Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion The Water Cooler My Emotiva LMC-1 Review

Since we're all audio nuts, I thought that perhaps I'd share my recent experience...

Back in January I purchased the Emotiva LPA-1 to power my M80’s. It has been a fantastic amp that made a real difference in my system. It was a good purchase. My Pioneer Elite AVR has been my pre-amp since then. About a week ago I decided to purchase the matching preprocessor, the LMC-1, to see if it would offer any improvements over the Pioneer. I knew the LMC-1 would be a little bit down on features compared to the Pioneer, but the 40% off upgrade plan meant that in a year or so I’d trade it in on something even better.

The Hardware. The build quality is solid. None of the rear connectors jiggle and the internal wiring that I can see looks nicely wrapped and routed. All of the connectors were consistent and all of them worked well with my cables. No mis-shaped toslink connectors to be found here! I am not overly fond of the ‘plasticy’ knobs on the front, but they do track nicely and I would rarely touch them anyway. It looks nice sitting next to the LPA-1. It also has a heck of a decent FM tuner. This thing was pulling in stations that I hadn’t ever heard of, and popular, slightly-fuzzy ones were crystal clear. I rarely listen to FM anymore, but I might more often with the LMC-1. While I couldn’t test it, and have no current use for it, the included HDMI switcher looks nice. Very nice that it’s included and not a separate $49.99 add-on. The remote is simple, but extremely effective. Many of the functions of the LMC have their own discrete button (sub level, center level, etc). This is very handy, compared to the 5-6 button clicks that it requires to adjust a speaker level on my Pioneer.

The Software. The LMC-1 is a model of simplicity. There are no fancy ‘Midnight’ modes, or auto calibration, nor ways of tweaking the surround sound modes. Bass, treble and speaker levels are all you get. It is pleasantly refreshing in many ways, but somewhat disappointing in others. The speaker calibration levels are set globally and apply to all sources, including the EXT7.1 analog inputs. The built in pink noise test is fine for speakers, but it lacks low-end tones to properly calibrate a sub. It’s basically the same signal sent to all speakers, and not a dedicated LFE-test signal to the sub. You need a test DVD to calibrate the system properly. There also isn’t a ‘Pure Analog’ mode, as all signals are converted by its processor.

It does have a video 'up'-conversion (in the sense that a component video input is 'up'-converted to s-video or composite) of all video inputs (component, S-vid, composite) to whatever output you use, which makes it very handy as a ‘one-cable’ connection to the TV. Of curious note, my DVR’s best output is S-Video (I lack HDTV), and I ran that to the LMC-, then the output from the LMC via Composite cables to the TV. It gave everything a slightly too-pink hue. Not terrible, but everyone looked like they’d been in the sun too long and grass lost its green snap. I was not able to correct it enough via the TV’s tint controls (which was weird, and not the LMC-1’s fault…). S-Video looked fine, and the Composite-to-Composite connection of my DVD player also looked fine. I’ve not heard anyone else complain of this. I could work around it by simply connecting an S-Video cable from LMC-1 to TV, and choosing that output on the TV. I like the fact that all of the LMC’s video outputs are active at the same time. Very handy.

From AVS and AV123, I knew that the LMC had a few software quirks. I can confirm that it is quirky, but only under certain conditions. Those conditions involve pure Dolby Digital 2.0 and 5.1 streams from my Dish Network DVR and sometimes from by DVD player. The LMC sometimes becomes ‘confused’ as to which sound processing mode it can apply and will default to ‘Bypass’ or ‘Dolby PLIIx: Music’ when it should remember the previous setting. It also restricts you in some ways by only being able to apply processing in certain ways (ie, no DTS:Neo allowed from a Dolby Digtal source). This is annoying to me. Also, the ‘DOLBY’ and ‘DTS’ buttons on the remote don’t work to change modes 100% of the time when you’re listening to a DD2.0 or DD5.1 stream. I would need to change channels (or stop playback), then switch modes via button or the menu, and then resume playback. That would fix the problem. There are no bugs like this when listening to analog sources, although the ‘DTS’ button is still just an on/off toggle, unlike the ‘DOLBY’ button that actually switches modes. All of the bugs are easily worked-around, but the fact remains that they are there and in my case led to a severe decrease in WAF. I have spoken to Lonnie at Emotiva and they are aware of the problems and are working on it. Hopefully they will work these bugs out, although they've had almost a year to do so. The simulated DSP modes (hall, theater, live, etc...) are ok, though I never use them. The effects are somewhat convincing, but very STRONG. I've never heard a 'hall' mode put in so much reverb and ECHO, echo, echo.... ;-) Again, rarely - if ever- use the DSP effects, but they are there.

