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Add on rear surrounds?
#175317 08/24/07 11:29 PM
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JoeTiVo Offline OP
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Hi folks,

I'm a owner of a Axiom system I bought about 3-4 years ago. I have M60 towers, VP100 center and QS4's for surrounds (and a SVS sub). I'm finally remodeling the basement in to a dedicated theater and I'm going to take advantage of my 7.1 receiver and add rear speakers. Should I add two more QS4s or maybe a couple of M3s?

The room is going to be 21x14, drywalled with carpet. Design for the theater can be viewed at the bottom of the page here: http://manntheater.blogspot.com/

Thanks for any advice or suggestions!

Steve

Re: Add on rear surrounds?
JoeTiVo #175318 08/24/07 11:40 PM
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Steve, I just replaced my direct radiating speakers with a pair of QS4's yesterday, I really prefer the sound of the Q's back there, perhaps it may be that my room has always been acoustically challenged, but the Q's in my case gave a much more immersive surround feel. They sound great when playing SACD's also.


A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kick boxing.
Re: Add on rear surrounds?
JoeTiVo #175319 08/25/07 12:08 AM
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Steve,

I've been experimenting quite a bit with my 4 QS4s. In my 4,000 cubic foot room, I can honestly say that the rear QS4s are a waste of money. I suggest you stick with a 5.1 set-up but make provisions for a 7.1 for future-proofing.

Good luck.

Re: Add on rear surrounds?
JoeTiVo #175320 08/25/07 12:48 AM
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At only 14 ft wide I would suggest only 6.1 as there isn't much room for the extra channel to spread out the sound any more than 1 speaker would. I am running 6.1 and noticed quite a difference from 5.1. You could always experiment with a 6.1 and 7.1 setup before finalizing and see which you like best. Borrow some speakers if need be to do the testing.


Jason
M80 v2
VP160 v3
QS8 v2
PB13 Ultra
Denon 3808
Samsung 85" Q70
Re: Add on rear surrounds?
jakewash #175321 08/25/07 01:10 AM
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Quote:

I am running 6.1 and noticed quite a difference from 5.1.




Wow. I hear no difference between 5.1 and 7.1. So is it my bright room that is causing this? Or maybe I should position my side speakers slightly ahead of me instead of slightly behind me.



Re: Add on rear surrounds?
Mojo #175322 08/25/07 01:24 AM
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You may find more a benefit to your 7.1 if the sides were more directly to the side or slightly in front.

I had near 20ft of dead air space between my side surrounds, and my LR surround is almost like a very wide front, as the system is corner situated. The rear center speaker helped fill in the gap nicely, especially during action shots in movies. I now notice sounds from LR, RR and RC are much more defined and yet blend better during softer surround effects.


Jason
M80 v2
VP160 v3
QS8 v2
PB13 Ultra
Denon 3808
Samsung 85" Q70
Re: Add on rear surrounds?
jakewash #175323 08/25/07 01:33 AM
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My sides are slightly to the front at close to ear level on stands, the rears are raised and mounted, they fill in everything else nicely, I can hear a fairly significant difference when the rears are off.

Re: Add on rear surrounds?
HomeDad #175324 08/25/07 01:36 AM
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Quote:

My sides are slightly to the front, and the rears fill in everything else nicely, I can hear a fairly significant difference when the rears are off.




It sounds like I should move my sides. Well, there goes my nice, clean room .

Re: Add on rear surrounds?
Mojo #175325 08/25/07 02:26 AM
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I guess you'll have to move the couch back and get a bigger TV.


A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kick boxing.
Re: Add on rear surrounds?
Mojo #175326 08/25/07 02:53 AM
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I notice a difference between 5.1 and 7.1 and I'm glad I use 4 Qs8's. Mojo, it just appears from your pictures that your surrounds are very far away from you and maybe spread out to far. My rear Qs8's are maybe 8ft or so apart and not as far back as your pictures appear. Also, my left/right surrounds are slightly behind the front row and in front of the back row seating.


