their asses long enough to actually LISTEN and forget about applying the scientific method to what they are HEARING. you're clouding your judgment by continually comparing and contrasting what you are hearing to a bunch of crap someone has written, scientifically proven or not. I can't explain it, I don't care to, nor was my question, "could someone please explain the sonic and scientific differences between 14/2 Romex and Kickass Super Duper Sound Cruncher 4000 cable?".
When I get my Axiom's I will listen to them objectively and with a couple of different cables and I'll gladly report back to those who care. However, I'm sure there are many of you who will throw their lamp cable argument in the ring because, I dunno, maybe it makes you feel intellectually superior to we cable "believers".
I'm going to agree to disagree here, which is pretty much how these kind of things always end if they don't end in all out war.
If anyone else cares to answer my original question about Anti-Cables please chime in. Otherwise I'll go post some controversial stuff elsewhere on the board :P
cheers!
-d
(oh boy, this should get interesting now. and i'm sorry if we all got off on the wrong foot here. i'm really not a post-whoring troll, honest!)
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Re: Anti-Cables (and hello!)
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 11,458
shareholder in the making
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shareholder in the making
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[hijack] Jack For President!!! [/hijack]
::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::
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Re: Anti-Cables (and hello!)
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 10,420
shareholder in the making
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shareholder in the making
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Posts: 10,420 |
Quote:
Unless the skeptic listened "double blind", his preconceived negative bias toward the cables would skew his perception of what he hears.
So true.
Jason
M80 v2
VP160 v3
QS8 v2
PB13 Ultra
Denon 3808
Samsung 85" Q70
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Re: Anti-Cables (and hello!)
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 10,420
shareholder in the making
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shareholder in the making
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Quote:
I'm in Toronto.
When I get my Axiom's I will listen to them objectively and with a couple of different cables and I'll gladly report back to those who care. However, I'm sure there are many of you who will throw their lamp cable argument in the ring because, I dunno, maybe it makes you feel intellectually superior to we cable "believers".
If anyone else cares to answer my original question about Anti-Cables please chime in. Otherwise I'll go post some controversial stuff elsewhere on the board :P
cheers!
(oh boy, this should get interesting now. and i'm sorry if we all got off on the wrong foot here. i'm really not a post-whoring troll, honest!)
I do not believe anyone felt you were trolling, we are just expressing our thoughts on the whole speaker cable subject and to post about such expensive cables just really hits home.
You are a couple thousand K's away so unless you are willing to ship them cross country, an audition is not viable. If you are ever in Calgary and have the cables with you drop by and we can try them out
I am always willing to have a listen to my Axioms wired cheap or expensive.
Glad to see you are not overly offended and please stick around, once you get to know this place you will keep coming back. The more views on things the better.
Jason
M80 v2
VP160 v3
QS8 v2
PB13 Ultra
Denon 3808
Samsung 85" Q70
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Re: Anti-Cables (and hello!)
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 845
aficionado
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aficionado
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I am amazed, that this subject STILL creates so much "drama".
Look, let's use logic, and common sense.
OBVIOUSLY, for "high end" speaker cable manufacturers (like Monster, etc.) to STILL be around after all these years...(I got my first set in the 70's)
MEANS,.....that there HAS to be something to it.
IF they, and all the other brands,types, and configurations, did NOTHING.....then the very cables some of you guys seem to loath, would not exist.
Eventually, word of mouth (the very thing that promotes "exotic cables") would have LONG, LONG, ago, done in the concept.
So-called "snake oil" products come, and go (key word here is GO) all the time....BUT EVEN MORE brands, and types of "cables" are with us today.
Although, I have NOT heard any sonic benifits from my interconnect cables.....
I HAVE, (as stated in the past here), heard minor, pleasing, sonic benifits from my bi-wire speaker cables.
I personally, cannot justify spending hundreds, or thousands of dollars on ANY cables, but I can't say (not having heard them) that all the different types out there don't work, or have NO sonic value.
EVEN IF my cables did nothing for the sound quality.....I would STILL buy them, (or a similar brand, and type) for the factory ends, wire gauge, and gold connectors,....... CLEARLY a superior signal pathway/connection.
I think using almost ANY type/brand factory cable, with gold ends, is still FAR better, than ANY lamp cord.