Sound Quality. Excellent, though not quite what I expected. Truthfully, I didn’t know what to expect from the LMC-1. This is my first ever ‘real’ Pre-pro. How much better could it sound from my Pioneer Elite receiver? I just don’t have a frame-of-reference. The truth? Better, but not by a large amount. The LMC-1 seems to be more transparent than the Pioneer, and I think that’s a good thing. Maxing out the volume on the LMC-1 with no source playing, I could detect only the very faintest hiss with my ear 1 inch from the cones. There is definitely a bit more hiss from the Pioneer at such ‘stupid’ levels.

Sound Qualty:Music.Denon DVD-1920 DVD/CD/SACD Player used. Excellent!! The biggest improvement seemed to be in channel separation. At least, that’s what I think it is. In music that had sharp L/R placement of instruments, the LMC-1 seemed to lock those instruments down just a bit harder than the Pioneer. I have a couple of tracks where a ‘dueling’ instrument setup happens in the far left and right, and the LMC-1 locked those down to precise positions very tightly. It felt like the soundstage was more seamless as well – not only left-to-right but also front-to-back. Listening to several reference CD’s; via digital I preferred the Pioneer, but when using analog connections, the LMC-1 shined (which is odd, considering that the Pioneer is supposed to be a direct analog connection and the LMC-1 isn’t). For whatever reason, I was getting a bit more bass out of my M80’s with the LMC-1 (yes, full-range on both). In playing some 2-channel music, it really felt like my sub was still on (even though it wasn’t). This LMC/LPA combo can really pound it out! On quieter, more detailed listening, the LMC did not disappoint. Very crisp detail in both highs and lows. Never harsh. SACD’s sounded lovely on the LMC, perhaps just a bit more open and spacious. Not a drastic improvement over the Pioneer, but preferable none-the-less. When it comes to music, I was very impressed by the LMC.

Sound Quality:Movies. Denon DVD-1920 and Dish DVR. Average results. I prefer the Pioneer – it just works better for AV work. I had a heck of a hard time keeping the LMC calibrated. I would calibrate everything as perfectly as I could, and then watch a DVD only to find that the sub was too high. Then music would be too low and it didn’t seem like the sub settings through the LMC-1 were really effective enough. Having to manually switch between -10 and +10 db on the subwoofer output grew tiresome. On my Pioneer, calibration would stay true and all of the sources would sound good. It was strange, and frustrating. For non-digital sources, the LMC-1 has too aggressive DPLII and DTS decoding for my taste. What I mean is that it was pulling in more rear surround than I’m used to. On the Pioneer, I could dial in the level of panorama and surround effects to my liking. The MMC-1 has these adjustments, but the LMC-1 does not. Perhaps with Q series speakers, instead of my M22’s, the effect would be a bit less ‘sharp’ and more enveloping. The LMC-1 did track L/C/R movement very well indeed, but often I would get brief bursts of sound from the rears, instead of a smooth effect. This is dependent on the source, of course, but I’ve never heard such abrupt effects from the Pioneer before, from the same sources.

Other: I did experience some speaker pops. On every system shutdown, both mains would be sent a quiet ‘snap’ of a speaker pop. It was pretty quiet, but definitely there and loud enough for my wife to give me a dirty look. The LMC-1 would occasionally output a loud split second of ‘SCHHH’ noise when switching to a DD5.1 signal, which is startling and annoying.

