Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Technical Questions It just doen't sound right

I recently purchased a set of Axiom speakers.I have the M60v2's, VP150, and QS8 surrounds. Now when watching movies, something just doesn't sound right. During action scenes, all the sounds from the speakers seem to be all muffled together if that makes sense. So, the different sounds aren't separated very well. The dialog doesn't sound right either. It's kind of muffled and their is an exaggeration of the "s" sounds. During high impact action scenes, it is very apparent.For example, in Revenge of the Sith, the scene where the ship splits in half and they have to try to land it. Well, this is a loud scene and all the sounds just sound congested and you really can't tell what's what, just alot of noise. Now, I will say that I am currently running all speakers as large with no sub currently. I'm shopping for one currently. I have semi- callibrated the system. I went through all the settings, but haven't used an SPL meter yet. But I would think it would at least sound descent with what I've done so far. I can tell that something just isn't right. Any ideas? Please let me know.

Get the SPL meter, first off.

Secondly, get a sub.

What surround mode are you using? (Dolby Digital, DTS, Dolby Pro Logic II, etc.)

Hi,

Can you post a picture and tell us how far away your fronts and center are separated and how far away you are sitting from the speakers?

I definitely concur that you need to calibrate. The final calibration should always be done with your ears particularly if you have a space that is not symmetrical.

Also what type of receiver are you using and how do you have it setup. There could be a problem in your receivers setup settings and equalization.

Agreed on the calibration.

You might also check that all the speakers are 'in phase'. That is to say that your speaker wire, being actually two wires, needs to match the positive on the amp side to the positive on the speaker side.

Another way to say it (assuming everything conforms to normal color standards,) is that the wire on the amp's red colored post always goes to the red post on the speaker. Same for black. Usually, speaker wire has some writing or a stripe on one side so you can keep track of which is the wire running from red vs. black.

Speakers will still work even if you wire one or more backwards but when your left speaker is wired 'out of phase' from your right speaker, it can produce a reduced sound quality. I'm not sure if it would be as blatant as the issue you describe but it is still something worth double checking.

Out of phase speakers can be surprisingly blatant.

Might also check to see if your receiver is not stuck in some 5 channel stereo mode. In this mode, all your speakers would be sent sound to play but they would equally get all the same sounds. There would be no separation between whats supposed to be surround sounds and what was supposed to stay up front. Would definitely take the fun out of a movie but some like it for music.

Also, you might experiment with setting your surrounds to small instead of large. Definitely leave your mains set to large until you get a sub, but it can't hurt just to experiment with the others.

Good ideas, Murph.

Thanks for all the input everyone. Yes, I definitely need to get an SPL meter. As far as the receiver goes, I am using the Emotiva combo LMC-1 LPA-1. I don't have a picture with me, but I can take one and post it later. I would say my mains are about 8ft apart and my center is pretty dead center of that. My seating position is about 12 ft away. I'll have to check the equalization. As far as DPS mode, it defaults to the mode the DVD uses, but I have played with the different modes and haven't noticed a big difference. I will say that this is most noticable for movies. two channel music sounds much cleaner. As far as the speakers being out of phase, i'll double check, but I doubt it. I took my time setting it up so it should be right. It definitely can't hurt to check though. Well, I'll reply back with what I find out later. Any other suggestions are welcome and I can check those too. Thanks everyone.

Soundman,

You may be too far away or your speakers too close together (whichever way you want to look at it). Try sitting 8 feet away and see what happens. Alternatively, move them 4 feet apart. Experiment with this but start off by making an equilateral triangle between you and the speakers. This won't help with the sibilance but it should help with the soundstage.

Very odd. I have the same gear as you, and the only time that I have had something sound like what you say, is when I am in the wrong audio processing mode, such as 5 speaker "3D" or some simulated surround like DTS:Neo6 or ProLogicII instead of making sure that the source is playing 5.1 and my receiver is matched. Actually, now that I think about it, as long as the DVD player is NOT set to 2 channel audio output, the receiver autoswitches to the correct audio (as would pretty much all receivers), but I popped in the first Harry Potter movie this past weekend, and the sound was a lot like you said. Unfortunately, I couldn't find anywhere on the disk to change from 2 channel to 5.1... Very strange. I never did check the DVD box to make sure that it even had a 5.1 track on it. You would sure think so, but I got the first 4 movies as a "box set" which seemed to be a mix of "2 disc special editions" and some regular single disc editions depending on the movie.

Anyway, it is at those times when a movie doesn't default to a 5.1 sound track that I notice what you are saying. Some worse than others.

Let us know how your testing comes out.

