 EP500 bass output
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Hey, I was able to get a new receiver and new subwoofer cable to test my EP500 sub.
Now I am just wondering about the sub output.
Now dont get me wrong, the EP500 DOES give A LOT of bass. But for some reason I think I am overestimating my expections.
Why I think so? Because a lot of members in this forum report that they only need to turn the volume of the sub only 1/3 of the way and its give A LOT of bass.
But for me, I need to turn it half way to get a good optimal amount of bass.
I put the sub in the corner of my room and I configured the settings (db and crossover, etc) with the A/V receiver.
I think it may have to do with how large my basement is. It is around 6500 sq. feet and it opens up to upstairs. It can also be by what track or movie I play.
Tonight I am going to test out Minority Report.
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Re: EP500 bass output
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Paul, If you're only half way and that's not satisfying your thirst for BOOM BOOM, turn it up  . Also remember that music does not usually have deep lows. I don't remember how good the LFE is in Minority Report but in U-571, the depth charge scene shakes my couch with the 600 in my 4,000 cubic foot space with plenty of headroom on my receiver and sub volume to go. Also make sure that you have the 500 set on by-pass and flat (since you have such a large room).
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Re: EP500 bass output
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6500 Sq ft?????????????
of cubic feet?
there is a huge difference.
My room is 8,000 Cubic Ft+ and my 500, or currently 600 is plenty. Most people run their subs way to hot and don't understand what the sub's purpose is for blending properly with their mains, just my opinion.
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Re: EP500 bass output
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 Re: EP500 bass output
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I just watched Minority Report, and I was very impressed with the subwoofer output. I had it at 10:30 o'clock position and I found it suitable for the space that I had. There were some rattling because of loose objects [such as one of my light bulbs in the ceiling  (prob. loose)]. But other than that it was fine. Just wondering, at that volume position is it normal to turn it up that high for the amount of space I have? BTW, I have set the crossover to the mains and sub to 40 Hz (M80's), so I thought both of the components blended well together. Yes, I do agree that having too much bass/boom effect doesn't sound too well. But in my case, it's not like that. Could it be the layout of my room? Some architectural design of my basement? Oh, and it's cubic feet, not square.
Last edited by Paul_Bassi; 07/14/07 05:37 AM.
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Re: EP500 bass output
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Oh btw Randy, at what position do you have your EP600 volume level at and how much cubic feet do you have in that room?
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Re: EP500 bass output
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Paul,
Keep in mind that the EP 500's power amp output is related to the pre-amp's input voltage signal...can't really compare HT sub settings as different pre (receivers\stand alones) linearities will be different!
My EP500 volume setting changed from 7 o'clock (Sony Receiver) to 8 o'clock (Emotiva pre\pro) to maintain flat output in my surround system. At the 10:30 o'clock position, your receiver's LFE pre signal probably is somewhat less than most, but you should still be driving the 500 power amp the same with plenty of dynamic headroom!!!
Don't fret, the Axiom DSP in the amp's signal path should provide you with bullet proof performance...Enjoy!
Samsung 67" DLP 1080P * 2-Axiom EP500 PSW's * Emotiva UT Series Amps * Acoutimass 15's 5.1 = WOW!
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Re: EP500 bass output
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Paul, as I mentioned above, my recroom/HT room is 8,000 cu ft +. I was just confused when you said Sq Ft in your original post.
My Volume(gain) on my sub is around 7 o'clock and about -6dB on the receiver to achieve 75dB SPL on my Radio Shack meter.
Keep in mind, our getting the full power of the subs amp no matter what your gain is set. The goal is to calibrate your sub's levels to match the other speakers in SPL.
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Re: EP500 bass output
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What Theo said above is correct. However, it doesn't hurt to give you other people's settings for reference.
My 600 is set at 9 o'clock with the receiver set to -9dB to achieve 83dB using the noise generator in my Denon. I have 4,000 cubic feet.
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Re: EP500 bass output
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Quote:
What Theo said above is correct. However, it doesn't hurt to give you other people's settings for reference.