They call it lamp cord for a reason........it's for LAMPS, NOT AMPS.
LIFE: "Choices, balance, and timing"
(Larryism)
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Re: Anti-Cables (and hello!)
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 172
veteran
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veteran
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I respectfully disagree with you. What you have stated is little more than "Argumentum Ad Populum".
“You can never underestimate the stupidity of the general public.”
- Scott Raymond Adams (Dilbert)
"Blame not on stupidity what is best explained by ignorance." - Heinlein
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Re: Anti-Cables (and hello!)
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 845
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 845 |
Also, "there's a sucker born every minuite" (P.T. Barnum) BUT.......if there were THIS many "suckers", for THIS many years,....none of us would likely have time to be on the boards.....we would ALL have companies, selling stuff to them! It's still an interesting thread.........Spish made a splash,.... Ajax added some class,..... and JohnK...can't be swayed.........even though his wires are likley frayed.
LIFE: "Choices, balance, and timing"
(Larryism)
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Re: Anti-Cables (and hello!)
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Joined: Dec 2003
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axiomite
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axiomite
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 6,331 |
Quote:
ugh... i think only one or two of you actually answered my original question! (thank you!).
First I would point out that any question asked here is a request. I can't speak for anyone else here, but the more that request comes off as a demand, the less interested I am in providing an answer. However, since the only question I could find in your first post, thus making it your "original question," had to do with anyone hearing of Anti-Cables. I have no qualms in answering "Nope"
I will concur that referring to those who disagree with you as "haters," implying that anyone who disagrees with you may simply be "jealous that [you] could (at one time) justify $1200 for a set of cables and [you] could still afford to go out to dinner that night," calling those of us who would rather trust scientific evidence rather than your ears "wannabe scientific," referring to those who disagree with you as "so called, audiophiles," and suggesting that those who disagree with you "need to get their heads out of their asses," does indeed make you appear to be a post-whoring troll," and is certainly not going to encourage anyone to answer your questions, or feel warm and fuzzy about your presence here.
Everyone is free to express their opinions here. But how you express them has a lot to do with how you are treated. It's your choice.
Jack
"People generally quarrel because they cannot argue." - G. K. Chesterton
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Re: Anti-Cables (and hello!)
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 18,044
shareholder in the making
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shareholder in the making
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 18,044 |
Perhaps it is important to note what the margins are on all cables. I worked for a company that merged with a cable reseller (computer cables, but...) The margins were insane. SCSI cables cost the reseller about $1, they were sold for $80. It is a snake oil industry--or at least one that knows it has the market cornered.
And there's plenty of suckers out there, for all sorts of things. Certain types of "medicine" spring to mind.
I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!
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axiomite
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I don't feel like I can live up to Jack's prose today, and his eloquence seems to have had no effect on the level of discourse, anyway, so in the spirit of the intolerance displayed by the original poster and the context of our fourth gray month in a row... Quote:
they changed the sound of my speakers
How do you KNOW this? Did you do double blind listening? I'm quite sure they changed your perception of the sound of your speakers, and they may very well have changed the objective sound, but how can any of us know for sure?
Quote:
or the rest of the haters:
Okay, I'm going to call BS on this. I didn't hear anybody "hate" anything, and for you to tar multiple, unspecified individuals with the term "hater" is inflammatory bigotry, at best.
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no offense but i don't care about your beliefs
I tell my children that if you have to start a sentence with that disclaimer, you obviously KNOW it is going to offend someone and you ought not say it. If you don't care about other people's beliefs, why ask a question on a public message board?
Quote:
maybe you're just jealous that I could (at one time) justify $1200 for a set of cables
Maybe I'm just jealous of your superior intellect or golden ears. Your assertion was the most condescending thing I've read in a long time. Grow up.
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frankly I don't care. with all due respect, the wannabe scientific, so called, "audiophiles" need to get their heads out of their asses long enough...
Entirely disrespectful and uncalled for.
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and i'm sorry if we all got off on the wrong foot here. i'm really not a post-whoring troll, honest!
Hogwash. You're not sorry and you are a troll.
bibere usque ad hilaritatem
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Re: Anti-Cables (and hello!)
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 6,331
axiomite
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axiomite
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 6,331 |
Quote:
Look, let's use logic, and common sense.
