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Axiom A1400-8 Digital Amplifier
#170275 06/13/07 08:26 PM
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I just finished reading the Axiom Owner's club Newsletter for June 2007. Axiom are taking orders for the new A1400-8 and there is a sizeable discount for pre-orders before July 15th. This is very tempting however a new house purchase is getting in the way!! Anyone out there planning to add this beauty to their collection?

Re: Axiom A1400-8 Digital Amplifier
Rock_Head #170276 06/13/07 08:28 PM
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I saw it too...man, what a freaking awsome deal...

I would jump on it if I had that much cash sitting around...

Those rosewood M3's look amazing too...I wish I didn't have a pair of M3s so I could pick those up...


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Re: Axiom A1400-8 Digital Amplifier
Hutzal #170277 06/13/07 08:56 PM
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Can someone send me that newsleter...I just ordered my first axioms this week

Last edited by NOLAGT; 06/13/07 08:57 PM.
Re: Axiom A1400-8 Digital Amplifier
Rock_Head #170278 06/13/07 10:57 PM
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I think I'm going to try to do it. It just sounds too cool. The funds will be close, but I THINK I can pull it off. Of course, this means the preamp won't happen until afterward, so I'll have to use an old receiver with preouts to even test the thing. May as well go for the gold, right?

Then trade up to platinum one day.

Re: Axiom A1400-8 Digital Amplifier
CV #170279 06/13/07 11:10 PM
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We know output figures for 1 channel and 7 channel, etc... any figures for 2 channel 8 ohm / 4 ohm? More complete specs would be appreciated before members make the leap I would think.


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Re: Axiom A1400-8 Digital Amplifier
Spoiler #170280 06/13/07 11:24 PM
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Here is an excerpt from Audioholics when they previewed the amp last september:

I had the folks at Axiom Audio run some preliminary power tests for me and they came up with the following unusual and extremely impressive results.

# of Channels Driven.....Power Delivered....Load

1........................350 watts..........8 ohms
.........................700 watts..........4 ohms
.........................1400 watts.........2 ohms

2........................350 watts..........8 ohms
.........................700 watts..........4 ohms
.........................700 watts..........2 ohms

5........................280 watts..........8 ohms
.........................280 watts..........4 ohms
.........................280 watts..........2 ohms

7........................200 watts..........8 ohms
.........................200 watts..........4 ohms
.........................200 watts..........2 ohms

8........................175 watts..........8 ohms
.........................175 watts..........4 ohms
.........................175 watts..........2 ohms

At first glance, these power measurements look unusual. Allow me to clarify. Firstly, these are CONTINUOUS unclipped power measurements taken on a 15A unregulated line. This is the first amplifier I've ever seen which can actually dump its entire power supply into one channel if called upon. This amp truly acts like an ideal voltage source doubling its power each time the load impedance is halved. With a single 1500VA transformer, highly robust power supply design, and ultra efficient amplifier topology, Axiom has managed to design an amplifier that could deliver nearly the full power from the wall outlet with minimal losses.


Sorry for the dots, don't know how to make a table

Last edited by Hutzal; 06/13/07 11:29 PM.

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Re: Axiom A1400-8 Digital Amplifier
Hutzal #170281 06/13/07 11:53 PM
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I like the dots. Of course, it means I have to call you Dotzal from now on.

Not really. That's dumb.

Last edited by CV; 06/13/07 11:55 PM.
Re: Axiom A1400-8 Digital Amplifier
Rock_Head #170282 06/14/07 12:26 AM
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Axiom Newsletter this afternoon talks about the new digital amp being available soon and savings of $851 on pre-orders now till July 15. I am somewhat surprised that the newsletter still has very limited information about this amp. We still have not heard of its SNR, THD, IMD, frequency response, damping factor, slew rate, channel separation, input sensitivity, and other relevant data. They need to provide a lot more information on such performance data, provide actual pictures (will also be available in black apparently), and give some warranty information. Many people looking to buy this amp will find it hard to order it based purely on quoted power output and their experience with Axiom speakers and subs.