Good Point Mojo! 
BTW Paul, my EP500 gain of 8 o'clock is stricly set by ear using orchestral music and HD-DVD LFE audio reference materials (KK, U571, WOTW, Phantom, etc.)! One EP500 in my "bright" (audio & visual) living\dining theater room area (total of 7700cf) has no problems rattling shelves, furnishings and the waterbed in the far corners of my slab, double sheeted, brick home (neighbors get a "kick" out of it also)!!! 
Ted
Samsung 67" DLP 1080P * 2-Axiom EP500 PSW's * Emotiva UT Series Amps * Acoutimass 15's 5.1 = WOW!
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Re: EP500 bass output
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URGENT REPLY BACK I would need to know the cause of this problem. I am leaving out of town for more than a week on Monday. After than I am thinking of sending my subwoofer back because time is running up for the 30 trial period. Hey all, I just wanted to update you regarding this issue. I have tested my sub with a new receiver (Yamaha one): http://www.yamaha.ca/av/Receivers/HTR6080B.jspand also got a sub cable. I have used this for testing purposes and not planning of actually owning them. I rented U-571, and I played the depth charge scene. In that scene their was a lot of bass, but not much from what I am suspecting. I just have a gut feeling it can do so much more. I have got plates in a cardboard box about 12 feet away from the sub and they don't rattle. Whats going on? I don't seem to find any objects moving/rattling except a very loose light bulb on my ceiling. Also my couches don't vibrate as well (14 ft from sub) and this is set to 11:30 o'clock position. I find it very strange, because from peoples personal stories and them hearing their subs, I get nothing like that. ----- I have got a sub cable wire coming from line in to pre out sub from the receiver. I set all speakers to small, increased the volume of sub from receiver, and also put the crossover to even 80 Hz. Anythin else I should change from my receiver settings? My basement is 6400 cubic feet or so, and it has wooden floors and the back wall from where the sub is, is made of concrete at its center. Do you think maybe using a SPL meter will be helpful? I am also gonna call an expert at Axiom as well to tell me what is going on.
Last edited by Paul_Bassi; 07/15/07 09:34 AM.
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Re: EP500 bass output
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Quote:
URGENT REPLY BACK
I would need to know the cause of this problem. I am leaving out of town for more than a week on Monday. After than I am thinking of sending my subwoofer back because time is running up for the 30 trial period. Contact Axiom and let them know your time plans; they will probably be more than happy to work with you
Hey all, I just wanted to update you regarding this issue.
I have tested my sub with a new receiver (Yamaha one):
http://www.yamaha.ca/av/Receivers/HTR6080B.jsp
and also got a sub cable. I have used this for testing purposes and not planning of actually owning them.
I rented U-571, and I played the depth charge scene. In that scene their was a lot of bass, but not much from what I am suspecting. I agree, I was not as impressed with the depth charges as I was expecting. There are a couple of scenes in Finding Nemo (inside whale and Darla's tap) that blow it away I just have a gut feeling it can do so much more. I have got plates in a cardboard box about 12 feet away from the sub and they don't rattle. Whats going on? I don't seem to find any objects moving/rattling except a very loose light bulb on my ceiling. Also my couches don't vibrate as well (14 ft from sub) and this is set to 11:30 o'clock position. I really am starting to think something isn't set properly. Running that hot should have the drywall coming loose if all is set and calibrated properly.
I find it very strange, because from peoples personal stories and them hearing their subs, I get nothing like that. With a brand new receiver there may be a problem with the EP500. With the settings you're talking about you should seriously have concerns about the integrity of your room. Contact Axiom.
-----
I have got a sub cable wire coming from line in to pre out sub from the receiver. I set all speakers to small, increased the volume of sub from receiver, and also put the crossover to even 80 Hz. Anythin else I should change from my receiver settings?
My basement is 6400 cubic feet or so, and it has wooden floors and the back wall from where the sub is, is made of concrete at its center.