OBVIOUSLY, for "high end" speaker cable manufacturers (like Monster, etc.) to STILL be around after all these years...(I got my first set in the 70's)
MEANS,.....that there HAS to be something to it.
Ok, let's use logic and common sense. My response to the above statement is, Why? Why does something, anything, STILL being around after all these years prove that there HAS to be something to it?
Since inexpensive speaker wire has been around as many years, if not more years, than expensive speaker wire, couldn't the same argument be made in it's favor?
Quote:
IF they, and all the other brands,types, and configurations, did NOTHING.....then the very cables some of you guys seem to loath, would not exist.
First, I don't believe any of us "loathe" any particular cable. What we "loathe" is anyone spending an unnecessary amount of money on cables under the impression that extra expense is going to make their system sound better that any reasonably priced, well made, speaker cable.
I'm sure that $1200 speaker cables sound good, and would happily use them if given to me, or if I could get them for a reasonable price. It is my opinion, and I assume that of the others who agree with me, that well made $30 speaker cable will provide equally good sound. One could easily argue that those on your side of the argument "loathe" the inexpensive cable, since you would probably not use them at any price.
Quote:
EVEN IF my cables did nothing for the sound quality.....I would STILL buy them, (or a similar brand, and type) for the factory ends, wire gauge, and gold connectors,....... CLEARLY a superior signal pathway/connection.
And that brings up something I've said many times before. "Because I like it," and "because I want it" are two perfectly valid reasons for any purchase. No one need justify how, or on what, they spend their money. But, when recommending to others how, or on what, they spend theirs, I feel some justification is necessary. YMMV
Jack
"People generally quarrel because they cannot argue." - G. K. Chesterton
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Re: Anti-Cables (and hello!)
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aficionado
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Hey if he wants to spend $1200 on cables and he can afford it... well it's his money.
On the other hand I told my buddy that I just bought a new sub (EP-500) and it cost me $1300. He thinks I'm nuts. I guess it's all a matter of perspective.
2xM80 VP180 2xQS8 2xM3 HSU STF3 LG 60PS11 Denon 3808 ATI 1506 LCR 2xATI 1502 Oppo BDP-83
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Re: Anti-Cables (and hello!)
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Hi Splish... I happen to disagree with you about cables and hope I'm not lumped in with the 'haters' you alluded to (Although I'm sure I am). Show me a link to a double blind study or other evidence that supports your belief, and I'll have an open mind and consider it. All I have ever seen is the opposite. You've got the "I know what I hear" approach. Not good enough. Though Anti-Cables seem to be a descent cable at a descent price, I don't believe they'll change the way my M80's sound. My 16 gauge wire will do nicely, thank you. Speakers and room acoustics are the dynamic duo to concentrate on. Hmm, guess what NUMBER 1 is in this article? The Ten Biggest Lies in AudioIt's not a double-blind study, (although there are plenty to be found online), but it sums up my approach. You're entitled to your opinion, but please don't bash others who don't agree.
Epic 80 / SVS PB13 Ultra
Denon 3805 / M2200 Outlaw Monos /
Sammy 55" LED
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connoisseur
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connoisseur
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Quote:
I could always grab my 4 gauge booster cables and hook them up, should give me incredible sound.
You might be onto something here, mabey we can setup a double blind listening test to see if it will make a difference? I think we should start with a 4 gauge cable to the sub carrying the .1 LFE, I can't wait to see what that would sound like!
Last edited by Hutzal; 02/20/07 10:47 PM.
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Re: Anti-Cables (and hello!)
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axiomite
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axiomite
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Quote:
BUT.......if there were THIS many "suckers", for THIS many years,....none of us would likely have time to be on the boards.....we would ALL have companies, selling stuff to them!
Nuff Said
Quote:
...Spish made a splash,.... Ajax added some class,..... and JohnK...can't be swayed.........even though his wires are likley frayed.
Good stuff! Sums up this thread very nicely!
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Come on!! You guys are forgetting that cryogenic freezing has the biggest impact on sound!! It aligns the space-time continuum within the cable to provide a zero resistance path for electrons to flow into the flux capacitor. (Oil impregnated, of course)
Shawn
Epic 80/600 + M3's + M3 Algonquins + M2 Computer + EP125
I think I'm developing an addiction.