John


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Re: Axiom A1400-8 Digital Amplifier
ihifi #170283 06/14/07 12:44 AM
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Absolutely... to ask for a 3k commitment with so little spec info would be unwarranted IMO.

We need the final and complete information on this amp!!


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Re: Axiom A1400-8 Digital Amplifier
Spoiler #170284 06/14/07 01:03 AM
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An email or call to Axiom is all it would take, I'm sure.


Rick


"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud

Re: Axiom A1400-8 Digital Amplifier
ihifi #170285 06/14/07 07:02 AM
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Quote:

Axiom Newsletter this afternoon talks about the new digital amp being available soon and savings of $851 on pre-orders now till July 15. I am somewhat surprised that the newsletter still has very limited information about this amp. We still have not heard of its SNR, THD, IMD, frequency response, damping factor, slew rate, channel separation, input sensitivity, and other relevant data. They need to provide a lot more information on such performance data, provide actual pictures (will also be available in black apparently), and give some warranty information. Many people looking to buy this amp will find it hard to order it based purely on quoted power output and their experience with Axiom speakers and subs.

John




When I purchased my monoblocks I didnt even have as much as a solid power rating spec. But I trusted the manufacturer that they would deliver and He was right.

I would imagine that all the specs will be within the expected performance range of an amplifier in this pricerange.

Some real pics would be nice though. Inside and out.

Re: Axiom A1400-8 Digital Amplifier
Haoleb #170286 06/14/07 01:13 PM
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I'm sure Axioms 30day trial would still apply here. So take a chance.


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Re: Axiom A1400-8 Digital Amplifier
Rock_Head #170287 06/14/07 03:45 PM
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I think Axiom ought to just stick with speakers. They do such a lovely job, why muddy the waters with an amp? What's next, their own receiver? CD Players? Toaster ovens?

Axiom wants to charge $3,850 for this amp. Maybe that's couch-change for some, but it's not for me and I'd bet it isn't for many Axiom owners. Axiom speakers are currently relatively inexpensive, high-value, excellent-quality products. The surprise ringer in the corner, as it were. Axiom has also long touted that their speakers are easily driven by most AV receivers (M80's excepted, perhaps), and has seemed to promote the 'amps don't matter', mentality (see Alan's numerous commentaries and prevailing forum attitudes).

So why try to sell a $4k amp? That's a pretty expensive amp, compared to many other offerings. Even if it does 'set a new standard' or 'raise the bar', it's still an expensive piece of equipment for what it does. And if it does set some new standard of amp goodness, then why? Anyone with an 'amps don't matter' attitude that bandwagons on the A1400 has some explaining to do.

To me, it just seems that it doesn't fit with Axiom's philosophy. It's not my company, so my opinion matters for squat, but I don't get it.

Unless, of course, they're being tempted by the profit margins of 'high-end' audio products....

Last edited by PeterChenoweth; 06/14/07 03:57 PM.

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Re: Axiom A1400-8 Digital Amplifier
PeterChenoweth #170288 06/14/07 04:09 PM
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Quote:

Anyone with an 'amps don't matter' attitude that bandwagons on the A1400 has some explaining to do.




Clearly amps DO matter, SirQuack was shutting down his emotiva amp constantly. Power matters.


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Re: Axiom A1400-8 Digital Amplifier
Hutzal #170289 06/14/07 05:43 PM
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Power like the A1400-8's certainly does matter. But the question is to how many?

Re: Axiom A1400-8 Digital Amplifier
PeterChenoweth #170290 06/14/07 08:08 PM
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Interesting post, Peter. I've had some of the same thoughts.

I think I've reconciled it on a number of levels, however.

First and foremost, Axiom is a R&D company. They happen to use their R&D expertise primarily in loudspeakers, but the "manufacturing" part is - to me - a smaller part of the equation.