The Verdict. It’s a *very* close call, but the LMC-1 is going back. It was not an easy decision, as I will miss the sweetness and openness of the LMC-1 when it comes to pure, raw music playback, especially SACDs. I will not miss the software quirks. I’m going to stick with my Pioneer until either Emotiva works the bugs out (or releases the LMC-2), or I can convince the wife that we need an MMC-1. I have no doubt that the MMC-1, based on an entirely different chipset with its rich set of customizations and even better sound quality, is a beast of a preamp.

If anyone has any questions about my experience, I’d be happy to answer them.

Outstanding review, Peter! Thank you so much.

Sorry to hear your sending your unit back as I did.

Excellent and informative, Peter! It's too bad a company like Emotiva, which seems to have good intentions and lofty goals, has yet to match that criteria product-wise. I sincerely hope they get the bugs worked.

Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo.

The above is a grammatically correct sentence. (link)

Hi Peter -

Sorry to hear your amp is going back. I myself was considering one of Emotiva amps, but in the end decided that I wasn't willing to take risk based on all the problems that I've been reading about here and on other forums.

So, today I purchased a Rotel in which I'm really excited about and can't wait to get it up and running.

I wish you the best of luck and hope you find yourself an amp that you too will truly love and enjoy for years to come.

No, no, I still have my LPA-1, which is their low-priced 7 channel amp. I really like it. I have have had zero shutdown problems driving my M80's at *stupid-loud* volume levels. The amp I am keeping, most definitely. For $500, I'd highly recommend it!

The LMC-1 is their low-price pre-amp that matches the LPA-1. It's on its way back to Emotiva. Check out the swanky correct usage of both its and it's!

I don't think he ever said he is returning the amp...

EDIT: Ya beat me by mere seconds.

That is fantastic.

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Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo.

The above is a grammatically correct sentence. (link)

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Oh snap, my bad! My apologises for the misunderstanding. I often get their model numbers mixed up sometimes.

Sorry about that.

Indeed.

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I don't think he ever said he is returning the amp...

EDIT: Ya beat me by mere seconds.

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Not a problem what so ever. No apologies needed. All of their gear is named similarly. Easy enough to get them confused.

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Oh snap, my bad! My apologises for the misunderstanding. I often get their model numbers mixed up sometimes.

Sorry about that.

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All speakers set to 'small', crossover at 50hz. 3200cu ft room. Bi-amped M80's, if that makes a difference.

I'm sure there is a point at which the LPA-1 will shut down. There is for any amp. I suppose I could crank it way up and then just leave the room until it shuts down, but that's a bit silly. For what I would consider *loud* listening, 90-100db in my seat, I've listened to 2 channel music for more than an hour or two with no problems. The amp was certainly warm to the touch. Any lounder than that just isn't enjoyable to me - it's too loud.

Last weekend my wife and I watched 2, 2+ hour movies back-to-back at 'loud' levels. Eragon and Master & Commander (again). Driving all 7 channels (4x to M80's, center, surrounds) and the amp was definitely warm after the evenings viewing, but no sign of distress.

Wait, I didn't know you could biamp the M80's with 4 channels from the LPA-1. How does that work? Do you notice a difference?

Well sure. I believe I am passively Bi-amping. Many would argue that there is no benefit to doing it this way, but it's what I'm doing...

Each front channel pre-out is split from my AVR using a high quality RCA splitter, and then a pair of interconnects runs to the amp for each channel. My M80's are wired with Canare 4S11 cable, so it was easy enough to power each 'half' of each channel with one of the LPA's amps.

Do I notice a difference? That's tricky, but I think so.

Here's what I did. I bi-amped my right M80, and left my left M80 bi-wired. I then set both speakers to Large, and shut my sub off (just to be sure). Then I played some music, shuffling the balance around to see if I noticed a difference. Now of course, there's one glaring variable here and that's if there's different levels mixed in each channel. But for my purposes, the tracks were close enough. For the record, I listened to many tracks from Norah Jones, Come Away With Me via 2-channel SACD.