Do you think maybe using a SPL meter will be helpful? Absolutely! If you don't have your system calibrated it's hard to know where to point to the problem. EDIT: I see that your receiver comes with a microphone, have you run the calibration setup? This would offset the immediate need for a spl meter.
I am also gonna call an expert at Axiom as well to tell me what is going on.
Scott
Last edited by a401classic; 07/15/07 11:25 AM.
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Re: EP500 bass output
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Paul,
The depth charge scene definitely shakes my couch with the 600...and my entire upstairs. Did you check to make sure that the frequency cut-off knob on the back is set to "by-pass"? Do you have "sub-woofer on" in the receiver?
Don't get worked up about the 30 day return deadline. Call Axiom and tell them that you are having these issues. I am sure they'll work with you and extend the deadline.
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Re: EP500 bass output
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In addition to MoJos good advice, are you sure that your sub is positioned well within the room?
::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::
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Re: EP500 bass output
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Also make sure that your DVD player is connected up right. When you were watching U-571, the display on the receiver should have said Dolby Digital or DTS. If it didn't, then something is hooked up wrong. By the way on Mark's comment, no matter where I positioned the 600 in my space, it shook the whole house. I even positioned it on my landing at the bottom of the basement stairs and it was firing up towards the main level. It made no difference...it was/is an unstoppable force . You have a larger space than me by about 2500 cubic feet, with a 500 and not a 600 so maybe you do need a corner for greatest thump. But then again Sirquack had a 500 and he has 2500 cubic feet more than you and he was happy.
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Re: EP500 bass output
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Strange, with the receiver , when I play U-571, it doesn't show DTS or DD. It does show Pro Logic II, PCM, and Cinema DSP.
It also shows that all the channels, including the LFE.
The receiver is connected to the T.V with HDMI and DVD to receiver with HDMI also. I have gotten a Oppo DVD player and in the menu it has 5.1 with LFE on as well.
Does it have to be changed to DTS and with no PCM?
BTW, Axiom extended my trail period for 15 days more (Aug. 15). I'm leaving tomm. and will be back about week and half later or so.
Last edited by Paul_Bassi; 07/15/07 09:30 PM.
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Re: EP500 bass output
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When your audio is connected via HDMI through the receiver it will not show DD or DTS, it should show PCM. This same thing confused me when I first changed to HDMI, so no worries, you are getting the correct sound formats although your receiver shows PCM, what is happening is your DVD player is decoding the audio signal prior to it getting to the receiver. If you are using an optical cable on another device the receiver will show DTS or DD depending on the sound format.
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Re: EP500 bass output
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Unfortunately, I have no experience with HDMI. I am wondering however if the receiver has to be configured to "understand" PCM. Or does it switch to PCM automatically?
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Re: EP500 bass output
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Hdmi receivers should switch automatically, you set Hdmi up in the audio menu on the receiver the same way you assign optical or digital devices.(TV-opt1, DVD-HDMI 1) You usually will have to setup the video device with hdmi, DVD player, Playstation3, HDDVD player in their own menus to output via pcm.
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Re: EP500 bass output
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Quote:
BTW, I have set the crossover to the mains and sub to 40 Hz (M80's), so I thought both of the components blended well together.
Do you still have the sub x-over set to 40???? That is too low! I would never go any lower than 60 and even 80 is probably fine/better. If you go too low on the x-over you will miss some of the boom-boom you are looking for. And yes with 6500 cubit feet you have a LOT of air to move so you will need to turn it up compared to some others. 
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Re: EP500 bass output
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40 should be doable with the M80s, some prefer this with music, and switch back to 60 or 80 for movies. It just depends on the setup, the room, and the person.
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Re: EP500 bass output
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I am surprised no one mentioned that he really should be checking to see if where he has the sub is optimal. Many times, users have come onto the forum complaining that the EP500/600 is not "blowing them away". However, depending on your room, you may need to use the "sub crawl technique" for optimal placement.
