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Redbook CD player vs. Universal DVD Player?
#168492 05/20/07 02:43 PM
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I've been kicking this one around for quite some time and still can't come to a conclusion. My CD player died about a year ago and I haven't replaced it yet instead using my Panny DVD-CP72 for both cd's and dvd's. The Panny does DVD-A as well but not SACD. Audio is a big thing for me and I spend much more time listening to music than watching movies. I've been debating as to whether to buy a new CD player for redbook cd's (of which I have many) or go with a universal DVD player as I do enjoy DVD-A and would like to expand into SACD as well, realizing that these formats have not had great commercial success, unfortunately.

Can I get great audio (relatively speaking with my budget) from CD's from a universal player or should I look to get a decent CD player, such as the Rega Apollo or Rotel 1072? I'm pretty sure that the Panny is not the greatest for audio even though it was highly acclaimed for it's video in it's day (sister of the RP-82 in a multi-disc format).

I'm thinking I could afford to go about a thousand dollars towards this effort (of course, less is better ).

Thanks for any and all advise.

Re: Redbook CD player vs. Universal DVD Player?
korkster #168493 05/20/07 05:38 PM
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I am of the belief that you can get excellent CD performance from a decent DVD player. Yes, certain players tend to have better audio performance than others, but that being said, a DVD can have very good performance.

I have found Cambridge Audio to have very nice CD / audio performance, but they are somewhat expensive.

If I were you, I would purchase an Oppo DVD player. The 981 gives you incredible video performance, and great audio performance. The 970 gives good video performance, and excellent audio performance. They are also universal players (dvd audio, sacd, hdcd, etc).
www.oppodigital.com

Re: Redbook CD player vs. Universal DVD Player?
korkster #168494 05/20/07 05:50 PM
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korkster, i also own the Panny CP72 and it has performed quite stellar in dvdv and dvda capacity. I have the previous version upstairs (the non progressive scan multi disc Panny) as well.

DVDA sound has been absolutely amazing. The few discs we own are truly of incredible recording or remastering quality. I cannot say that will be the same necessarily for all dvda or sacd though, but i figure if someone wants to record or remaster music in that format, they will likely take their care in trying to do so.
You are correct that the dvda and sacd formats have not really taken off commercially. Everytime i've gone looking for discs, i've come home empty not having found anything worth buying since the selection was so thin. With that being said, i would still buy more dvda or sacds if i knew the formats were going to continue into the future. Since this is uncertain, i'm holding off buying any more discs.
Personally i think the Dolby Digital (DD) format is going to replace the dvda and sacd since it plays back on any dvd unit and without the extra cable connections from the dvdp to the receiver. Instead you just need 6 speaker cable connections from the receiver to the speakers which is standard for any surround system anyway.

As for your conundrum about cd/dvd players, i wouldn't worry much about audio quality (note that video quality is a completely different topic) across the expensive vs. inexpensive spectrum. The DACs onboard many of these cd/dvdps are similar if not identical to those found in boutique name players, likely because the chips are so incredibly cheap these days. You may pay a ton more for the name, perhaps a more quiet transport or extra features, but as long as you buy a good brand name, like Panasonic, and nothing too inexpensive such that they really cut back on fundamentals required for clean audio (like a cheap power supply or non shielded components causing any kind of signal interference), you should be fine with a universal player that costs alot less than a Rega or the Rotel.
Although i do like my Panny CP72, i am thinking about buying a different dvdp for movies since the transport is kind of loud and the whirring can be distracting in quiet scenes. Either that or i need to buy an enclosed audio case to dampen the sound.

Last edited by chesseroo; 05/20/07 05:54 PM.

"Those who preach the myths of audio are ignorant of truth."
Re: Redbook CD player vs. Universal DVD Player?
korkster #168495 05/20/07 09:37 PM
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An affordable all in one player that doesn't compromise video or audio is the Cambeidge DV89. CD, SACD, DVD, DVD-A, RW+-, MPEG4, DiVX
http://www.cambridgeaudio.com/summary.php?PID=113&Title=DVD89
Its based on the Oppo 970 upscaling video platform with built in decoding and analog out. Then Cambridge took it a step further and used its better isolated discrete power supply, better chassis and added some anti-vibration techniques.

Or if you got nothing better to do with your money you can blow some cash. Pick up a higher end Marantz or Denon or Sony SACD/CD player and Oppo 970 and have the best of both world.

Re: Redbook CD player vs. Universal DVD Player?
Saturn #168496 05/21/07 12:26 AM
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I have a Cambridge Audio receiver in our main floor room right now and other than the fact that its remote buttons are rather obscure and it doesn't have a 'direct' signal setting, i'm pretty happy with it.
If they sold that dvdp in a multidisc flavour, i would go looking tomorrow.