I prefered the bi-amped. For some reason it just felt like there was more bass response. At the same volume level, I seemed to be able to feel more bass being transmitted through the floor from the bi-amped one. I sort of thought that her voice was just a bit more clearer on the high, loud notes on the bi-amped M80.

Then, just for fun, I disconnected both single pre-outs from the back of my receiver, and dropped them behind my rats-nest of an AV rack. Walked away, had a glass of lemonade, and came back. I reached around and found the cables in the dim recesses behind my Av rack. Without looking to see which is which, I reconnected them to my AVR/PrePro, again, not having any idea which channel was which. Yeah, I did it by feel.

I could not tell a difference in the high notes. I tried, and sometimes would like the left, and then change my mind. I *might* have though that the left sounded a bit better. But really, honestly, I couldn't pick out a difference in mid/high range. But my left speaker did seem to have just a touch more authority in the bass department. Not a lot, but enough that I could feel that it was vibrating my floor a bit more than the other. Sounded a bit 'fuller'. I 'voted' that the left speaker was now the bi-amped. Tracing my cables back, I was indeed correct. I had a 50/50 shot at getting it correct.

So I corrected the L/R cable, and bi-wired the other M80.

So there it is. Completely unscientific, probably somehow completely biased, but I like it this way. The only drawback is that my LPA seems to get a bit hotter than it used to. No problems with shutdown, but it's definitely warmer than it used to be at comparable volume levels.

So now, channels 1-4 are powering the fronts, 5 is the center, and the smaller 6+7 are powering my surrounds. No problems what-so-ever (there were a few reports of humming on the 6/7 channels when using all 7 channels of the LPA), and it all sounds fantastic, if I do say so myself.

Interesting, thank you for your detailed response. Reading your posts has been a big part in me deciding to get the LMC-1/LPA-1 combo for a pair of M80's. I think this will be a good match for me as music is my thing.

Good luck with the purchase. Happy to have helped.

IMHO, for music the LMC/LPA combo is unbeatable for the price. It's not the best as an AV pre-pro, but for music, it's fantastic.

Now I gotta go email Dan about my commission .

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Interesting, thank you for your detailed response. Reading your posts has been a big part in me deciding to get the LMC-1/LPA-1 combo for a pair of M80's. I think this will be a good match for me as music is my thing.

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lol. Too bad your WAF factor was too low(I had no idea what that meant and googled it and laughed my head off when I found the wikipedia article on it).

Peter,

How about hiss from the LMC-1? Did you have any?

The hiss on mine is audible on the calibrated QS8s from the listening position and it is very annoying.

I have read and read and tested and tested. It is not a ground loop issue. The hiss enters my system with the LMC-1.

The av123 forums have several people with hissing problems with the LMC-1.

What pre/pro are you getting? Please let me know how you like it.

Thanks,

Yes, I did hear some hiss during very quiet passages. I didn't hear it from my rear M22's, but I did hear it on my M80's. It wasn't enough to be really bothersome, but it was there. I too have read a couple of reports from people with more sensitive speakers having hiss problems.

More than likely I'm going to end up getting an Outlaw 990. I haven't quite decided, but the bass management on SACD input is important to me, and only the Outlaws seem to offer it. The 990 seems to meet my needs better than the 970, at least from the specs and manual. I can't justify spending more for an MMC or DMC that does less.

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Peter,

How about hiss from the LMC-1? Did you have any?

The hiss on mine is audible on the calibrated QS8s from the listening position and it is very annoying.

I have read and read and tested and tested. It is not a ground loop issue. The hiss enters my system with the LMC-1.

The av123 forums have several people with hissing problems with the LMC-1.

What pre/pro are you getting? Please let me know how you like it.

Thanks,

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Thanks, Peter. Let me know how it matches up with the LPA-1.