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Re: Anti-Cables (and hello!)
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I think the speaker wire controversy (at least on this board) boils down to four "camps".
#1. Those, who have bought, used, (or in this case heard), a good product, and want others to benefit from their experience, and post about it.
#2. Those, generally parsimonious, who say "cables" do not work, and "parrot" other, like minded board members. In reality, it is just their plausible excuse.....what they really don't like........... is the PRICE.
#3. Those, more "scientific" that say there is no proof, etc. This "type"...almost exclusively, not only have never sought their own proof, (hearing for themselves) they endlessly link web blurbs, and graphs, etc...quote others, relying that all that is claimed, is 100% correct.....so they can repeat it.
#4. Those "new" board members, (who come along every so often), usually rude, and obnoxious, who like to "stir the pot", with this subject....knowing others will sooner, or later....go too far. They claim they are "new", and never ment to cause the chaos...and sit back and laugh at those who fall for it...........EVERY time.
With all these "camps".....let's all be "happy campers" ok?
LIFE: "Choices, balance, and timing"
(Larryism)
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Re: Anti-Cables (and hello!)
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 18,044
shareholder in the making
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shareholder in the making
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 18,044 |
No.
You know why? You implicitly insult anyone in groups 2 or 3 (and 4) because they don't agree with you. Not cool.
Now, here's my 2 cents, just because everyone else is throwing money in the pot.
Some cables are different--because they modify the signal in some way. If they're thinner than optimal for accurate transmission, they roll off the top a little bit (because of increased resistance). This can be interpreted as "warmer." If they have exotic includes (like capacitors or other), they adjust the sound in other ways.
Many cables just accurately transmit the signal, just like other cables--including those horrible, horrible 16 gauge cables.
I would link some papers, but obviously that's not allowed or believable.
I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!
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Re: Anti-Cables (and hello!)
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,805
connoisseur
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connoisseur
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Quote:
I think the speaker wire controversy (at least on this board) boils down to four "camps".
#1. Those, who have bought, used, (or in this case heard), a good product, and want others to benefit from their experience, and post about it.
#2. Those, generally parsimonious, who say "cables" do not work, and "parrot" other, like minded board members. In reality, it is just their plausible excuse.....what they really don't like........... is the PRICE.
#3. Those, more "scientific" that say there is no proof, etc. This "type"...almost exclusively, not only have never sought their own proof, (hearing for themselves) they endlessly link web blurbs, and graphs, etc...quote others, relying that all that is claimed, is 100% correct.....so they can repeat it.
#4. Those "new" board members, (who come along every so often), usually rude, and obnoxious, who like to "stir the pot", with this subject....knowing others will sooner, or later....go too far. They claim they are "new", and never ment to cause the chaos...and sit back and laugh at those who fall for it...........EVERY time.
With all these "camps".....let's all be "happy campers" ok?
You forgot #5
#5. Those who dont give a rats ass. 
LIFE IS SHORT.
DON'T BE A DICK.
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Re: Anti-Cables (and hello!)
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 5,236
axiomite
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axiomite
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 5,236 |
Quote:
I think the speaker wire controversy (at least on this board) boils down to four "camps".
#1. Those, who have bought, used, (or in this case heard), a good product, and want others to benefit from their experience, and post about it.
#2. Those, generally parsimonious, who say "cables" do not work, and "parrot" other, like minded board members. In reality, it is just their plausible excuse.....what they really don't like........... is the PRICE.
#3. Those, more "scientific" that say there is no proof, etc. This "type"...almost exclusively, not only have never sought their own proof, (hearing for themselves) they endlessly link web blurbs, and graphs, etc...quote others, relying that all that is claimed, is 100% correct.....so they can repeat it.
#4. Those "new" board members, (who come along every so often), usually rude, and obnoxious, who like to "stir the pot", with this subject....knowing others will sooner, or later....go too far. They claim they are "new", and never ment to cause the chaos...and sit back and laugh at those who fall for it...........EVERY time.
With all these "camps".....let's all be "happy campers" ok?
Was that meant in any way to be a objective summary?
Regardless, I don't belong to any of those "camps". I've read countless heated debates on the issue, and decided to check it out for myself. I bought some pricey cables, and compared them in my own living room with some cheap 16g copper. I heard no difference. I sold the fancy cables. I do like the "look" of big beefy cables though, so I built some of my own using this, this, this, and finally, these. Now they just look fancy and expensive, when in reality they cost me about $60 for the pair and were a hoot to make.