To build on and complement their existing expertise, they added a significant new resource in hiring amplifier designer Tom Cumberland. This synergy resulted in the now highly-acclaimed (and progressively designed) EP400, EP500 and EP600. Axiom was formerly not a major player in subwoofers, but by delivering great performance at what has become a middle-of-the-pack price point, the tradition of excellence and value was perpetuated.

Having learned from the EP DSP design process and with an ongoing desire to further expand the business in the context of existing product lines, we now see the new amp.

I don't really remember Alan or Ian leading the "amps don't matter" parade. Lots of individuals on the forum have stated - amid the usual controversy - that "a watt is a watt is a watt as long as it is performing within its design parameters and appropriately quantified". For a lot of people, 50 watts is simply enough - 100% of the time. For MANY others, it's not. Alan has repeatedly recommended specific brands relative to enjoying the full benefits of the M80's; he has not shied away from saying that equipment from Denon, HK and Sherwood-Newcastle is preferable in many applications to other brands.

To me personally, Axiom 1400-8 is an "expensive" piece of gear. But there ARE plenty of people buying Arcam, B&K, McIntosh, etc. that cost that much or more. I think it is highly likely that - even though it is out of financial reach for some of us - the Axiom amp will present an excellent value within its target market. To many avid listeners, spending the money for a pair of M80's is also out of the question.

The amp certainly represents an innovative design, and it seems pretty consistent with the expertise and strategy of the company to me. I certainly wish Axiom much success, but that success will clearly not ride solely upon the decisions of only the existing loudspeaker customer base.


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Re: Axiom A1400-8 Digital Amplifier
tomtuttle #170291 06/14/07 08:14 PM
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Quote:

I don't really remember Alan or Ian leading the "amps don't matter" parade. Lots of individuals on the forum have stated - amid the usual controversy - that "a watt is a watt is a watt as long as it is performing within its design parameters and appropriately quantified". For a lot of people, 50 watts is simply enough - 100% of the time. For MANY others, it's not. Alan has repeatedly recommended specific brands relative to enjoying the full benefits of the M80's; he has not shied away from saying that equipment from Denon, HK and Sherwood-Newcastle is preferable in many applications to other brands.




Yes, this is my recollection as well. And I am in full agreement with this.

Re: Axiom A1400-8 Digital Amplifier
Hutzal #170292 06/14/07 08:35 PM
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I've gone back and read a few of Alan's articles, and I will admit that I stand corrected in saying that Axiom is in the 'amps don't matter camp'. What I meant was the outside of the physical aspects, amps-don't-matter camp. I didn't mean to say that an amp absolutely doesn't matter, and I wasn't clear on that point. Certainly, driving speakers to fill a large living space driven at high volume requires more watts, and I have no doubts that the A1400 certainly will deliver on the wattage promise.

It is a perfectly fair and valid point that some folks need more power than others. I am in total agreement with that. Sirquack did have problems with the Emotiva MPS, but my 'cheap' LPA-1 performs flawlessly to dangerous-to-my-hearing levels in my 3300 cu ft room.

The point I failed to make was that I find it somewhat odd that Axiom is getting into the amplifier market with a "high-dollar" amp, when Axiom speakers are commonly regarded as relatively inexpensive. If Axiom made $5,000/pair speakers, I would understand a $4,000 amp. But they don't (yet...).

Truly, I hope the amp becomes a runaway success for them, and leads to the development of more and more Axiom products. I'm just saying that I think it's somewhat odd.

Heck, I'd probably buy an Axiom toaster oven.

Last edited by PeterChenoweth; 06/14/07 08:38 PM.

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Re: Axiom A1400-8 Digital Amplifier
PeterChenoweth #170293 06/14/07 09:58 PM
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I’m just wishing Axiom had a Lay-a-Way plan. I’d love to see that amp in my rack but will all the other crap I’ve been buying and vacations…..I’m broke for a few months….. Seeing that $850 price break on an amp that I had decided I wanted when I first read about is making it very difficult to not push that buy button.