Oh, I'm sure I'll ramble on if/when I eventually get it. The Outlaw 990 really looks quite nice. My only hesitation is price and that darn 40% upgrade plan that Emotiva has. For some folks, $1000-$1500 on a prepro is nothing. For me, a $500 prepro (LMC) is fine, but spending over a grand just for the prepro is pushing my budget at the moment (wife wants to go somewhere special this summer....)

What I'm really going to do is wait until June and see what the new special will be from Emotiva. Last month it was the MMC/LPA combo, and this month it's the DMC. I have read that Emotiva is working on an 'LMC-2' that may appear later this summer. So part of me is hoping that the LMC-1 goes on sale in June/July. I have a tendency to buy new products but on the backside of their production run, and save a few bucks. I might have to snag an LMC-1 (again) then, if it's like $399 or something like that.

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Thanks, Peter. Let me know how it matches up with the LPA-1.

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What makes separates better than a all-in-one receiver, like the Yamaha RX-V661? Is it the built-in amplification that is sub-par?

If I decide to return/sell the LMC-1 and keep the LPA-1 amp, would a receiver with pre-amp outs to the LPA-1 do just as well as dedicated pre/pro? I know that for audio: good quality DACs are important, so if the receiver has good quality DACs and I bypass its amplification and use the LPA-1, is my audio quality going to be worse than a pre/pro's?

Ah, I don't even know what I am saying or what/how to ask...

Regards,

Rodney, there isn't any magic in "separates"; putting stuff in two or three boxes instead of one and charging a lot more doesn't work miracles. The cost-effective and sensible buy for most applications is a receiver at a relatively moderate cost. If you want to keep the present separate amplifier, using a receiver as a pre-pro works just as well as a separate pre-pro, although you're not taking advantage of the amplifier sections that you've paid for. As Alan and others have pointed out, DACs are now a mature technology and you can be confident that the ones in a receiver you buy are good enough to achieve audibly flawless converting.

Rodney

This is a good read.

Rodney like most things in audio(or video) for that matter there are compromises to make and its useful to know what they are in order to make informed decisions. There are pros and cons with owning separates or integrated receivers. I've owned many of both. currently using an integrated in a 5.1 system around a TV dispay, separates in my 7.2 HT , and separates in my stereo setup.

There is alot of great gear available but generally speaking except for the higher end integrateds, sonic quality is better in separates for two main reasons. Firstly, when housed in one box the large magnetic field from the amplifier does create low level signal interference even with shielding. Indeed shielding can only go so far to lowering noise or eliminating signal interation. Secondly, heat negatively effects all electronic devices and causes wear and tear. By design there is always going to be more heat generated inside one integrated box. Performance is bound to suffer because of the complex signal interactions you get from all the functions jammed inside one box.

On the other hand its tough to beat the value of buying a box containing an amp, processor and tuner with the latest codecs and formats. Integrated are the only real option if your budget is less than $1,000. If bang for the buck is the objective, integrateds win hands down. Moreover in some applications, such as my TV room, integrateds are more space efficient. And over the years the gap between separates and integrateds has narrowed with better technology and RF limiting designs.

But from the perspective of what will give you the best performance, integrateds will not be able to overcome the advantage which separates will always have of mixing and matching more precisely the requirments of your components. In my experience all speakers, including the Axiom floorstanders, benefit from increased amplification. Call it better resolution or dynamic range, call it better transparency, they always sound better from having more power available on reserve for sudden loud transients. Integrateds are most limited by the size of their amplifiers and inherently more signal noise compared to separates.

I've never heard a hiss (while music is playing) on my H/K 525 with the 50s or the 80s. Of course, I don't crank it like others around here (75dB, quoted as "quiet" by someone else is around medium loud for me...)

The video was pretty darn good.


My M80s are dead quiet with my Rotel equipment. It must be the Emo products.

Thank you. That was a video from my sophomore year here at Whitworth College. I am graduating next week and moving back over the mountains to Woodinville. I can see why you thought I was a bit older. I look really young in that video too. I'm actually 22 now, so my search for a "real job" is on. Also, I have been very fortunate to be able to buy a house out of college. In addition, considering the fact I'm obsessed with the Beatles, have big vinyl collection, and hate rap music(no reason to ever listen to it, unless your at a club or something...but even then, its overstayed its welcome at the center stage of popular music), I could see how one might think that.

