Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater Newbie HT Purchase - Advice Appreciated

You're very welcome. Hope they'll be of some assistance.

You've received a ton of great advice already so I'll try leave the technical out of it and come at it from another angle.

For a total FUN perspective. I think you would have more initial wow factor if you go with the best fronts you can afford with an equally impressive sub to start.

If the M80s would mean waiting for the sub or start robbing the speaker fund because you need a bigger receiver, I think the M60s would safely keep you immune from 'upgraditis' for a long time in a room of that size. I'm an admitted newb but I'm still overwhelmed by mine.

Anyway, I'm digressing. My point point was that from the "Fun Factor" point of view, well chosen fronts and really impressive sub will really pump up the initial fun factor more than any other upgrade.

A center for dialog clarity is nice but I could wait.
Surrounds are very cool but not all movies truly utilize them as well as they could and finally for music, stereo and a sub is still pretty sweet and often preferred by some.

You can get some OK surround effects from whatever you have left over for speakers, but great fronts and a good sub are really what make your visitor's mouths drop.

My humble opinion, of course. Just another angle from a different perspective.

Great advice, Murph.

I would agree with Murph and Mojo; there's nothing more impressive than a good LFE session. Personally, I'd try to stretch the budget a little and get the M60's and a VTF-3.

I'm still confused about the surround placement, though.

I understand the ones on the beam are behind you, which is good. I'm not sure moving them farther apart is going to make a huge difference, and you won't know for sure until you acquire the QS8's anyway. But then you mentioned that the "side surrounds for 7.1" are also wired. Typically, a 5.1 setup uses "side" speakers either just in front of or just behind the listener, and a 7.1 system adds "rear" speakers behind the listener. So, before you go relocating the speakers on the beam, can you draw me a map or take a picture or something so I can better understand the layout of the room, particularly where ALL the speaker wiring is located? I'm a visual learner In other words, maybe you want to use the wiring for what you thought were the 6/7 channels as the 4/5 channels depending upon where they are located.

I'm sure the Onkyo will be fine. My experience was that, when I bought my low-end Denon several years ago, I thought I'd "never need or want more power" but now I'm getting itchy in that regard and my upgrade path is more expensive because I'd need to acquire both an amp AND a new processor.

@Murph - that is very sound advice, because if we're not having fun, then what the heck are we doing?! I really appreciate your perspective and agree 100%.

The more I look at it, the more I think the M60's and a great sub would be a good start, as opposed to getting the M80's alone for now.

@Tomtuttle - I probably couldn't afford the VTF-3 right now. What about the VTF-2 MK3 / M60 combo? More in my price range.

Here's a schematic on my theatre area.

If it doesn't come up, click here: (http://shire.smugmug.com/gallery/3246319#179718587-O-LB)

Hope this helps you get a better idea of my situation.

Also, as I'm looking at bang-for-buck vs. long-term satisfaction, I keep bouncing back-n-forth between this discussion, and getting a complete xSeries 5.1 set up for the price of 2 M60's and a sub here. Since I haven't heard ANY of these speakers yet, AV123 or Axiom, and I can't really test them out, could somebody tell my just how much better is the setup we're discussing here in comparison to getting:

X-MTM (pair)
X-LS (pair)
X-CS
and a HSU sub
link: http://www.av123.com/products_category_brand.php?section=speakers&brand=55

...all for about $1400.

Because, for the M60's and the HSU VTF-2 MK3 Sub, I'm looking at about $1400 as well, but without the surrounds and center.

I'm pretty sure even my noobie mind is right in thinking the Axiom M60 is better than the xSeries MTM's, but I'm wondering is a night and day type of difference? Or is it a minimal difference?

Thanks for putting up with my indecisiveness and possibly, my total ignorance here.

Whoa. That is one heckuva nice diagram. Hope you didn't just tool that up for this little conversation. That's got to be a fantastic room!

On the AV123 v. Axiom question, there are a few things I'd like to assert.

1. It's not an apples v. apples comparison. The x-mtm is more comparable to the M50 than to the M60 in size and driver complement. The M50's could also be an excellent choice for you.
2. Nobody has heard the x-mtm yet. It's not available. So, there's no way for ANYBODY to "know" how YOU might think it compares to the M60. I would say that - in most things in life - you get what you pay for. With both Axiom and AV123, most customers feel that they got good value (i.e. a bit MORE than they paid for). So, it's going to come down to your personal preference and your assessment of value. Arrange auditions if you can.
3. For HT use, the Axiom QS surrounds are - I believe - far superior in design and performance to just about any small, directional bookshelf speaker.
4. Shipping is free at Axiom. It is NOT free at AV123.

Regarding the sub - you might want to consult the folks at Hsu. You could always start with a VTF-2 and then add a second one if you find that you need "more".

Regarding speaker placement, thanks for the diagram. (barrage of disclaimers follows). There are still unknowns. Personal tastes vary. The room is important. You don't know until you try. Only your opinion matters. There are several different approaches that you might find satisfying. A rolling stone gathers no moss. Kilroy was here. Wait...

As I understand your room, I'm not sure that ANY of the specified "surround" locations are really optimal.

You're pretty much locked in (and nicely so) on the display and seating.

Do I understand correctly that the bar is basically all at/below bar height? That is, there are no "upper cabinets" or walls hanging over the "bar" section that juts into the room, right?

First off, I think this room SCREAMS for 7.1 (eventually). I would absolutely plan for a pair of REAR QS speakers (or even maybe M2's) on the long wall parallel with the pool table. That implementation is going to make your 25% music time go from blah to great. It's also going to fill out the HT experience significantly since it is such a big room.

As to the surrounds, that's a tough one.

I think positions 1 and 2 are too far forward to do you any good. I think positions 3 and 4 being right on top of the listening position could be problematic, too.

The QS surrounds are pretty forgiving in placement, and given your room, are an especially good choice.

It's not absolutely essential that the surrounds are symmetrically placed relative to the listening position. Your receiver will have settings for you to calibrate the distance and volume. Symmetry is good, but I don't see how you can make it work. The low ceiling height is going to make it problematic if not impossible for you to ceiling mount the speakers; I think having the QS8's wall mounted will be a much more elegant approach.

You could put the surrounds on the back wall (spaced wider than the "rear" speakers).

I would try the right surround on the wall to the left of the opening to the office over by the bar.

The left surround is more problematic. At the end of the wall with the cubby door might work, but it might have to be a bit low because of the beam. Or, you could try either side of the door on the wall where the stairwell comes down, but the wall with the cubby door is going to get in the way.

The existing wired speaker locations would work really well if your viewing distance was 6' instead of 12'.

Yeah, I get it Thanks.

Really, I don't know enough about the Yamaha receiver line. I know mdrew has the 661, but I don't know squat about the 659. Do your due diligence with multiple authoritative sources.

I wouldn't move the seating closer.

Quote:

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Yamaha V659 (Now), Mits HD1000u (Now),
M60's (Now), VTF-3 (Now)

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Great plan. Your budget's busted, huh?

Welcome aboard.

Meant to say 661...yeah... budget's destroyed.