Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Advice from Axiom Owners Headphones?

I am currently looking at purchasing a new set of headphones. I was leaning towards "Sennheiser HD650" (I always had good experiences with that company with 3 headsets so far in the past 20 years).

Are any of you familiar with anything new in recent years that would make me change my default decision?

Thanks in advance.

Where is Rich when you need him I currently use a set of Grado 325is. These have been my favorite so far. I have tried some Senns in the past but not the higher end models. The ones I have tried, up to the HD570s, seem dark and not as alive as the Grado models, SR 60s iGrado and the 325s, that I have.

The AKGs are also a very good brand to look into. I have a set of AKG K501s that sound very good. Not as good as the Grados imo though.

Are you going to be running a headphone amp?

If you go with the Senns, I'd recommend a headphone amp, or a receiver or preamp with a beefy headphone section. Those Senns are somewhat hard to drive. The Grados will give you a bit more versatility in terms of power supply.

Like Wid said, hopefully Rich will be along.

I was planning to use them solely as headphones for my Onkyo-805 and mostly to get the best out of SACDs on headphones. Waiting for Rich...

Eric, check out head-fi.org. Lots of good info there. Actually, Rich (F107plus5) spends a lot of time there. I'd make it a clickable link, but it looks like the site's down for right now.

I'm talkin with him right now. He'll be on shortly.

Man, talk about service!


Err, you got a typo.

As opposed to....????

Whoops, it's fixed

-post deleted-

He's waiting for the grandchild to free up the computer.

Now that aint right, she is a sweet lady.

I know, I shouldn't have said that. Rich, if I've offended I'll strike the post.

Alright, Rick and Rick, my better sensibilities have returned and I deleted my post. I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings. Sorry, guys.

It wouldn't let me delete. ??

Now, I just see one smiley. Looks like it was changed.

I changed it but it wouldn't let me completely delete the post.

Maybe you have to replace it with something. I ended up actually typing -post deleted-

Hi guys!

Senns 650s huh?

Yeah; they're cool. A little dark(using Axiom as a standard)and power hungry compared to many headphones, but they work just great....uh; well; at least my HD600s do....on both of my Onkyos, so they should be ok on the 805.

It's true though; they should sound a bit better out of a dedicated headphone amp.

Like Rick;(wid)I also use a set of Grados. In my case a set of Alessandro/Grado MS2i for much of my listening, and they're a closer match to the Axiom personality. The HD600 that I use are also a bit closer to Axiom than the HD650s as they're a bit more neutral and a little lighter in nature. The HD650s are generally considered to be the better over-all set of cans, but a lot of Senns fans(five like HD600 and ten like HD650)are happier with the HD600 since they are a bit less dark and aren't quite as sensitive to having a top-notch system to support them to get the absolute best out of 'em. The HD600 are a little less picky about the system that they live in.

....for instance; try stating on the Head-Fi forum that you're running an HD650 straight out of a receiver, and you'd wish you had your flame-proof suit fully buttoned! Those HD650 guys are more than just a little anal!!

Another thing to consider(and this is where the standard Head-Fi Welcome comes into play..."Sorry About your Wallet")...headphones aren't like speakers where one size pretty well fits all. With phones; different phones are better for listening to different types of music. For bigger classical pieces the Senns are hard to beat. For rock, the Grados are the thing. So ya gotta think of which kinds of music you're most interested in.

Senns of course will play rock and Grado will do classical, but there are some benefits of being more task specific. The Grados are more forward and bright while the Senns are more laid-back and darker, but they're both equal in their sound quality.

One set of Senns that may be worth a bit of study would be the HD595. They're a bit more middle of the road in their presentation and a little less demanding of a good amp. I haven't heard them myself but they have quite a following in the Senns camp.

Another thing that's nice about cans.....

....they can hide a lot of faults in a sucky listening room!
Rich.

Gee, I started typing and a lot more happened!

This is a fun forum; I really gotta get here more often!
Rich.

Also, one thing to look at is long term use comfort. Everyone has a different shaped head and ears, and each brand of cans offer their own pluses and minuses. Some just take getting used to, like wearing a new pair of glasses--kind of uncomfortable at first, and then you get used to them.

Holy Smoke! I just had a look at headphone amps... Geez... Are they also selling speaker cables, by any chance?

So far, it sounds like the HD650 is what I want (classical only) and I am already comfortable with the Sens design. But I am not ready to throw a few K$ for a headphone amp just yet. I may have to find a store that sells a bunch and got and try it for myself.