Well, I'd rather talk about how much I enjoy Adam's virtuosity and his prospects, but since you asked me a direct question, I'll provide the courtesy of a non-technical reply.

And by specifying "non-technical", I mean only to infer that I'm not capable of providing that version, not that I choose not to. I'm just a consumer on this deal, not an engineer.

I really want to like/buy the Emotiva products. They seem elegant and an excellent value. We have several reports from people I trust that the company provides excellent customer service and is driven by right-minded people.

1. The pricing seems initially "too good to be true".

2. There are numerous, documented, unresolved software/operating issues with the LMC-1.

3. We have Randy's unsatisfactory experience with the amps to reflect upon.

4. There are several reports about the audibility of the LMC-1 noise floor.

Perhaps "suspicious" was a bit too pejorative. My assessment as an interested consumer is that the company is still finding its way technically, and that the products have not yet reached a comfortable level of maturity. It just seems to me that - right now - the company is making design choices that compromise the product quality.

Good points, Tom. While I own an LPA-1, I'm coming to those same conclusions as well. Like their look, love their customer service, appreciate their prices, but a little suspicious about the quality. Still, for the record, I love my LPA-1.

Anyway....

If anyone's interested in taking a peek at a dedicated Emotiva discussion forum, I've got an 'unofficial' one set up that's already found a handful of users. I'd welome all of my Axiom friends that are curious for more Emotiva info to stop on by....

Unofficial Emotiva Discussion

Tom,

Thank you.

I apologize since I was getting defensive thinking you were suspicious of my inability to get the hiss out of my system. Everything was tried in my house to ensure it wasn't a ground loop issue. Emotiva CS was great and agreed there is nothing more to do than return the LMC-1 and get my money back.

Kind regards,

Rodney, I apologize for the misunderstanding, and deeeply appreciate you sharing your experiences with the rest of us.

Well,

I walked into BB and got a Yamaha RX-V661, which I think is the 659 (Hutzal or someone has one) with HDMI. The 659 got good reviews on the net. So I thought I'd try the 661.

No hiss.

NO HISS! Using the pre-outs to the LPA-1.

I haven't done any critical listening as it was getting late and the Yamaha is quite complex to operate/set up
compared to the LMC-1.

If anyone has the 659/661, how do you like it, why do you like it, how does it compare to your pre/pro or receiver before that?

Regards,

Peter- What is your opinion of the LPA-1? I am looking at buying the Outlaw 990 and now instead of the 7075 or 7125, buying the LPA-1 instead for $ 500 less then the Outlaw amp. I can't see how you can go wrong for that kind of money for that much power, unless the amp shares the same type of quirkiness of it's pre/pro partner.

I really like the LPA-1. No quirks. Does just what an amp is supposed to do. Now, this is my first dedicated amplifier, so I really don't have anything to compare it to. However, my 'audiophile' friend has listened to it and commented that it seemed quite nice, and was very impressed that it cost lest than his last set of speaker wires . YMMV.

In any event, the LPA handles my 4-ohm M80's much better than my AVR. The AVR strains at moderately high volume and the sound becomes 'grainy'. The LPA remains calm and collected at high volumes. The highs are also quite a bit better with the LPA; smoother, more refined. I feel that the M80's sink into the background more with the LPA than with the AVR. Really, I like it. My only possible complaint is that it's quite a massive amp, so be sure that you have enough room for it! It doesn't fit in my AV rack, and so has to sit on top, which is not the best place for a heavy amp...

I'm actually thinking about the 990/LPA combo myself, but that would require purchsing a new AV rack, as neither fit in the rack, and I'm not balancing an LPA+990 on the top .

