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Re: Anyone using the Denon 3808CI and M80’s
Mojo #182739 11/10/07 04:11 AM
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No, still a mere 130 watts, Mo.


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Re: Anyone using the Denon 3808CI and M80’s
JohnK #182743 11/10/07 04:19 AM
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How's that, John? The rears have their own 130W output stages. So that's 130W for each front and 130W for each rear. What am I missing?


House of the Rising Sone
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Dedicated mid-woofers are over-rated
Re: Anyone using the Denon 3808CI and M80’s
Mojo #182746 11/10/07 04:33 AM
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Sending the same amount of power through two sets of output transistors rather than one doesn't double the power or increase it by any other amount.


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Re: Anyone using the Denon 3808CI and M80’s
JohnK #182751 11/10/07 04:56 AM
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Although you cant really tell in the pictures. I think the new denons are HIDEOUS! The knobs are really the worst thing about them, Picture some cheesy walmart boombox, They have gone and stuck the knobs from one of those onto it. I was really dissapointed with the build quality of the 4308CI i was working with the other day. Everything about it just seemed cheap. The build quality was really no different than the 1508. \:\(

Re: Anyone using the Denon 3808CI and M80’s
JohnK #182752 11/10/07 04:58 AM
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John,

The rear channels are 130W each. The front are 130W each. The speaker system consists of bass and mids/highs. 130W to the bass and 130W to the mids/highs = 260W for the speaker system.

This particular amp and I believe one of the THX-certified Onkyos have this capability unless I am missing something fundamental. This flexible assignment of channels is something that could have been done a long time ago and I don't understand why it's coming of age now.

Now it's not only BrotherBob, Wid and MarkStephenJohnson that can blow their brains out. We all can...on the cheap \:D .


House of the Rising Sone
Out in the mid or far field
Dedicated mid-woofers are over-rated
Re: Anyone using the Denon 3808CI and M80’s
Mojo #182757 11/10/07 05:22 AM
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No, the output transistors have no power of their own and as you know they simply serve as valves to measure out the required amount of power from the power supply section to the speakers. Any 130 watt amplifier sends 130 watts to the bass section and 130 to the mid/high section. Only 130(nominally), not 260 watts are available; funneling through two sets of output transistors doesn't change that. No "biamping" is involved.


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Re: Anyone using the Denon 3808CI and M80’s
JohnK #182761 11/10/07 05:46 AM
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John,

I think the point that is being missed is that this particular Denon has four separate amplifiers that can be dedicated to the front speakers.

Two of these amplifiers are the usual front L/R and the other two are the rear L/R that can also be configured as fronts.

So the first two can be connected to the L/R woofers. The last two can be connected to the L/R mids/highs.

Each of these amplifiers has the capability of routing 130W to each channel. So the left channel will get 130W for the woofs and another 130W for the mids/highs. Ditto for the right.

Since each speaker can now get 260W, that's a total of 520W for the fronts. That would give me 30dB of headroom. And a full 24dB when I get crazy and decide to crank it to 1 full watt per side \:D .


House of the Rising Sone
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Re: Anyone using the Denon 3808CI and M80’s
Mojo #182763 11/10/07 06:02 AM
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I believe John is saying that you can not add the 2 seperate powers supplies together to achieve the 260 watts for each speaker. He is saying the woofers are still only getting 130W and the mids/tweets are still only getting 130watts, you can not add those 2 together as if they had 260 watts of power to draw from as they don't, there is still only 130 watts of power to each binding post, which is not the same as 260W. The woofers will be drawing from 130W and the mid/tweets will be drawing from 130W, 2 seperate channels on one speaker.

What has happened in this formula is the load on each channel has dropped and you should be able to push each one a little harder before clipping.


Jason
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Re: Anyone using the Denon 3808CI and M80’s
jakewash #182764 11/10/07 06:17 AM
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 Originally Posted By: jakewash
The woofers will be drawing from 130W and the mid/tweets will be drawing from 130W, 2 seperate channels on one speaker.


Right. There will be a 130W reserve for the woofs and another 130W reserve for the mids/tweets - for a total of 260W per speaker \:\) .

It's different from what we have on our receivers, Jason. We have A & B channels but they are connected to the same amp that can only provide 90W for A&B together. A lot of newbies think that they can connect A to the woofs and B to the mids/tweets and bingo they've got twice the power. And we know that they don't.

But this Denon is part of a new generation where you can assign 4 separate internal amps to stereo.

Now come to think of it, we can bi-amp to 4 separate amps today using our Denons by using 7-channel stereo. I personally wouldn't do it but it can be done. Just wire the front two channels to the woofs and the rear two channels to the mids/tweets and set to 7-channel stereo for 90Wx2 to each speaker.

Heck, why stop there? Pull the cross-overs out of your 80s, cut the tracks that cross over to the tweets and connect your side channels to these tracks. Remove the clips from the binding posts, set to 7-channel stereo and you can have 90Wx3 for a total of 270W per speaker.


House of the Rising Sone
Out in the mid or far field
Dedicated mid-woofers are over-rated
Re: Anyone using the Denon 3808CI and M80’s
Mojo #182766 11/10/07 07:02 AM
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Mojo, I think everyone is well aware that the amplifiers are separate. There have been several receivers offering this feature for quite some time.

However, there are a few limitations. Those extra 2 amps are hooked to the same power supply as the other amps. But even if you had 2 physically separate 2 channel amps, you would not have a doubling in power; each amp can only send its maximum. That doesn't mean that they are additive.


I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!
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