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Re: Analog or digital?
#16348 07/31/03 05:43 AM
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Geez. You would have thought that I would have looked at the neato cable. How strange.

Ah! Wait! We did it with that POS Zenith DVD player that you had. Which, probably, did have coax. So there! Nyah!


I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!
Re: Analog or digital?
#16349 07/31/03 04:12 PM
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I was here first!

Re: Analog or digital?
#16350 07/31/03 04:41 PM
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WHat's your Axiom setup?


------- Saint Harman Kardon AVR-120,Axiom VP100,Axiom M22Ti, Axiom QS8, Axiom EP-175
Re: Analog or digital?
#16351 07/31/03 06:02 PM
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I've basically got an Epic 80 set up with a pair of M22's for the rears in a 7.1 configuration.

Re: Analog or digital?
#16352 07/31/03 07:54 PM
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Hey folks, I don't want to incite yet another flame war here, but Tom_Bombadil, a highly reasonable guy who frequents the AVSforum, claims that he could actually hear sonic differences among different CD/DVD players and DAC's in blind tests. He openly admits that the same is NOT true among solidstate amps and pre-amps -- he says he has almost never been able to hear a difference among them (which, to me, makes his claims more trustworthy).

Here are exerpts from his recent posts in the AVSforum:

While I have participated in a number of double-blind tests which have created serious doubts in me as to the differences in solid-state amps (however I can't say that all of them sound the same), and pretty much the same from any reasonable quality solid-state preamp (although I believe they can be made to be different), the same tests have confirmed to me that there can be pretty significant differences between CD & DVD players, external DACs, and receivers functioning as same.

...

I too have brought in some very well-regarded high-end amps and preamps and spent 2-3 days with them, conducting double-blind tests toward the end of those periods, and was never able to discern much of a difference. With the exception of some tube gear, which is quite understandably different.

I own low- to mid-level amps from Parasound, Audio Alchemy, Rotel, Cary, and the amp-in accessable amp in my HK AVR8000 (yes, I own 5 amps). I've tested various combinations of these amps against gear from Pass, Krell, Aragon, BAT, and Threshold. (and I've run even more comparisons in friends' homes and on dealer showfloors.) I've yet to see anyone pass one of these comparisons.

One of those dealer-floor comparisons was an Adcom 5500 vs a BAT amp through some very expensive speakers. Neither I nor the salesman were able to tell them apart. The sound was magnificent through both.

But I have passed multiple CD/DAC comparisons, and found a couple of them quite easy to pass. I've failed my share too. I've twice upgraded my CD gear after passing and loving the difference.

So based on these experiences, the primary money in my system has been spent on the CD front end and my speakers. There may be differences in the way that amps sound, but I've yet to hear any difference that justified the cost of upgrading ... at least with solid state gear.



What would y'all say on these claims?

Re: Analog or digital?
#16353 07/31/03 08:03 PM
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First thing, I'd wonder what he meant by "reasonable quality solid-state preamp" or amp. I don't have too much trouble believing the DAC issue; there must be significant design issues/differences with DACs.

However, does this mean he is advocating high quality/price external DACs with high quality/price CD carriers, or can you "get away with" reasonable quality CD players? Or even high quality/price external DAC with a "cheap/reasonable quality" CD carrier/player?


I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!
Re: Analog or digital?
#16354 07/31/03 09:56 PM
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He's not specific enough for me to ascertain what exactly he's testing. If he's saying he can hear the difference between DACs, I'd believe him. I wouldn't be surprised if he hears a difference between the DAC in a CD player v. the DAC in a receiver v. the DAC in a better CD player. What I would be surprised and heavily skeptical of is if he claims he can hear the difference between CD players when outputting in digital.

But I can't tell exactly what he's compared.

Re: Analog or digital?
#16355 07/31/03 10:51 PM
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Masa, Tom doesn't give any details of the procedures, and the mere statement that he's "passed" some and "failed" others would appear to be meaningless. There are always participants in blind tests who "pass" some of the tests and then might "fail" the same test when it's repeated. I would suspect that the overall results, if the testing was run properly, failed to show differences.


-----------------------------------

Enjoy the music, not the equipment.


Re: Analog or digital?
#16356 08/01/03 12:04 AM
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sushi,
I tend to agree with JohnK and Semi with their lines of thinking.
The individual has not provided very much detail on exactly what was tested making it difficult to comment on his opinions.
From my limited testing when searching for cdps, my wife and i could not hear any difference b/w 2 models (Panasonic and Hitachi), nor b/w the analog and digital when using the Onkyo 797 receiver.


"Those who preach the myths of audio are ignorant of truth."
Re: Analog or digital?
#16357 08/01/03 08:27 AM
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Yeah, I see what you guys are saying...

As judged by the context and from his other posts, he was talking about the quality of DACs and associated circuits, i.e., sonic differences via the analog connection from the players.

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