"Those who preach the myths of audio are ignorant of truth."
Re: Redbook CD player vs. Universal DVD Player?
Saturn #168497 05/21/07 03:09 PM
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Thanks for all of your thoughts so far. I actually did have a Cambridge Audio CD player on my original short list awhile back. Maybe I should give some more thought to Cambridge ref. the DVD player.

I know there's a lot of debate out there ref. to the importance of the digital players. Some people say that there is little difference between players and to spend a lot of money on one over a less expensive model with the same features for improved quality audio is senseless (digital is digital; ones are ones and zeros are zeros). I just have difficulty believing that people would spend such ridiculous sums of money on some of this stuff if it wasn't better. I know that your bang for the buck get's less as you go up the money chain, and the differences become more subtle. I just want to maximize my investment in my Axioms, especially the M80v2's which are my mains, and I feel that my Panisonic DVD-CP72 may not be the best source equipment for audio. It's all very confusing.

Re: Redbook CD player vs. Universal DVD Player?
korkster #168498 05/21/07 05:36 PM
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I've had a bunch of Panasonic DVD players over the years and everyone has given me excellent 2 channel music performance, great DTS DVD music reproduction and excellent video reproduction.

The Oppo 971 is a universal player which has received excellent reviews for redbook, as well as high resolution format play. The Oppo has received rave reviews for video performance and multi channel music as well.

On the other hand, it will set you back $149. No brainer.

Last edited by 2x6spds; 05/21/07 05:39 PM.

Enjoy the Music. Trust your ears. Laugh at Folks Who Claim to Know it All.
Re: Redbook CD player vs. Universal DVD Player?
korkster #168499 05/21/07 05:45 PM
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>>I just want to maximize my investment in my Axioms, especially the M80v2's which are my mains, and I feel that my Panisonic DVD-CP72 may not be the best source equipment for audio. It's all very confusing.

I'm sure this has been mentioned somewhere before in this thread, but IMO the main reason for confusion is that "it all depends how you hooks it up".

If you are using analog connections from player to receiver / pre-pro (ie if you are using the DACs and analog stuff in the player) then I think many here will agree that better players can give better sound.

If you are using a digital connection from the player (CD's PCM audio can go over the coax or optical cable just like DVD DD/DTS audio), then it gets a lot harder to explain how one player can sound much better than another. Jitter is sometimes raised as a factor but even that is hard to believe since everything gets retimed in the receiver/pre-pro.

SACD and DVD-A are the only real challenges, since you either need to use analog outputs or you need a relatively high end player & receiver/pp to get encrypted digital outputs that your receiver can accept.

I would vote for making sure you have a digital connection for CD audio, stay with the player you have for a while, and save for speakers.


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Re: Redbook CD player vs. Universal DVD Player?
bridgman #168500 05/22/07 02:39 PM
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I'm sending my 2 channel (CD) material digitally (optical) from the player to my Pre/pro (Outlaw 990). As you mentioned, the DVD-A goes from the player to the pre/pro via six analog cables so the conversion for DVD-A is happening in the player (I think?). Am I losing something there?

Maybe the Oppo is the way to go for the time being as it is so affordable, and that will give me SACD capability as well. I guess the 970 is the way to go for me as audio is my biggest concern and my TV is an older model Toshiba 50hx83 RPTV with no HDMI or DVI inputs, just component.

That said, maybe it's time to start saving my nickels towards a new television/monitor. It really never does end with this stuff, does it?

Re: Redbook CD player vs. Universal DVD Player?
korkster #168501 05/22/07 05:59 PM
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>>As you mentioned, the DVD-A goes from the player to the pre/pro via six analog cables so the conversion for DVD-A is happening in the player (I think?).

Yes, this means that conversion would be happening in the player.

>>Am I losing something there?

Probably but I expect you would have to listen very hard to notice the difference. I'm not sure upgrading to a 970 would be enough to justify the price difference -- maybe a 981 to get the better video processing as well ?

I imagine the next big sea-change will be easy availability of digital audio over HDCP-protected HDMI from player to pre-pro / receiver. Not sure how close we are to that... anyone ?


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Re: Redbook CD player vs. Universal DVD Player?
bridgman #168502 05/22/07 06:14 PM
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Quote:



I imagine the next big sea-change will be easy availability of digital audio over HDCP-protected HDMI from player to pre-pro / receiver. Not sure how close we are to that... anyone ?




It is here already. I just picked up a Toshiba XA2 hd dvd player which outputs multichannel PCM over HDMI 1.3. You need a receiver with HDMI 1.1 or higher to process it.


John
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