M80s VP180 4xM22ow 4xM3ic EP600 2xEP350
AnthemAVM60 Outlaw7700 EmoA500 Epson5040UB FluanceRT85


Re: Add on rear surrounds?
SirQuack #175327 08/25/07 03:52 AM
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I havent tried our theater in 5.1 but the side rear's are placed a bit in front of the listener, at about 6.5 feet high. Im sure we could have gotten away with 5.1 easily but its not everyday I get to design a dedicated theater so 7.1 it was since the back rears are behind us it really does give the effect of things flying over your head and stuff. Even though most movies barely make use of the surround channels

Re: Add on rear surrounds?
SirQuack #175328 08/25/07 04:27 AM
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I do have great surround sound with the vast majority of movies but I find that the rears add absolutely nothing. However, I do continue to have challenges with DPLIIx and Neo6. The vast majority of music doesn't sound better in these modes. Some music however sounds absolutely incredible. One idea I had was to send my side signals to my rears and do away with the sides to see what kind of a difference that would make. Has anyone tried that?

I finally got cable today for a free trial (not free for the cable company though as it had to spend a couple of grand to upgrade the infrastructure). Cable TV sounds absolutely incredible with DPLIIx when I make my surrounds very hot. The picture however is a different story. I prefer watching cable on my PC as opposed to my 32" LCD Samsung. Windows Media Centre works great by the way for recording programs.

Homedad, my sweet wife had some not so sweet things to say about your suggestions .

Re: Add on rear surrounds?
Mojo #175329 08/25/07 02:48 PM
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I only use DPLiix for movies, for most music I still use 2.1, unless I'm listening to a concert video that has 5.1 options, I'll check it out.

For movies if I turn off my rear speakers compared to using 7.1 in DD + PLIIx modes, there is a very noticable difference.


M80s VP180 4xM22ow 4xM3ic EP600 2xEP350
AnthemAVM60 Outlaw7700 EmoA500 Epson5040UB FluanceRT85


Re: Add on rear surrounds?
SirQuack #175330 08/25/07 03:15 PM
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JoeTiVo Offline OP
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Thanks for all the input, guys... I think I'll order the QS4s right now. The room width might be a little small to take full advantage, but I might as well go for the gusto.

Thanks again!

Steve

Re: Add on rear surrounds?
JoeTiVo #175331 08/27/07 03:26 PM
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Love the design for the theater, Steve. Thanks for sharing.


M60's
VP150
QS8's
HSU STF-2
Onkyo TX-SR805
Audiobytes for the PC
Re: Add on rear surrounds?
JoeTiVo #175332 08/28/07 01:42 AM
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Steve, as to your room width, the basic idea is that the back surround speakers should be separated at least enough for the usual listening positions to have a speaker both to the left rear and right rear. Once that's satisfied, the same principle as applies to the front speakers should also be applied: separate the back surrounds by about the same amount as your distance from them. For example, if they'd be about 8' behind your listening position, they should also be separated about 8'. In most cases your 14' room width should be plenty for adequate separation.


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Enjoy the music, not the equipment.


Re: Add on rear surrounds?
Wegiz #175333 09/03/07 01:29 PM
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Quote:

Love the design for the theater, Steve. Thanks for sharing.




Thanks... Construction starts on the 10th. I can't wait! I'll be posting pics and updates throughout the project for those that are interested. http://manntheater.blogspot.com/

Re: Add on rear surrounds?
JohnK #175334 09/03/07 01:30 PM
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Quote:

...For example, if they'd be about 8' behind your listening position, they should also be separated about 8'. In most cases your 14' room width should be plenty for adequate separation.




Excellent.. that should be just about how it works out in my case. I'm glad it will be worthwhile. I just received the new QSV4s last Friday.

Re: Add on rear surrounds?
JoeTiVo #175335 09/04/07 06:59 PM
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I'm also in the "rears make no difference" crowd. I have my QS8's spaced 12 feet apart and surround material is absolutely incredible. I'm convinced the Qs8 is one of Axiom's finest speakers. My m2i rears add nothing to the dimension, I've actually just unconnected them.

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