Put the EP500 where you would normally sit (you will have to move your couch). Now play some bass heavy music and crawl along all your walls to see where the cleanest and loudest sounding spot is for LFE. That is where you want to put your sub.
Try it all over again, it should make a huge difference. If you do not want to do that, try walking around your room, or sitting in different spots, some spots will have more bass than others, this will tell you if the sub is working correctly.
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Re: EP500 bass output
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You do have a very large space for the EP500 to fill. I think it would do a good job, but it may not be possible to acheive what you expect in a space that big.
As Mark AND Robb suggest, placement is optimal and may make the difference in a large room. A corner typically would give you more reinforcement and volume, but may or may not be the best positition for a sub in your room.
Last edited by dllewel; 07/17/07 03:14 PM.
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Re: EP500 bass output
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Quote:
I am surprised no one mentioned that he really should be checking to see if where he has the sub is optimal.
I wrote above:
Quote:
In addition to MoJos good advice, are you sure that your sub is positioned well within the room?
I think the OP has disappeared, though!
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Re: EP500 bass output
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I use 40 with my M80s. Of course, individual crossovers for each channel, so....
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Re: EP500 bass output
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Maybe I'm misunderstanding but, if he sets the x-over for the LFE/Sub to 40 will he not only get everything 40 and below sent to the sub?  If that's the case, then he is missing too much low end and it will make his sub sound weak. My receiver only goes down to 80 for everything so for me to test this I have to use the x-over on the sub itself. If I set it to 40, very little BOOM comes out.  But, when I set it to 80, or to disabled by turning it all the way up, the BOOM is much greater.
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Re: EP500 bass output
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Joey,
The M80s are effective down the 30hz. So setting the crossover at 40hz shouldn't be a problem, its really a matter of preference, does he want more low end from the sub or the mains?
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Re: EP500 bass output
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Ah, misunderstanding. If he sets the sub crossover (the dial on the sub itself) to 40, that would be bad. If he sets the crossover in the receiver to 40, it's fine, although he'll probably be missing stuff from the center and surrounds, unless he can set the crossover by channel.
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Re: EP500 bass output
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I'm still here!
Ill be coming back home in a few days. When I come back I will follow your guys advice and see if anything helps.
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Re: EP500 bass output
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I am still busy, but I am going to get an Onkyo receiver soon, and I will test out the sub with it as well.
I am now getting use to the performance of th sub. I believe the main reason is because it is in a large room.
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Re: EP500 bass output
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Paul,
You mentioned in an earlier post that you had the 500 adjusted to the 11:30 position. I assume this means "noon" when you are looking at the sub from the top.
Try this. Set the 500 to "full" and dial down the volume to 8 or 9 o'clock (referenced from the back of the sub; 2 or 3 o'clock looking down from the top). Leave your cross-over at 80Hz. Large or small for your fronts is your choice. And make sure you have properly set the distances for all the speakers in the receiver. How does that sound now?
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Re: EP500 bass output
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I put it to 'full' and I noticed a pretty big improvement. I now just have to turn the volume knob to 9 o clock position instead of 11:30. Thanks!
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Are you happy with the sub now and does it meet your expectations or not? I'm looking at getting one as well, but I want to feel it hit in my chest. I've read a lot of up and down threads about these subs. It's either the EP500 or one of the SVS lines of sub.
Receiver: Yamaha RX-V2200
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CC: Axiom VP150
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Re: EP500 bass output
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Alex, Why do you want it to hit you only in the chest? It should also have deep, smooth, transparent, enveloping bottom end that should hit you right in the bollox .
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Re: EP500 bass output
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My feeling is that it can do both.
I can't run it at full bore because I feel like it's vibrating me so much that my whole molecular structure is changing. I'm afraid of being turned into a giant blob or some kind of mutant. Mutant would be great if I get super powers, but I'm not convinced that will happen.
When I find the balance point, it creates super realistic bass in music and still freaks me out in movies. I don't have a 'trained ear' but I have friends who have louder subs (cause I turn mine down) but none are as clear as this while still rocking your world.