Could it be that the DVD player is set to PCM instead of bitsteam? It happened to me once (a "friend" had played with my settings) and it took me a while to figure out why my surround sound sounded different.

I, too, was wondering if it was the settings on the DVD player since music doesn't seem to have the same problem...(?)

Did anyone notice where he said that he is running "all" of his speakers as large???? That is a big no-no!

Maybe you will get away with the M60's as large, but as for the VP150 and the QS8's you definitely need to set them as SMALL!

What you are doing is trying to run very low frequencies through drivers that cannot handle it. So not only are you possibly overloading the speakers but you may be clipping your receiver at the same time.

At least at higher volume levels, at low volume levels the QS8s (to my ears anyway) sounded a bit better when the entire signal was routed to them. But he definitely needs to set the QS8s and 150 to "small" and the cutoff in the 80 Hz range (YMMV), that cured a good portion of some similar issues I thought I was having. Pilot error ... as usual.

Oh Crap! I hope it didn't damage anything. I didn't notice any clipping so i don't think so, but still not worth the risk. I figured since I was running without a sub, I could set it to large. I'll make some adjustments and try again.

I was going to say that he has no sub...so he midaswell run them as large for now...

I wouldn't worry about damaging anything when set to large.

I think that you will be fine with them on "Large" as far as damaging them. No worries there. It will impact the sound, but like you said, there is something bigger going on here.

I've had my set up on "Large" for all of the speakers for a little while (even with a sub), but prefer small, even though they can handle it.

Check out your DVD player, or heck, plug in another one. Even a cheap one, and see if it is any better.

Divide and conquer!

Another golden typo?

I did mention that he should experiment setting his surrounds to small but since I did it without scaring him to death, maybe nobody noticed. heh heh

actually the phrase "midas well" is correct grammar. I spelt it wrong to avoid more jokes at my expense...look it up!! its correct!

I tried setting the surounds and center channel to small, and I do hear a difference. It is better, meaning not as conjested, but still not quite right. There are still alot of overemphasized "s" sounds. I still haven't got a pic to see placement. sorry. I'll try to get it soon. I'll tweak it some more and see if I can get some improvement. Does anyone know if Axiom speakers have a break-in period? I haven't had them long.

I notice these overempasized "s" sounds as well. I've read through the forums and have done my own tests. It seems the Axioms reproduce this "sssss" accurately from the source. Turning down the Treble helped.

Also if you have a Re-Eq setting on your reciever turn it ON and that (if your reciever supports THX) helps ALOT! According to some forum contributors the reason for this is the sound was meant for huge movie theators etc and not for a living room or HT.

I don't think so.

And "its correct" most certainly isn't.

I've heard others say the same thing about the "s" sounds. How much should I turn down the trebble? I know this may not be an exact science since I don't think my processor has the re-eq setting. If I had a good starting point, I could experiment with the trebble.

Re-Eq is also known as "Cinema Equalization" on some receivers. It can turn an unplaisant experience into a smooth one with some movies.

Not sure. I will adjust until it sounds a little smoother. Sometimes it could become distracting to the point where I didn't understand what people were saying if they were talking fast. Re-Eq helps and Treb adjustments assisted as well.

Also its rare that I hear this during music with vocals. It's movies with isolated conversations.

Edit: When I listened carefully at lower volumes the "sss" was still there. Just hiding behind less amplication.

Could it be that the music recordings were just recorded at a higher quality, and the DVD transfer was not as good? I'll try playing with the trebble, but was wondering if this method will effect how music sounds? Also, I haven't heard anyone talk about a break-in period for theses speakers. Was wondering if that could contribute to it since these speakers are still very new.

This only affect movies. You have to change settings when you change type of materials. TV shows should also not present the same problem. And some DVDs are re-mixed for home viewing. So there is no "magic settings" and why it is nice to have a "re-eq" or "cinema-eq" button on the receiver's remote!

I doubt very much break in has anything to do with it, maybe try a different set of interconnects from the player to receiver. More specifically use the coax connection (if you have one) opposed to the optical, if you are using it that way.

I find calibration far more likely than interconnects or break-in. (mainly because I don't think those make a difference at all--especially not for a digital connection).

Most on this board are not big fans of the break in theory, myself included. I seriously doubt changing interconnects will have any affect on the sound.

Ok I don't understand. If both a coax and an optical cable are both digital and simply transferring the exact same data of "1"s and "0"s, (assuming they are not broken) how can one possibly sound different than the other.

Does not "01001010" sound the same as "01001010" ?

