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#172461 - 07/13/07 06:29 PM Yamaha RX-659 vs. Denon AVR-787
rcstevensonaz Offline
regular

Registered: 05/06/07
Posts: 5
I'm wondering if anyone in Axiom-land could weigh in with a recommendation of Yamaha RX-659 vs. Denon AVR-787. I have not find any stores in my area that carry both of these models in stock. Since the specs and cost ($299 vs. $349) are virtually identical, I thought I'd see what you all think....

I'm creating a new setup in a large room (15' x 23') that will have two distinct listening areas: a Home Theater along the side and a Home Office in the corner.

I'm particularly interested in two key areas:

1. Musicality. 97% listening will be music, 3% will be HT.

2. Ability to easily switch configurations between the two listening environments (see below). In particular, I want to use the same sub for both configurations, but the requirements for the sub-woofer is different for the two appliations.


Here is info on the two configurations:


HOME OFFICE ("B Speakers"):

I work from home, so I will spend 8 hours a day in my home office that is in the North-East corner of the room.

- M3v2 speakers mounted on wall 36 inches from my head.
- Velodyne VX-10C subwoofer (on floor beside the desk)
- Hamony 720 remote

Volume will generally be set for background; occasionally will kick it up a notch for a good song. Most of my music is "roots, world-beat, folk, or rock". I want to use a subwoofer to provide natural music extension in the lower range (e.g. lower piano or guitar strings, bass, or drums) but do not need it to pump out bass for rap or heavy rock.*


MULTI-CHANNEL Music / HOME THEATER ("A speakers" + Surrounds):

The 46" LCD TV is mounted half-way along the 23' West wall. The sofa is 7.5' away from the wall, and the rear speakers will be mounted on the wall on the other side of the room (7.5' behind the sofa).

- M22ti for fronts
- VP100v2 for center
- M3v2 (manually reposition above) or M2 (fixed mount) rear
- Velodyne VX-10c sub woofer (9' to left & slightly to back of the sofa)
- Harmony 720 remote


In future, will use "zone 2" for outdoor patio speakers once I can afford the Algonquins :-)

* p.s. I'm open to suggestion on different subwoofer (VX-10c is $149 so I like the price). The primary requirement is that I can extend the music below the M3's normal bass level for music BUT that it can play soft enough that the bass sound waves won't carry through the rest of the house. My wife hates it when she hears a thump-thump bass line coming from my office but nothing else :-)

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#172462 - 07/13/07 10:30 PM Re: Yamaha RX-659 vs. Denon AVR-787 [Re: rcstevensonaz]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10621
RC, welcome. As to your "musicality" requirement, there's no reason for concern on that point about either of the receivers that you're considering or any any other competently-designed modern unit. Operated within their designed power limits(essentially identical)they'll amplify transparently without adding any audible sonic coloration of their own. You yourself can change this with tone controls, ambience processing, etc. when you want to.

If you're willing to reposition the "office" speakers for surround duty in the "theater", as you mention, that'll certainly help with the budget, but for side surrounds in a 5.1 HT setup the QSs are really excellent because of their very wide dispersion. If you can budget for them it's suggested that you'll get more enjoyment than using either M2s or M3s as side surrounds. If eventually you expand to a 7.1 HT setup, the M2s should be fine for back surround speakers to lend a more specific localization of back effects, but QSs also work well back there, of course.

On the sub, regardless of how big and powerful it is, you're in control of how loud you set it, and any sub can obviously be made almost inaudible. You of course would be wasting the capabilities of a very powerful sub to do so, and apparently you want to economize in that area. If you could go a little higher into the $200-$300 range, there are subs from sources such as Hsu which might satisfy you more.
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#172463 - 07/17/07 10:51 PM Re: Yamaha RX-659 vs. Denon AVR-787 [Re: JohnK]
rcstevensonaz Offline
regular

Registered: 05/06/07
Posts: 5
Quote:


... but for side surrounds in a 5.1 HT setup the QSs are really excellent because of their very wide dispersion. If you can budget for them it's suggested that you'll get more enjoyment than using either M2s or M3s as side surrounds. If eventually you expand to a 7.1 HT setup, the M2s should be fine for back surround speakers to lend a more specific localization of back effects, but QSs also work well back there, of course.