And folks, this is an EIGHT channel amp. Not very many of those around. Considering that many seven channel amps with similar WPC ratings go for as much, if not more than 4 grand. NAD, Halo, Rotel, Adcom, Anthem are just a few that come to mind.

And why not get into electronics?? I’d do it if it were my company, and if they were public and I had shares, I’d be asking why they weren’t already.

Re: Axiom A1400-8 Digital Amplifier
PeterChenoweth #170294 06/14/07 10:01 PM
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Quote:

but my 'cheap' LPA-1 performs flawlessly to dangerous-to-my-hearing levels in my 3300 cu ft room.

Truly, I hope the amp becomes a runaway success for them, and leads to the development of more and more Axiom products. I'm just saying that I think it's somewhat odd.

Heck, I'd probably buy an Axiom toaster oven.




LOL, Peter!!! I agree, the cheap (in $$$, Not Performance) LPA-1 has given my overall HT audio At Least a +6db boost in sheer, clean dynamic headroom. Heck, that is with the "gulp", Acoustimas sytem that I got for free (well, I did have to buy a house to get them, hehe)! Can't even begin to imagine the giant forward steps in audio quality the Epic 80 5.1 HT system will make!

Hey, maybe they can throw-in an Axiom toaster oven with an A1400-8 purchase!?

I too think it will be a world-class amp for the money, but I truly don't need any more output DB capability from an amp than I already have now (at 8X the price)!!!

Ted


Samsung 67" DLP 1080P * 2-Axiom EP500 PSW's * Emotiva UT Series Amps * Acoutimass 15's 5.1 = WOW!
Re: Axiom A1400-8 Digital Amplifier
PeterChenoweth #170295 06/14/07 10:04 PM
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I wasn't trying to argue or be confrontational; I hope I did not offend you.

I'd agree that I'd be more excited, and that traditional Axiom customers would be much more likely to support an amp at half that price. Perhaps an A800-8 or A500-2 someday.


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Re: Axiom A1400-8 Digital Amplifier
michael_d #170296 06/14/07 10:16 PM
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Quote:

I’m just wishing Axiom had a Lay-a-Way plan. I’d love to see that amp in my rack but will all the other crap I’ve been buying and vacations…..I’m broke for a few months….. Seeing that $850 price break on an amp that I had decided I wanted when I first read about is making it very difficult to not push that buy button.

And folks, this is an EIGHT channel amp. Not very many of those around. Considering that many seven channel amps with similar WPC ratings go for as much, if not more than 4 grand. NAD, Halo, Rotel, Adcom, Anthem are just a few that come to mind.

And why not get into electronics?? I’d do it if it were my company, and if they were public and I had shares, I’d be asking why they weren’t already.




mdrew, I am not trying to help you spend your hard earned doh...but alas...

From the Axiom FAQ:

Do you have a LayAway Plan?

Lay Away Plans are perfect for those that want to spread their payments out over a 2-12 month period. Lay Away is an advantage if you like to plan ahead and then budget your payments without the interest charges of credit cards. To use the Lay Away Plan, your Order must total $300.00 or more.

Terms

1. Payments may be made over a 2 to 12 month period. Lay Away payments are limited to pre authorized credit cards and the payments will be taken out automatically on the schedule that is agreed on.
2. A minimum 10% down is due at time of Order Confirmation
4. If you cancel your Order once you have begun making payments, you will receive an Axiom store credit for the money paid.
5. To use the Lay Away Plan, ask the phone support staff at 1-866-244-8796 about Lay Away as your Payment Option at the time of your Order. You will be contacted by e-mail to finalize the method of payment and the number of months you wish to spread your payments over. In the additional information box, specify the number of months you want the payment spread over.
6. Your Order is shipped upon completion of the Payment Plan.




