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Re: question for the pro's on M80's or M22's
Wid #165608 04/19/07 01:04 AM
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I pretty much leave everything to small, with 80hz crossover for music and movies. For me, that is the best compromise. I don't want to change my receiver every time I change sources anyway.

Your mileage may vary.


M80s VP180 4xM22ow 4xM3ic EP600 2xEP350
AnthemAVM60 Outlaw7700 EmoA500 Epson5040UB FluanceRT85


Re: question for the pro's on M80's or M22's
SirQuack #165609 04/25/07 03:05 AM
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Been a long time since I posted anything here, but I keep up with most of what is going on. Anyway, I have a couple questions about crossovers. I have the epic 60 500 system, and even though I have had it for a year I still find myself just begining to learn how things work. Right now I have a Yamaha 5960 reciever. I plan on upgrading to one of the new 1.3 onkyo recievers that I see are coming down the pipe because of the hdmi 1.3 connection and it being able to decode the lossless tracks. Anyway, back to my questions, With my setup now I cannot adjust the crossover for each speaker, but with the new reciever I will be able to do so. With these speakers what should I set the crossover for on each of them. Everything is set to small except the M60's. They are at the large setting.


7.1 theater room
60 fronts vp180 center 4 qs8's ep500 sub

3.0 tv room
m3's vp150 center
Re: question for the pro's on M80's or M22's
jhunt17 #165610 04/25/07 03:41 AM
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JH, my suggestion is that even now the M60s should be set "small". Although they do a pretty good job in the lowest bass, your EP500 does even better there and should be given the responsibility, while relieving the M60s of some of the load(which should allow them to play a little cleaner on the higher frequencies). Even with the new Onkyo, which will have more flexible settings available, I'd still suggest setting everything small with an 80Hz crossover.


-----------------------------------

Enjoy the music, not the equipment.


Re: question for the pro's on M80's or M22's
axiom_man #165611 04/25/07 10:16 PM
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Alan's input is quite valuable in explaining the subtle point of slope in the low pass filter at the amp/receiver. If I understand correctly, when the cross over is set to 80Hz and the slope is 24dB/octave then the M80s will produce 40Hz but at a level that is 24dB less and 20Hz at a level that is 48dB less. Higher the listening level, the more prounced the work by M80 at this low frequency. If the slope is less steep (12dB/octave or 6dB/octave) or if the cross-over is set lower, bass duty for the M80 would be proportionally higher. This is the basis for setting physically large speakers like the M80 to "small" in order to unburden them of low frequency work at high listening levels. While there is no "brick-wall" on the receiver side regarding the low-pass cross-over, Alan's recent article on subwoofer calibration indicates that the cross-over point in DSP-driven EP subwoofers actually resemble a brick-wall (i.e, no slope). He recommends setting the cross-over at the EP subs to same cross-over as in the receiver. I think many of us would like some more explanation on this before cascading the cross-overs.
John


John
Our HT

Re: question for the pro's on M80's or M22's
ihifi #165612 04/25/07 10:38 PM
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John,

I already started a thread on Alan's recent article in the newsletter.

Randy

http://www.axiomaudio.com/boards/showfla...;gonew=1#UNREAD


M80s VP180 4xM22ow 4xM3ic EP600 2xEP350
AnthemAVM60 Outlaw7700 EmoA500 Epson5040UB FluanceRT85


Re: question for the pro's on M80's or M22's
jhunt17 #165613 04/27/07 12:27 AM
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Quote:

Been a long time since I posted anything here, but I keep up with most of what is going on. Anyway, I have a couple questions about crossovers. I have the epic 60 500 system, and even though I have had it for a year I still find myself just begining to learn how things work. Right now I have a Yamaha 5960 reciever. I plan on upgrading to one of the new 1.3 onkyo recievers that I see are coming down the pipe because of the hdmi 1.3 connection and it being able to decode the lossless tracks. Anyway, back to my questions, With my setup now I cannot adjust the crossover for each speaker, but with the new reciever I will be able to do so. With these speakers what should I set the crossover for on each of them. Everything is set to small except the M60's. They are at the large setting.




I see two questions, firstly what to use with your Yamaha receiver with only one universal crossover setting and secondly, what settings for the Onkyo which like most of the current crop of receivers allow individual speaker bass managenent.

One of the most important benefits of redirecting bass to the subwoofer is the improved dynamic range of the speakers which comes from lessening the load on the amplifier from reproducing LF sounds. Your Yamaha is rated at 7 x 100W and would benefit from redirecting as much bass as you can to the EP500. Because you can only use one setting I suggest you run all speakers crossed at 80hz for improved dynamic range, noting that the vp150 extends to 85HZ+/-3db, the M60 37hz+-/3db and the QS8s 95hz+/-3db. Note that because you can apply only one universal setting the blend between the EP500 and the surrounds and centre won't be as smooth as the blend between the mains and the sub. That's a typical problem with using the same crossover setting for all the sats. Ideally all the speakers blend smoothly with the sub.

With the more advanced bass management features of the Onkyo the picture changes. My starting rule of thumb before tweaking for mains is to set the crossover 1/2 octave above the +/-3db LF extension which in the case of the M60 would be 1.5 x 37hz or 55hz. I would set the vp150 at the +/- 3db extension or 85hz and the QS8s at 95hz. I cross my QS8s at 100hz because my processor only adjusts by 10hz increments.

The next step is some careful measuring of the M60/EP500 crossover with a good calibration disc like Avia and SPL metre and some critical listening. Your room acoustics may require a slightly higher or lower setting to obtain a smoother FR around the crossover point.


John
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