Outlaw makes really good stuff, though I say that through reputation only, as I've never actually heard any of it. Keep in mind that if you're buying the amp and pre-pro at the same time, Outlaw will give you a nice discount and the price difference isn't all that much. LPA @ $500 + 990 @$1000 = $1,500 vs Outlaw 990/7125 combo at $1,800. Also, that 7125 is a pure 125x7 design and is not as tall as the LPA, so if space is a concern, that may be something to think about.

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Peter- What is your opinion of the LPA-1? I am looking at buying the Outlaw 990 and now instead of the 7075 or 7125, buying the LPA-1 instead for $ 500 less then the Outlaw amp. I can't see how you can go wrong for that kind of money for that much power, unless the amp shares the same type of quirkiness of it's pre/pro partner.

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I went and checked and much to my dismay, the A/V wood cabinet my wife had to have from Pottery Barn is too shallow to fit the LPA into! Needless to say, I am very disappointed and would cut the back out of it if I could get away with it, so I am back to Outlaw products by default. Damn, I hate when the decision is made for me!

Heh. Welcome to the club.

Outlaw gear is not a compromise at all. I'm sure the 990/7075 or 990/7125 would be awesome. Now just make sure that the 990 will fit. It's about the same size as the LPA.

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I went and checked and much to my dismay, the A/V wood cabinet my wife had to have from Pottery Barn is too shallow to fit the LPA into! Needless to say, I am very disappointed and would cut the back out of it if I could get away with it, so I am back to Outlaw products by default. Damn, I hate when the decision is made for me!

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Just barely deep enough! Did not mean to imply the Outlaw was not a great choice, I am going to order the combo tomorrow.

I was poking around the Emotiva site and looking at web reviews and the LMA-1 really seems like a sweet amp at a great price. I'm wondering if Randy might have been happier with the LMA than the MPS... even the LMA puts out 225W per channel into 4 ohms.

At first glance it seems like Emotiva is at the point where they have some really nice products and some which are still teething a bit -- and a prospective customer might do better to mix & match the best of their products rather than going for the standard combos Emotiva offers. Does this make any sense ?

The MPS1 was putting out 300W into 4 Ohms. I doubt Randy would be happy with 225W. Randy needs 8 X A1400-8s .

It still seems possible that the MPS was shutting down prematurely due to some quirky interaction between the MPS protection circuitry and the 4-ohm speakers, ie that Randy was not really getting full advantage from his 300W per channel.

It seemed pretty clear that the MPS was able to put out more clean power than the Denon, ie the Denon seemed to start clipping at lower SPLs than the MPS, but the MPS also seemed to shut down at levels where the Denon seemed to be playing cleanly -- at least that's what I gathered from the 11,000 or so posts on the subject

11,002 it is. I have this $200 credit from Emotiva that I won from this contest, see. Emotiva's free shipping offer is about to expire, and since I never win anything, I've got the urge to test drive one of their products. But, after reading all this stuff, I wonder if spending $300 on an LPA-1 or $500 on an RPA-1 would be a mistake? I guess this kind of sounds like a poll.

I can say that I have not read anything negative about the LPA-1. I still say that it's worth every penny at $500, and for $300 it's a downright steal. I'd say that you can't go wrong. My LPA is bi-amping my M80s and has no problem driving them at 110+db without shutdown issues. Yeah, it gets pretty warm at those levels, but it doesn't shut down.

Just for giggles, I connected my M80's back up to my AVR, and tried to do some critical listening. I was rewarded with muddy, heavy bass and screechy, sibilant, highs. The LPA sounds quite a bit different, and really seems to calm and smooth everything out. Controlled and distinct bass, and significantly smoother highs.

I know that some will scream and yell that all amps sound the same, but they don't.

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11,002 it is. I have this $200 credit from Emotiva that I won from this contest, see. Emotiva's free shipping offer is about to expire, and since I never win anything, I've got the urge to test drive one of their products. But, after reading all this stuff, I wonder if spending $300 on an LPA-1 or $500 on an RPA-1 would be a mistake? I guess this kind of sounds like a poll.

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The LPA seems like a real good place to spend $300... or $500, for that matter.