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Re: Anti-Cables (and hello!)
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axiomite
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axiomite
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Nice links, Craig. Thanks!
bibere usque ad hilaritatem
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Re: Anti-Cables (and hello!)
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 845
aficionado
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aficionado
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Kcarlile,
I think that's a cheap shot...telling other board members they should be/feel insulted by my post...THAT was far more likley to incite, than anything I said.
If we are going to be hyper-sensitive about feelings...maybe some here should not always tell those who post about this, "YOU ARE HEARING THINGS,AND HAVE WASTED YOUR MONEY".....I guess that mantra is ok.
Spiffnme,
Just my observations.
Bray,
I think there IS a #5.
#5. Those who, even when they know better......post ANYTHING in a speaker wire thread.
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Re: Anti-Cables (and hello!)
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Posts: 1,155
connoisseur
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connoisseur
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,155 |
I think that several posters on this thread should go back and review their high school physics! If the R, L, C parameters of one cable are the same (or very nearly the same) as another cable, then, THERE IS NO AUDIO DIFFERENCE TO YOUR SPEAKERS!!!!
PERIOD!!!!!!
Anyone or any company that tells you different is just full of BS!!!!
I sure do get tired of going through this same set of crap at least once or twice a year.
Fact not Fiction!
The Rat.
M80s, VP-150, QS8s,
SVS PC 20-39+, OPPO,
Onkyo 703s, Harmony 880
Sony 60" SXRD HDTV
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Re: Anti-Cables (and hello!)
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 18,044
shareholder in the making
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shareholder in the making
Joined: May 2003
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Cancel that. I'm withdrawing from this argument.
Last edited by kcarlile; 02/21/07 12:49 AM.
I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!
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Re: Anti-Cables (and hello!)
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 108
veteran
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veteran
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Here we go an here i go , i DO HAVE A Set of the Anti Cable's an i love em i switched from MIT 2's an thought that the Detail an Bass was better an so for me it payed off but i did have a couple different budds come over at Different times an let them hear them for themselves to see what they thought an they genuinely liked them better than the MIT 2's , So that is my 2 cents worth
If You Are Gonna Do It , Do It Right !!!
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Re: Anti-Cables (and hello!)
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veteran
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veteran
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"Semper ubi sub ubi ubique"
Words we can all live by.
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Re: Anti-Cables (and hello!)
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axiomite
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axiomite
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I always do. 
Jack
"People generally quarrel because they cannot argue." - G. K. Chesterton
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Re: Anti-Cables (and hello!)
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enthusiast
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OP
enthusiast
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this is freakin' awesome! if only I were a sociology major. this would me amazing material for a thesis. could someone articulate a thesis that involves a room full of people from all over the world, who happen to share a love of audio (whether or not it's musical), speaker wire, and the veil of the Internet? i'm pretty sure if we were all sitting face to face this discussion would have taken on a very different tone. i thank you for your time! i'm out. oh, I got my M3's today. hooked them up to the amp with some 26ga telephone grade twisted pair and you know what? they sound like sh!t! now if only the laws of physics could fix that problem... it's amazing what a good set of cables can do. love, spish (dreaming up the next controversial post)
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Re: Anti-Cables (and hello!)
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connoisseur
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>>oh, I got my M3's today. hooked them up to the amp with some 26ga telephone grade twisted pair and you know what? they sound like sh!t! now if only the laws of physics could fix that problem>>
Did you calibrate them properly?
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Re: Anti-Cables (and hello!)
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veteran
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veteran
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If only I knew how to say "you are a tool" in latin ...
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Re: Anti-Cables (and hello!)
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axiomite
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axiomite
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'Vos es a tool'
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Re: Anti-Cables (and hello!)
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Posts: 683
aficionado
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aficionado
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Quote:
oh, I got my M3's today. hooked them up to the amp with some 26ga telephone grade twisted pair and you know what? they sound like sh!t! now if only the laws of physics could fix that problem...
Well, if you had allowed the minimum break-in period for the M3's and the wire (I believe it's 6 hours at reference level), the M3's would sing!!
