Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Advice from Axiom Owners m80's or m60 w/Amp?

I bought my m60's a few months ago and they were way better then my Bose 701's. I ended up keeping the m60's and awaited for the delivery of the PC13. Now that I have the PC13 Ultra, I find that I turn my system up a lot especially during HT. We have thrown a few parties now and I find that the music is a bit laid back and not very forward.

I was wondering if an Amp like Emotiva LPA-1 or IPS-1 will open them up or should I just upgrade the speakers to the m80's? My Amp will push them so there's nothing holding me back except for the choice.

A new amp won't do anything for forwardness. If anything, it will make them MORE laid back when driven at high levels, since a underpowered amp can make speakers sound harsh when overdriven.

What is your room like? Is it large, full of soft surfaces, or otherwise non-average?

Wow, I never thought my 60's sounded laid back, most people found them very detailed. Have you calibrated your speakers/sub to matching SPL, maybe your running your sub to hot?

Randy's most likely right. The sub is too hot.

Mojo Hot.

My living room is open, L-Shaped and is 14x20x8

I bought the Avia Disk and used the good old RS SPL meter. Using Avia, my sub should be at -17 and I run it at -20. That is why I'm considering either a new amp or the m80's.

So, if I were to buy an Amp, wouldn't it make the m60's louder?

Alex, my room is 31ft x 30ft x 9ft and is open into another portion of our basement. My Denon 2805 at 100watts per channel drove my previous m60's to levels that most people would not try.

You don't say what receiver your using, but as efficient as the 60's are, I would think they would be plenty loud. Yes a bigger amp would allow you to possibly crank it up further before clipping. I'm just trying to grasp your problem.

No, Alex, you're the one in control of how loud your M60s play, not the amp in your present receiver or in a new receiver or separate amp. Adding still more maximum power capacity doesn't make anything louder unless you intentionally turn up the volume level beyond what you were using before and the new level is something that your present amp couldn't do(unlikely).Keep in mind that power increases in a logarithmic, not linear way. This means that power increases from 1 to 2 watts, 10 to 20 watts, 100 to 200 watts, 1000 to 2000 watts, etc. would create the same increase in sound level(if the extra power was in fact put into use)of just 3dB, a noticeable but not substantial amount, especially if the sound level was already over 100dB(e.g. an increase from 105 to 108dB).

My current receiver is Yamaha RX V2200 @ 100w x 5. It is outdated, but offers everything that I need right now.

I was thinking of buying an amp with 150w x 7. I'm running a 5.1 system right now, so with the two remaining channels, I was thinking of bi-amping the m60's.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I have money right now and want to spend it on something. I'm looking to increase the sound and try to get ever-so-close to that Theatre Sound.

Alex,

An extra 50W isn't going to do it for you. Buy an A1400-2 for your two front channels and then you can revel in your cochleas turning to mush.

Alex, what types of levels (SPL) are you listening to that you feel are not adequate. I can't believe your 60's don't give you that "theater sound".

How do you have your speakers position, in relation to the seating position. Can you provide pictures?

Again, my room is over 8,000 cubic ft in size and my 60's were never lacking when driven by my Denon 100w amp. Now I have heard that Yammy's true power ratings fall below their stated value, but not by enough that you would perceive much difference in dB's.

That'd be my first choice if I had that much money!

The A1400-2 shouldn't cost as much as the A1400-8. You can have that much if you save up. Think about how much you are going to spend on crappy integrated receivers over the next couple of years in search of cochlea-dissolving power.

I usually listen to them around 70-85, but when I watch a movie and the kids aren't around I go 95+.



I sit roughly 17ft away from them and they are roughly 6ft apart (due to space and a fireplace) and 6inches from the wall.

Alex, just to give you a rough idea, at 85dB at your listening position the M60s would be using about 1 watt and about 10 watts at 95dB.

Your speaker separation is really too narrow(or you're sitting too far away)for the best effect. Ideally the separation should be about the same as your distance from them.

Just going by your original post I think you would find the M80s more to your liking. You say you want a new amp to open up the M60s, as the others have said that won't do it, but the M80s are more open and certainly more forward than the M60s. Are you cranking it up to make it easier to hear the details/vocals?

Mojo and I have compared his M80s to the M60s I recently purchased. I found the M60s to be not as forward as my older M22s and had heard so much about the M60 that I bought them with out hearing them. The M80s sound more like the M22s, more open and easier to hear the details than the M60s. My M60s are going back next week for M80s which should be arriving shortly.

If you can, audition some M80s which is truly the only way for you to know if they will help. If you can not find M80s try Paradigm Monitor 11s they sound very similar only the 80s are just a little more detailed/open (fill in your own adjective here)

where the heck are you getting an "A1400-2" from mojo? I have seen nothing about that.

Just because it doesn't exist, doesn't mean he/we can't ask for it .

I figured if he doesn't have a lot of money right now, a -2 would be less expensive. He can purchase additional modules later to bring it up to as many channels as he likes.

Axiom did say that they were looking into bringing out a 2 channel version of the A1400-8 with only a couple hundred watts a side, A500-2?

It would be nice if they would offer the 1400-8 case, and let users start with 2 channels, and grow as needed. That would be a more affordable way for me. I can't justify purchasing all 8 channels up front unfortunately.

I suppose the amp is modular, inside. It's a question of if they want to redesign the case to make the exterior modular (which would likely make it ha-yuge) or whether they trust customers to go in and dig around the innards by themselves. Without electrocution.

There are old electricians and bold electricians but there are no old, bold electricians.

I ended up ordering the m80's on Thursday, so they should be here sometime either this week or early next week. I'm really looking forward to them and I hope my receiver (Yamaha RX-V2200) will handle the 4ohm load. According to the manual it will, but we'll see when they get here.

You will have no problem at all driving the M80s with that receiver.

Mojo what do you think about the Yammy RX-V2095 driving the M80's