Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Advice from Axiom Owners M60s - 2 channel vs. home theater listening

I am seriously considering purchasing the M60s - have the M22s now and really like the detail but would like a slightly fuller sound.

I would like to hear how M60 owners are configuring the receiver crossover for 2 channel vs. home theater. I realize a good deal of this is preference.

I would be running them with a Pioneer 45TX and HSU VTF-2 sub.

My initial thoughts:

2 channel - set to LARGE without the sub OR set to LARGE with the receiver crossover set to "50".
Home theater - set to SMALL with the crossover set to "80".

Interested in your thoughts.

Mark

Mark, if you would be using the M60s without the sub, of course you would set them "large", but why would you choose to do so, instead of taking advantage of such an excellent sub? The M60s have good low and mid-bass, but the VTF-2 is still better. As far as the crossover goes, in both multi-channel and two channel operation it should be at 80hz, with all speakers "small" . There's no good reason for any difference and you should allow the VTF-2 the same opportunity to handle the frequencies which it does best.

I too had the M22's paired with a Hsu VTF-2, and made the switch to the M60's.

Listening to music, I set the M60's to small and have the crossover set at 40 or 60 (depending on what I'm listening to)

For movies I bump the crossover up to 60 or 80.

I'm not a huge fan of tons of bass, and I also live in an apartment, so taming it a bit is always good karma.

As much as I love my M22's the M60's are that much better. You won't regret making the upgrade.

John,

I understand where you and Spiff are coming from but I think the confusion is: If a sub is needed to really round out the bottom with the M60, what is the real advantage to the M60 over the M22 - the ability to play louder easier?

Mark

That was my thinking when people told me the M60's were better than the M22's as well. It's kind of hard to explain. The M60's just have a fuller sound to them. Even without the sub, they're amazing. You can TOTALLY get away with using the M60's without a sub. (especially for music), but a sub just adds a bit more depth.

Like I said, when listening to music, I have the sub crossed over at 40hz...that's really low. I'm only using it to flesh out the really lower end.

I had a fellow boarder over a little while back and we listened to a bunch of music sans sub because he'd be using them in his home without one. I was VERY impressed with what they could do without a sub. He was too - he had to ask more than once if the sub was turned off.

(btw...he now owns a pair of M60's himself!)

Mark,

I know what you went through in picking the M22 and the sleepless nights. I know what both the M22 and M60 sound like, and I am 100% sure you will not have those sleepless nights because of the sound...you will love the M60.

Now not sleeping because of your pocketbook is another question.

curtis

Mark, my suggestion for you is: Forget about all the preoccupations regarding how the full-range speakers are supposed to be setup blah blah, and just do the actual experiments without ANY a priori assumptions. Try all possible configurations -- SMALL vs. LARGE, 2.0 vs. 2.1 vs. matrix-5.1, various crossover frequencies, etc. -- carefully calibrate each setting, and simply pick the setting(s) best sounding to your ears.

Just as an example, my front L/R speakers are the Hales System Two, which readily go down to 35-40Hz. However, after experimenting with various settings, I am currently using them always set as SMALL, with my Hsu VTF-3 sub crossed-over at 80Hz. This is both for the 2.1 and 5.1 listening. Although the Hales do stereo okay without a sub, adding the sub really opens up a new dimension to the music (even for small chamber ensembles). I experimented with various crossover frequencies for the 2.1 and 5.1, but in the end, 80Hz was best for my gears, room, and taste.

And the theory dictates that, even if you crossover a full-fange floorstander at a relatively high frequency such as 80Hz, you are NOT “wasting” anything. By freeing up the M60 from the power-hungry, high-excursion bass duties, you will definitely get a lower-distortion, higher-quality reproduction of the above-80Hz sound components. The speaker will also be able to play much louder with less stress/distortions -- a very important factor in faithfully rendering dynamic peak sounds. Also, there is one highly relevant difference between the M60 and M22 that is so obvious people seldom bother to mention: the M60 is a 3-way design, so both the woofers and tweeter are responsible for much narrower frequency ranges, being relieved from the added midrange duty. This alone should result in much lower intermodulation distortions and driver resonance as compared with the M22, especially at high sound levels. Comparative impressions from many people here attest to it. So, even if you end up with setting the M60 as SMALL with an 80Hz crossover, the M60 would still retain distinctive sonic advantages over the M22 (even though their basic characters are very similar). Your additional $$$ were well spent anyway, I guess.

"...even if you crossover a full-fange floorstander at a relatively high frequency such as 80Hz, you are NOT “wasting” anything. By freeing up the M60 from the power-hungry, high-excursion bass duties, you will definitely get a lower-distortion, higher-quality reproduction of the above-80Hz sound components. The speaker will also be able to play much louder with less stress/distortions -- a very important factor in faithfully rendering dynamic peak sounds. Also, there is one highly relevant difference between the M60 and M22 that is so obvious people seldom bother to mention: the M60 is a 3-way design, so both the woofers and tweeter are responsible for much narrower frequency ranges, being relieved from the added midrange duty."

Sushi --

Great points. You also bring me back to another important point - the fun is in the playing around with different placements and finding what works for ME the best.

Mark

Mark, to clarify, my suggestions were made in case you actually do decide to get the M60s. I've never heard them and my experience with the bookshelf vs floorstanding similar models of other makes hasn't(above the low bass handled by a sub, of course)shown me any more "fullness" or any other other advantage of the floorstanders. In general I'm firmly in the bookshelves plus sub camp as being the best solution taking price as well as sound into consideration.

I too was SOLIDLY in the bookshelf/sub camp. Before the M60's I'd never owned a tower speaker, because I'd never heard a tower I liked as well as a bookshelf paired with a sub. Towers always have a tendency to muddy up the upper-bass.

With the M60's I found the first tower I really liked the sound of.