Your trollish behavior impresses.
Epic 80 / SVS PB13 Ultra
Denon 3805 / M2200 Outlaw Monos /
Sammy 55" LED
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Re: Anti-Cables (and hello!)
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 4,444 Likes: 16
connoisseur
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connoisseur
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 4,444 Likes: 16 |
Main Entry: malicious
Part of Speech: adjective
Definition: hateful
Synonyms: awful, bad-natured, baleful, beastly, bitchy, bitter, catty*, cussed, deleterious, despiteful, detrimental, envious, evil, evil-minded, green*, green-eyed*, gross*, ill-disposed, injurious, jealous, low, malevolent, malign, malignant, mean, mischievous, nasty, noxious, ornery, pernicious, pesky, petty, poison-pen, poisonous, rancorous, resentful, spiteful, uncool*, vengeful, venomous, vicious, virulent, wicked
Antonyms: benevolent
Notes: while malevolent suggests deep and lasting dislike, malicious usually means petty and spiteful
------------------
Why would you guys fall for this? Maybe you like confrontation more than you want to admit???
A first time poster posts he’s bought a set of M3’s to use with his $1200 speaker cables and you bit.
I ain’t the brightest bulb on the tree by any means, but still saw through his BS. You all really need to learn how to laugh at folks like this before you end up taking years off your life.
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Re: Anti-Cables (and hello!)
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connoisseur
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Awww jeeze, You had to go and ruin all the fun eh?
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Re: Anti-Cables (and hello!)
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Posts: 3,749 Likes: 37
connoisseur
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connoisseur
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Posts: 3,749 Likes: 37 |
First of all, I don't think JohnK's cables are frayed - I think He uses string ... just as good you know! My favorite speaker cables are the Mapleshade Clearview Double Helix Plus ... with my 5wpc SET amp, Ah! 4000 CDP, M3s or Michaura M55s or M66s ... music ecstasy. 
Enjoy the Music. Trust your ears. Laugh at Folks Who Claim to Know it All.
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 Re: Anti-Cables (and hello!)
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Joined: Jan 2007
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frequent flier
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frequent flier
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Quote:
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
BUT.......if there were THIS many "suckers", for THIS many years,....none of us would likely have time to be on the boards.....we would ALL have companies, selling stuff to them!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nuff Said
So, spish is stoned for calling us haters, but spiffnme gets off scott-free after calling all religious persons "suckers?" Talk about a definition of malice.
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Re: Anti-Cables (and hello!)
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Posts: 8,488
axiomite
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axiomite
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 8,488 |
Quote:
the brightest bulb on the tree
What kind of trees do you have up there in Alaska, Mike?
Sure, my antenna doesn't pick up all the channels and I'm a few clowns short of a circus most days. And who among us has exactly the right amount of yardage between the goal posts, or the precise spacing between the flippers? My belt goes through almost all the loops, and I've proven that I'm smarter than bait. I've demonstrated my ability to pour water out of a boot as long as the instructions are on the heel.
I long ago accepted that I'm a few Cokes short of a six pack, a taco short of a combination plate, several peas short of a casserole, a few fries short of a happy meal, and, most importantly, a few feathers short of a whole duck.
But I have all my dogs on one leash, and I'm more beer than foam.
I think it was medic8r doing research on us clandestinely.
bibere usque ad hilaritatem
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Re: Anti-Cables (and hello!)
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,569
connoisseur
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connoisseur
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Trolle bitte nicht füttern!
3M80 2M22 6QS8 2M2 1EP500 Sony BDP-S590 Panny-7000 Onkyo-3007 Carada-134 Xbox Buttkicker AS-EQ1
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Re: Anti-Cables (and hello!)
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axiomite
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axiomite
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Good one Tom. I find myself wondering why Mike deigns to hang out with all of us REALLY STUPID PEOPLE!
Jack
"People generally quarrel because they cannot argue." - G. K. Chesterton
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Re: Anti-Cables (and hello!)
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 10,420
shareholder in the making
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shareholder in the making
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 10,420 |
Quote:
oh, I got my M3's today. hooked them up to the amp with some 26ga telephone grade twisted pair and you know what? they sound like sh!t! now if only the laws of physics could fix that problem...
it's amazing what a good set of cables can do.