I haven't heard a lot of other subs in this price range so I won't try to compare it to others. Just saying it can do whatever you want it to do. Plays music like your in the front row or turns you into the swamp thing! What more could you ask?
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Re: EP500 bass output
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For larger rooms I've had the best luck with the trim to "flat". The other settings increase and boost the 33hz range which causes more problems in getting a flat response. jmo
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I forgot to mention that my downstairs has a large opening that extends all th way to my second floor. So essentially the sub is filling a room close to 5000-6000 sq. ft.
I could take pictures of the opening if that helps.
Last edited by Paul_Bassi; 08/06/07 07:18 PM.
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My HT/Recroom is 8,000+ Cu Ft, which has a large hallway that blends into about another 8,000 Cu Ft of bedrooms, bathrooms, etc... My 600 does just fine.
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Can you elaborate what you mean by fine? Such as what position is your volume knob turn up to, and what crossover and phase? Also, how loud can it go (without having it TOO loud)? Is it enough to actually shake things a lot (such as move objects? Does it vibrate your seats? Does it matter if the sub is on a wooden floor instead of carpet? Does it affect performance? Thanks! *Edit* Oh yeah, sorry about bombarding you with tons of questions.
Last edited by Paul_Bassi; 08/06/07 07:46 PM.
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Re: EP500 bass output
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I guess I was just trying to say that my current 600, and even when I had a 500 before that, had no problem filling my room with deep LFE and bass. A lot has to do with placement of your sub to get the best frequency response throughout your room. I currently have the 600 along the left wall, below my "first reflection" sound panel. I have the ep600 volume knob around 7 o'clock (pretty low), trim on "flat", and crossover knob on "bypass". The receiver crossover is set to 80hz and all speakers set to "small". The dB's for the sub channel is about -5dB's after calibrating everything to 75dB SPL using the Radio Shack meter. If calibrated correctly, it does not go TOO loud, however gives me a great lowwww experience and blends nicely with my m80's. LFE on movies is great. I still use the Darla "Tap" scene in Finding Nemo to impress guests. Feels like your chest is being punched.. If your getting a lot of rattles in your room, you may be running your sub levels to hot, many people do this versus having things setup accurately. I'm sure the type of floor can play a part in your experience. My basement is thick padded carpet over concrete. Low LFE pretty much passes through anything.
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shareholder in the making
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,490 Likes: 116 |
My settings aren't much different than Randy's. In the Darla tap scene, I feel my bowels rattling, the whole house shudders and the bass is transparent and expansive. But I don't feel a chest punch .
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Re: EP500 bass output
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 13,840 Likes: 13
shareholder in the making
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shareholder in the making
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 13,840 Likes: 13 |
I do, but it is normally my 3 or 8yr old punching me during a movie.
M80s VP180 4xM22ow 4xM3ic EP600 2xEP350
AnthemAVM60 Outlaw7700 EmoA500 Epson5040UB FluanceRT85
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Re: EP500 bass output
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 16,441
shareholder in the making
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shareholder in the making
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 16,441 |
A chest punch requires massive air movement. The only time I've truly felt a chest punch from a subwoofer (probably more like SubwooferS) was at the Mann Chinese Theater in Hollywood. That was some crazy bass. In addition to chest thumps, the legs of my jeans would vibrate visibly.
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 Re: EP500 bass output
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 68
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 68 |
Quote:
My settings aren't much different than Randy's. In the Darla tap scene, I feel my bowels rattling, the whole house shudders and the bass is transparent and expansive. But I don't feel a chest punch .
AGREED...Darla's tap scene rattles cabinets, dishes and many other loose objects in other rooms!! It certainly is a sub-audible, viseral experience...no matter where the volume is set!  Always impressive and shows just how deep the EP500 goes!
Now, U571 Depth Charges will punch you in the gut and rattle your teeth...cats, dogs and the wife all run for cover, hehe!