OK, so now I'm thinking about the following speaker configuration:

- M22Ti for FR, FL
- VP100 for center
- QS4 for SR, SL
- M2 for SBR and SBL [if I decide on 7.1]

Does this configuration seem right for 5.1 or 7.1? And do I need to be worried about the ability of the a Yamaha 659 to drive that set of speakers at appropriate volumes?

The M22Tis and the VP100 will be wall mounted. The side QS4s would need to hang from the ceiling (about 7' above the head of the listener) and the rear M2s would be wall mounted (about 7' behind and 6'-7' above the listener). Does that seem reasonable? [I can add a drawing later]

Thanks,
Craig

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#172464 - 07/17/07 11:53 PM Re: Yamaha RX-659 vs. Denon AVR-787 [Re: rcstevensonaz]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10621
Craig, that setup sounds(or would sound)fine; one suggestion that I frequently make is to consider the use of a small vertical center, such as the M2, to get wider and smoother horizontal dispersion than a horizontal MTM design. As to back surrounds, again some prefer direct radiators there, while others want still more dispersion and use QSs all around. The 659 or similar should have plenty of power capacity unless you play material with a very wide dynamic range extremely loudly.

On the positioning of the surrounds, those heights wouldn't be a problem and several members here use ceiling mounts. The side surrounds should be directly to the side of the listening position, if possible, and separated widely, almost at the side walls. The back surrounds should be separated about the same distance as they're behind the listening position.
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#172465 - 07/18/07 03:05 PM Re: Yamaha RX-659 vs. Denon AVR-787 [Re: JohnK]
rcstevensonaz Offline
regular

Registered: 05/06/07
Posts: 5
Quote:

one suggestion that I frequently make is to consider the use of a small vertical center, such as the M2, to get wider and smoother horizontal dispersion than a horizontal MTM design.




Yea, I was reading in a different thread about using M2 (or a pair) instead of a VP100/150. If it improves the musicality of the setup, I'm all for it.

Can I get by on a single M2 and could it be placed above the TV? Or should I really have a pair of M2s (one above, one below the TV)?

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#172466 - 07/18/07 03:23 PM Re: Yamaha RX-659 vs. Denon AVR-787 [Re: rcstevensonaz]
Hutzal Offline
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Registered: 07/26/06
Posts: 2102
Loc: Hollywood. (Canadian @ <3)
how big is your room? How big is your TV?
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#172467 - 07/18/07 10:48 PM Re: Yamaha RX-659 vs. Denon AVR-787 [Re: rcstevensonaz]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10621
Craig, in my experience a small vertical speaker above the TV(possibly placed upside-down and also angled slightly downward toward your ears)works very well. Even more ideal would be a setup such as Robb(Hutzal)uses, with vertical M2s above and below the screen, so that the sound appears to be coming from the middle of the screen.
_________________________
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Enjoy the music, not the equipment.



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#172468 - 07/19/07 12:05 AM Re: Yamaha RX-659 vs. Denon AVR-787 [Re: rcstevensonaz]
SirQuack Offline
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Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13565
Loc: Iowa
My 4 Qs8's are about 7ft off the ground. If you place them as high as you say, you might want to angle them down slightly, that seems pretty high if your saying 7ft above the listeners. jm2c
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#172469 - 07/25/07 08:27 PM Re: Yamaha RX-659 vs. Denon AVR-787 [Re: rcstevensonaz]
rcstevensonaz Offline
regular

Registered: 05/06/07
Posts: 5

Is anyone familiar with the "User Mode" of the Denon receiver?

The manual is pretty terse, which leads me to suspect it does not do what I want it to...

What I would like is to have complete setup configuration stored under each profile. E.g. subwoofer cross over frequency, speaker profiles (e.g. distance & dB adjustments), 5.1+2 vs. 7.1 mode for zone setting, etc.

-- Craig

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