Ya, a good set of 14 gauge from home depot would fix that right up. 26 gauge barely cuts it as wire let alone speaker wire.
Any ways have you tried the M3's with your ultra expensive cables vs normal gauged(16-14) wire and do you notice a difference (honestly)? AS they are bookshelves and do not need high amps, I would suspect not a very noticeable difference if any.
Jason
M80 v2
VP160 v3
QS8 v2
PB13 Ultra
Denon 3808
Samsung 85" Q70
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Re: Anti-Cables (and hello!)
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 7,463 Likes: 1
axiomite
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axiomite
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Posts: 7,463 Likes: 1 |
Tom, that was classic!
***********
"Nothin' up my sleeve. . ." --Bullwinkle J. Moose
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Re: Anti-Cables (and hello!)
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Posts: 45
buff
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buff
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Quote:
If only I knew how to say "you are a tool" in latin ...
Quote:
'Vos es a tool'
LMAO!
Steve
Axiom M60v2, VP100v2, SVS SB12-Plus
Yamaha HTR-5990, Oppo DV-981HD
Samsung LN-S4692D
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Re: Anti-Cables (and hello!)
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Posts: 4,444 Likes: 16
connoisseur
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 4,444 Likes: 16 |
Quote:
Quote:
the brightest bulb on the tree
What kind of trees do you have up there in Alaska, Mike?
Sure, my antenna doesn't pick up all the channels and I'm a few clowns short of a circus most days. And who among us has exactly the right amount of yardage between the goal posts, or the precise spacing between the flippers? My belt goes through almost all the loops, and I've proven that I'm smarter than bait. I've demonstrated my ability to pour water out of a boot as long as the instructions are on the heel.
I long ago accepted that I'm a few Cokes short of a six pack, a taco short of a combination plate, several peas short of a casserole, a few fries short of a happy meal, and, most importantly, a few feathers short of a whole duck.
But I have all my dogs on one leash, and I'm more beer than foam.
I think it was medic8r doing research on us clandestinely.
Well they're funny looking if that means anything.
And hey dudes, I wuz jus tryn to get y'alls to spit the sh!t out yr mouths u bit into.
didn't mean to imply you weren't bright.
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Re: Anti-Cables (and hello!)
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,155
connoisseur
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connoisseur
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,155 |
Guess that it is a little early for an April Fools joke, but, I guess, you never know. LOL!!!
The Rat.
M80s, VP-150, QS8s,
SVS PC 20-39+, OPPO,
Onkyo 703s, Harmony 880
Sony 60" SXRD HDTV
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Re: Anti-Cables (and hello!)
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3
newbie
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newbie
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3 |
I ordered the Anti-Cables when I had my McIntosh MA230 refurbished for something good to use while auditioning speakers. My thought was that they are inexpensive to try and the science behind their working well made sense to me. So far, I've been very happy. If you check out Paul Speltz' Zero-former web site and read the testimonials, you are not alone by any means as to getting as good or better results than with cables costing in excess of $1000 dollars or more.
There seems to be a lot of "smoke and mirrors" in the audio wire business (and psycho-acoustical B.S. as well). I wanted something that made sense for the least amount of dielectric loss, which all wires with any kind of heavy coating (teflon, etc.)increase. Different configurations of multiple strands and materials do wierd things, as well.
This is not necessarily a bad thing, if it gives you the synergy between your amp and speakers that you want. Unlike the guy who responded that uses 16 gauge zip, I noticed a huge difference in sound between 16 gauge Acoustic Research HT wire and the Anti-Cables when auditioning a pair of speakers at an audio shop using my Mac... so cables and ICs, can make a difference. The bottom line is, is the result what you like to hear? I wanted to start with something I believed would deliver the least degraded signal and go from there.
That so many people have bettered or equaled cables costing ridiculous amounts of money (as well as 2 "audiophile" magazines) bares out the scientific principles that apply to Anti-Cables. My only gripes with them is they're a pain to wrap and set up when taking my amp around to audition speakers (permanent set up will be just fine), and the vintage spades supplied for hook up to my Mac were a little too big. I ended up breaking a divider fin on the Mac's barrier strip (no biggie)... but I'm a believer in the product, and that anyone who doesn't try these first before spending so much more for (let's face it) 2 wires is just plain foolish.
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