Let me know how the amp sounds


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Re: Axiom A1400-8 Digital Amplifier
PeterChenoweth #170297 06/14/07 10:19 PM
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The main amp is a new category for us but in reality it is a logical progression. Amp design started here at Axiom with the DSP-controlled subwoofers. I had always wanted to produce a DSP-controlled subwoofer with tons of headroom since we started playing around with this at the NRC in 1989. Our barrier was that we were having our subwoofer amps made by an OEM vendor and that severely limited our design envelope. Tom and I started talking about the possibilities back in 2001 and it was soon becoming clear that the only way we were going to be able to do it was to start making the amps ourselves. Tom had a design concept that was just too exciting to me to leave as an idea. It was then that Tom joined Axiom full time and the research work began in earnest on his new design. Even though in the beginning the focus of this new design was to make subwoofer amps, it was pretty clear early on that we needed to take this technology broadband; it simply just worked too well not to. For Axiom I like to bring out products that have some kind of distinct and measurable advantage at their price point. Though we could easily bring to market another 7-channel amp at $1,500; we would not have anything extra to offer compared to what is on the market currently (in fact we are selling the Sherwood amp in that category for those looking for a step up to a big receiver). We knew however that we had the ability to go the next step up and replace the mono block category with a single multi-channel amplifier by using the technology that was in our sub amp and taking it broadband. The A1400-8 is that amp.

Lots of specs will start coming out on the A1400-8 over the next few weeks for those of you who have been inquiring. We just received the final version of the output coils today that will allow us to finalize a lot of these specs.

So far we don’t have any plans for a toaster oven; though I have owned some class A/B amps through the years that would have made some decent toast on the heat sinks. Of course the A1400-8 with its high efficiency would hardly warm up that piece of bread.


Ian Colquhoun
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Re: Axiom A1400-8 Digital Amplifier
Ian #170298 06/14/07 10:22 PM
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Ian,

Thanks for the input. Is Axiom planning a cheaper 2-5 channel amp that will contain the same technology?


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Re: Axiom A1400-8 Digital Amplifier
Ian #170299 06/14/07 10:32 PM
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Yeah, I want one. I look forward to the more detailed specs.

Re: Axiom A1400-8 Digital Amplifier
tomtuttle #170300 06/14/07 10:45 PM
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Absolutely not. I just realized that my tone was a bit harsh. No offence taken, none whatsoever.

Quote:

I wasn't trying to argue or be confrontational; I hope I did not offend you.

I'd agree that I'd be more excited, and that traditional Axiom customers would be much more likely to support an amp at half that price. Perhaps an A800-8 or A500-2 someday.





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Re: Axiom A1400-8 Digital Amplifier
Hutzal #170301 06/14/07 10:51 PM
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Quote:



mdrew, I am not trying to help you spend your hard earned doh...but alas...





Let me know how the amp sounds




Oh great....thanks Rob, ya-bastard!!!

Re: Axiom A1400-8 Digital Amplifier
Hutzal #170302 06/14/07 11:27 PM
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Hutzal,

In fact we are going to have a 2-channel version which will follow the 8-channel by a few months. It will be bridgeable into mono as well for some pretty exciting output at 4 and 8 ohms.


Ian Colquhoun
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Re: Axiom A1400-8 Digital Amplifier
Ian #170303 06/14/07 11:35 PM
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Quote:

...Lots of specs will start coming out on the A1400-8 over the next few weeks for those of you who have been inquiring. We just received the final version of the output coils today that will allow us to finalize a lot of these specs.




Thanks, Ian, for the amp progress update! Owning and experiencing the success of your Superb EP500 sub product, I have no doubt the A1400-8 will compete as world-class amplification and help make many Axiom M80 owners (and others) Bliss with Supreme HT DB Supremecy!!!