Thanks all for your advice. It may take a bit before I jump in (or not!). I'll let you all know.

Actually, I just checked the site where I found the price of the headphone amds (headphone.com) and they do sell 12-gauge speaker cables for 8$/foot...

There are plenty of less expensive headphone amps worth looking at. I use the Creek OBH 11 and am happy with it. I am having a guy build me a tube/ss hybrid amp right now. Hopefully I'll get it before Christmas.

It's not a given that your Onkyo wont be up to par for you. Give it a try and see if you like it. My Rotel RC 1070 has a real nice headphone unit.

Very interesting, Rick. Will it be for a headphone only set-up, or can it double as a preamp?

Also, Eric, like Rick said, your Onkyo may be fine. My HK7200, however, has a horrible headphone unit. Yuck. Very dissappointing for what was once HK's top receiver.

It is just for my headphones.

I would retreive the info but all the info is on HeadFi and that site is down right now.

Darn server problems!

You've been served... by not being served.

That sounds a bit more down to Earth. Thanks.

Here it is they call it a SOHA. The one I have being built is slightly different but this will give ya an idea.

That looks like a pretty fun project to build. My DIY skills are limited and I would have someone build it, like you did. I like the fact that the 12AU7 is used, as that is a very common and easy to find tube. It's fairly inexpensive, too.

When you get it, let us know what you think!

Will do. Right now he is waiting on the jisbos Group buy @ headwize to come through.

Eric, I'm not really a headphone enthusiast, but I do use the AKG 501s that I've had about five years for occasional middle-of-the-night Rachmaninoff. You might consider the AKG 701s for maybe a little more detail and less heavy bass than the 650s. The Stereophile review attracted some favorable attention when it came out. The Amazon sellers have some good prices and some of the reviews are interesting. The fairly low impedance and relatively high sensitivity should work well with the headphone outputs of most receivers.

Thanks. All options are still open at this point. I have already decided to push this buy a month or so, especially if a need to have an amp for it. In the meantime, there are lots of hi-fi stores in Montreal that must have them to try.

I just ordered a pair of HD650. I had the chance to try AKG and Grados. They are GREAT headphones. But, for what I listen to: mostly classical SACDs (or DVD-Audio when they exist!) I really liked the 650. The only hic is that I was able to try the AKG and the Grados (lended from a store and a friend) with my 805 and they were great. Unfortunately, I could only try the 650 at the store (that had an Oppo-980 so I could bring a few SACDs). So I might have an issue with 300Omhs. I'll keep you posted.

They're suppose to be a great set of phones, congrats. I know Rich uses an Onkyo headphone out with his 600s (300 ohm) and likes the results.

While we are on the topic, I need a low cost replacement for my MP3 player, a Creative Zen 5GB. All my music is MP3 at 256 kHz so not bad but it's still compressed and I mostly just use it at work and when traveling so I don't really want to invest in a $250 plus set of audiophile earphones.

Any recommendations for under 100$. I'm not a fan of noise canceling via ambient noise but I would like to avoid listening to the crazy people I tend to always get put beside on planes.

Any suggestions in that price range or are they all about the same quality around there as long as I avoid obvious duds.

I tried spending some time at headfi.org but they seem to concentrate on only the high end products.

I did not go to any big length of trials and errors, but I am using (for iPod) a pair of Panasonic RP-HZE-10 that are usually retailed around 40-45$. They sound very natural.

Hi Murph,

Try a pair of Koss's "The Plug". They're surprisingly smooth, albeit with a bit of a hump in the bass, and neutral in the mids and highs. Plus they're a no-brainer at about $15, and come with a good selection of different-sized squishy foam inserts so you can get a good fit with the ear canal.

Regards,

I hate to disagree with Alan BUT those Koss plugs were junk imo, a waste of $15. I didn't hear them as neutral at all. To me they were all about fat bloated bass and the fit was horrible no matter what I tried.

I would suggest something like the ER6. I have a set of Altec Lansing im716s that were developed by Etytomic Research and they are leaps and bounds better the The Plug. The ER6s are reported to be very similar to the im716s.

Thanks all. Gives me some options. Too bad demoing head phones in the store is pretty much impossible.

My mp3 player needs are just really for background noise, I am almost always working away or reading a book when I have them on, so I'm never really concentrating on the music or how it sounds. I'll be happy if they are more comfortable than my wretched ear buds that came with the Zen and sound at least as good or a bit better.