Ted
Samsung 67" DLP 1080P * 2-Axiom EP500 PSW's * Emotiva UT Series Amps * Acoutimass 15's 5.1 = WOW!
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Re: EP500 bass output
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 81
old hand
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OP
old hand
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 81 |
Aight, i borrowed Finding Nemo from a friend of mine and I played Darlas's tap scene, and nowhere do I feel any sort of rattling nearby objects or my couch shaking, etc. The wall that is behind the sub is made of concrete, not dry wall like the adjacent side to it.
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Re: EP500 bass output
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 81
old hand
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OP
old hand
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 81 |
ok well I contacted one of the experts at Axiom and what I did was I put the coxial cable from the sub to the audio output of either front right or left channel of the Oppo DVD player to test out the output.
The output made a HUGE difference.
Prob. is I am not gettin that kind of output with my brand new DENON receiver (such as playing CD's / DVD's, watchin T.V, playing Wii, etc).
Any suggestions?
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Re: EP500 bass output
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 18,044
shareholder in the making
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shareholder in the making
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 18,044 |
What output level do you have set for the sub on the Denon? Also check if (and I don't know that this is the case) the output levels vary based on which decoder/input you're using.
I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!
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Re: EP500 bass output
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,490 Likes: 116
shareholder in the making
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shareholder in the making
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,490 Likes: 116 |
Quote:
Aight, i borrowed Finding Nemo from a friend of mine and I played Darlas's tap scene, and nowhere do I feel any sort of rattling nearby objects or my couch shaking, etc. The wall that is behind the sub is made of concrete, not dry wall like the adjacent side to it.
Concrete or no concrete, your house should definitely be shaking. Something is definitely wrong.
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Re: EP500 bass output
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,490 Likes: 116
shareholder in the making
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shareholder in the making
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,490 Likes: 116 |
Quote:
ok well I contacted one of the experts at Axiom and what I did was I put the coxial cable from the sub to the audio output of either front right or left channel of the Oppo DVD player to test out the output.
The output made a HUGE difference.
Prob. is I am not gettin that kind of output with my brand new DENON receiver (such as playing CD's / DVD's, watchin T.V, playing Wii, etc).
What are the bass management settings in the Oppo?
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Re: EP500 bass output
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 81
old hand
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OP
old hand
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 81 |
For the DENON setting I have the sub level at +9.0 . I only have the front two and center channels connected and it uses DD pro logic IIx (I believe).
It was awhile since I took a look at my DVD settings, but I had the sub on 'yes'. I take a look at it tomorrow or something.
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Re: EP500 bass output
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,490 Likes: 116
shareholder in the making
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shareholder in the making
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,490 Likes: 116 |
Quote:
For the DENON setting I have the sub level at +9.0
The 500 should be buckling your walls at a setting of +9!
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Re: EP500 bass output
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 683
aficionado
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aficionado
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 683 |
Optimally, your Denon sub level should be approx. at 0db, and the volume knob at the sub itself, while looking at the amp plate from behind the subwoofer, should be at approx. 7 to 8 o'clock. Anything beyond that would be overpowering.
Epic 80 / SVS PB13 Ultra
Denon 3805 / M2200 Outlaw Monos /
Sammy 55" LED
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Re: EP500 bass output
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 6,955
axiomite
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axiomite
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 6,955 |
I'm sure you have already checked but i have to double check the sub settings every time I run the auto DB setup on my Denon. It does a great job of setting all the speakers but it always sets the sub so low in the minuses that I can barely tell it's there. I manually crank it back to zero and resume shaking the house until my wife complains.
With great power comes Awesome irresponsibility.
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Re: EP500 bass output
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 13,840 Likes: 13
shareholder in the making
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shareholder in the making
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 13,840 Likes: 13 |
+9?
That would knock down my foundation at that level????
M80s VP180 4xM22ow 4xM3ic EP600 2xEP350
AnthemAVM60 Outlaw7700 EmoA500 Epson5040UB FluanceRT85
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