Ted


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Re: Axiom A1400-8 Digital Amplifier
Theo #170304 06/15/07 02:02 AM
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Amp headroom is a very underappreaciated audio concept. Just about every speaker or sub I have ever owned has performed better with more powerful and clean amplification. The sound of clipping amps annoy me too much. Most people underestimate just how much power is required to reproduce transients cleanly and accurately. Orchestral crescendos, sudden loud kick drums or dramatic bass riffs need huge instantaneous increases in power supplied to the speakers. Alan wrote this great article on just how much extra power is required as SPL increases. Doubling loudness or increasing SPL by 3db requires twice the power. Its a logarithmic function. http://www.axiomaudio.com/power.html

The amp in the EP subs is one of the finest amplifiers to be found in any subwoofer, far better that the Indigo plate amps favoured by other sub manufactuerers. While there is more to a sub than the amp, most people focus on the driver and neglect just how important the amp is to quality sound reproduction. All the subs I had with conventional plate amps were sold long ago.

Cheap and expensive are relative terms. What's expensive to somebody may not be so to someone else depending on their objectives and requirments. I've always used Bryston amps: 7bsst monos, 14bsst, 9bsst and lately a pair of 4bssts bridged mono to provide 1000w per side. If the specs on the A 1400-8 or its 2 channel version are as good as has been suggested then the price is cheap indeed compared to the price of comparable amplifiers. I'm looking forward to comparing specs and A/Bing an eight or two channel version with my Brystons. If they sound and perform the same, the used Brystons go up for sale and I'll be saving a pile of $$s.

If anyone needs a toaster I have an old Sony amp that can be useful at breakfast time.


John
Re: Axiom A1400-8 Digital Amplifier
Ian #170305 06/15/07 03:08 AM
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Ian,
Thank you for your thoughtful comments, and I am glad to hear that much more detail will be forthcoming in the next several weeks. I hope the additional information on the amp comes before the July 15 deadline to entice some of us on the fence into taking advantage of the pre-order discount of $851.

John


John
Our HT

Re: Axiom A1400-8 Digital Amplifier
ihifi #170306 06/15/07 03:17 AM
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Or the deadline gets extended .

Re: Axiom A1400-8 Digital Amplifier
jakeman #170307 06/15/07 03:20 AM
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connoisseur
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The thing that really impresses me about this amp is its size, I pulled my Aragon 2005 out of the rack because it was taking up to much room, at only 4 inches high I have room for the A1400, HMMM-Aragon eBay, new Axiom amp


A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kick boxing.
Re: Axiom A1400-8 Digital Amplifier
Ian #170308 06/15/07 02:33 PM
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Ian,

Thanks for the information, I am looking forward to seeing your 2 channel version as my RX-V659 can handle the rest of the channels if I uprgade to M80s.


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Re: Axiom A1400-8 Digital Amplifier
Rock_Head #170309 07/11/07 12:14 AM
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newbie
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J
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Posts: 3
I am not a current Axiom customer/owner, but I am interested in pre-ording this amp. Does anybody know if I have access to the pre-order deal?

I sent am email to sales, but I thought somebody here might have some information as well. With the pre-order date approaching, I'm not sure how long I can wait for an answer from the sales department (my fault for waiting so long, not theirs).

Thank you.

Re: Axiom A1400-8 Digital Amplifier
JohnRush #170310 07/11/07 12:17 AM
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I believe the pre-order is currently restricted to Axiom customers, but I could be wrong.


I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!
Re: Axiom A1400-8 Digital Amplifier
Ken.C #170311 07/11/07 03:12 AM
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newbie
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J
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Thanks, Ken. Brent in sales responded to my original email and gave me the details -- he responded faster than I expected!

There is a pre-order option available to new Axiom customers, but it is not as nice as the Owners Club deal!

Re: Axiom A1400-8 Digital Amplifier
JohnRush #170312 07/11/07 12:48 PM
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devotee
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Spoken in Jessica Simpson voice -

The Axiom A1400-8 Digital Amp - I have no idea what it does, but I want it!


Epic Grande Master 500 w/ on wall VP180
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