I was just stirring the pot a little and my curiosity got the better of me as well. The interconnect comment stems from Mojo and I's afternoon at General Audio. It was mentioned that the optical cables have an issue with the ends not cut smoothly thus causing the light to not be transferred correctly and I guess a loss of some of the signal. I too doubt it makes adifference but I thought this might be a chance to see if it helps and proved the theory confirmed or busted.

I concede.

Jason,

I don't believe that gobbledegook for a single minute. I just didn't want to make a scene.

I am always willing to try....... once, could be he does have a poor cable, not necessarily for the reasons brought up. A crack in the fibre optic could cause issues though. I have seen this in some repairs I have had to do on cars.

I didn’t notice if you were only listening to music in stereo and movies in surround. If so you might also try checking the distance settings for your speakers. Along the same line check the channel levels set for your surrounds to make sure they aren’t playing to loud.

I found it amusing when he brought up the fact that "...once you open your mind to the wires making a difference, you will start to hear a difference." "...and you will begin to hear the music the way it was intended" to which I responded "or least the way they want you to hear it, as the wires must be coloring the sound to a certain extent or else there really isn't a difference."

Thanks everyone for their comments. Very good points. However, I don't think it is the wires. I feel like the issue has something to do with the 5.1 movie soundtracks. Music in 2 channel sounds quite good. In fact, I had my system tuned to a classical radio station last night, and I thought my wife had put on a CD, it was very clear for a radio signal. I'm only noticing it during movies. Also, their seems to be a harshness during certain dialogue in movies, so I feel like it is definitely something with the DVD playback. I may try playing with the DSP settings, althoug I'd rather not since I'm manipulating the dolby digital signal, etc. If that doesn't work, i will try another DVD player. I know more callibration is needed as well, so I will continue to to tweak it there as well. However, I've heard other systems that were not even callibrated right that didn't have this issue. Still, I do think it's best to make sure it is callibrated right. Most of my callibration has been done by ear so far, so I'll need to pick up that SPL meter soon. I will say that setting the center and surrounds to small and crossing them over(even though I don't have a sub yet), as well as lowering the trebble on the remote did help some, but I'm still hearing the "s" sounds and harshness at times, the dialoge still has a strange sound to it. I'll try some more tweaking this weekend and report back. I hope I can figure this out soon. I've heard great things about these speakers and am really hoping I can enjoy them. It's just been a little frustrating so far. Thanks everyone.

What are you running for the player and receiver? I glanced quickly over the earlier posts and I either missed it or wasn't asked.

I'm using optical to the DVD player

...just a thought. The M60v2'S have dual terminals so they can be bi-wired. Does it make a difference which set is being used? I'm not planning on bi-wiring, but just curious if this would make a difference.

Soundman,

Welcome. About the dual terminals: Check to ensure that the gold links are in place between the two sets. You can use either set, but sometimes the gold links between the two sets become dislodged and don't make electrical contact, which would cause only the woofer or midrange tweeter section of the drivers to operate. That would produce very muffled or very garbled sound quality.

Put your ear close to each driver in each M60 and listen to be sure each driver is working. Use wide-range music with lots of bass, midrange and treble (cymbals, etc.).

Regards,

I think I may have discovered the problem! My processor has 3 optical connections built in which can be assigned to different audio sources (DVD, CD, ETC) Well, after looking into it, my DVD player was assigned to "CD" not "DVD". At first I didn't know if it would make a difference, seeing as the precessing was smart enough to recognize that it was playing a Dolby Digital audio source. (there's a red light that lights up whenever a multi channel source is playing). So, it was playing it, and processing it in 5.1 surround. Well, I tried switching to "DVD", and the sound is much improved! How simple! The system still needs some tweaking, which I'll be doing with some more calibration, but it sounds 10 times better then it did. How silly of me. Thanks everyone for all your imput. A little more calibration and a nice sub, and I'll be well on my way. :^)

"Soundman,

Welcome. About the dual terminals: Check to ensure that the gold links are in place between the two sets. You can use either set, but sometimes the gold links between the two sets become dislodged and don't make electrical contact, which would cause only the woofer or midrange tweeter section of the drivers to operate. That would produce very muffled or very garbled sound quality.

Put your ear close to each driver in each M60 and listen to be sure each driver is working. Use wide-range music with lots of bass, midrange and treble (cymbals, etc.).

Regards,
_________________________
Alan Lofft Axiom Resident Expert"

Thank you Alan,
That was a very helpful hint. I did notice one of the gold links were dislodged when I first set everything up. Fortunately, I caught it initially. Great point though. That's something that could easily be overlooked.

After reading his post I too looked quickly to make sure I didn't have one strap out of whack just incase.