The advice is appreciated.

For plane trips, I use a pair of Sennheiser HD-280s. They block out cabin noise really well and sound quite decent. My similarly priced Grados sound better, but don't block any sound whatsoever. And I'm not a big fan of sticking things in my ears, so "canalphones" are out.

I HATED the Koss Plugs. Sorry Alan. They are cheap, though.

For casual portable use (not air travel) I use a pair of Sony clip-ons (Sony MDR-Q22LP). Not audiophile, but better than ear buds, cheap, and durable (important for me).

Well, fit is everything. I'll disagree with you on the Etymotic in-ear models I reviewed. No bass whatsoever, none. Plus they were supplied with a skimpy set of inserts, none of which fit properly, so I requested more until I found some with a good fit. At the time, those were extra cost but I think Etymotic supplies them with the phones.

At the time, the Etymotics were $139. To show the variance, a friend of mine, a reviewer for Cnet, raved about these same phones that I dismissed. However, I was gratified to read that a number of users who posted on Cnet had the same reaction that I did.

So it may all come down to the fit to the ear canal. However, that doesn't affect midrange linearity, of which the Koss Plugs are very smooth.

Regards,

The HD-280s are 64 Ohm so you may want to check with your MP3 player first. They do sound interesting for applications such as airplanes and public places, though.

With my luck, my ear canal is square.....

[quote=MarkSJohnson]
If it is square, expect to have a lot of gain in the bass!

I bought a pair of Koss KSC75 over-the-ear phones that I like very much.

I read good reviews somewhere "official" then found the user ratings on Amazon were quite good. Of course, over-the-ear are not for everybody, but I find them the best compromise for my MP3 player in that don't need to have a perfect in-ear fit and don't fall out like in-ear buds, yet don't have the bulk and "hair-mussing" of standard phones.

These sound better than I expected, are very comfortable and, I think, are a real bargain.

Any experience out there with these two: Ultimate Ears super.fi 3 Studio or Sennheiser CX300?

I want buds/in ear to replace the ipod phones. Something portable and comfortable, with good sound. I often stick the ipod(shuffle) and buds in my pocket. This has caused the rubber part around the buds to come off. The new ones I get should have a protective case or be designed to be durable going in and out of my pocket.

I have those Etymotics and love them, but I only use then when I'm on the plane. To get good bass, you really need to have a tight seal in your ear. I use the foam tips rather than the flanged silicone.

Zarak,

You might check out some of the ear-bud models from Shure. When I reviewed a group of in-ear models (and disliked the Etymotic 6i because of its utter lack of bass and edgy upper midrange), the Shure E4c had very extended response, good bass and smooth neutral midrange. If memory serves, they were fairly expensive, about $300, but Shure has introduced other models since then.

Regards,

Thanks Alan...I can see if Shure has some lower cost ones. I was looking at the two I mentioned because they had good review and I saw them online for $71 for the Etymotic or $28 for the Sennheiser CX300.

The UE SuperFi 3 is a pretty good set too. I had those for a while and enjoyed them. As I can recall they were a bit heavier on the bass and a whole lot easier to drive than my AL iM716s. I think you would do very well with the SuperFi 3s.

Mark, I have the Koss KSC 75s too and enjoy them very much. I don't use them as much anymore, the wife took them over, but they are a great bargain phone with really good sound.

These appear to be the lowest cost Shure Headphones

At $119 MSRP, I'm guessing they can be found for under $100 online, which is what I am trying to keep this to.

Anyone familar with these? I can add them to the list.

I am not familiar with them, but Amazon has the Shure E2c for $66.39.

I have some Sony MDR-EX51LP's. I think they sound fine, but I don't use them very often. I tried and failed to like the Koss earbuds mentioned earlier. I liked the looks of those Sennheisers, too. Keep us posted, eh?

You should check out Grado headphones

Grados are my favorite headphone. I have the SR 325i, SR 60 and the iGrado but there is absolutely no isolation to them.

Peter,

I almost pushed those Etymotics (the E6i) through my skull trying to get a decent fit and some audible bass. I agree with you that they have excellent isolation, as did the Shures, but it was the Shures that delivered smooth, extended sound in my ear canals.

I think that fit and comfort and sound quality are so crucial with these earbud designs that I'd suggest anyone considering them only try them with a 30-day refundable guarantee.

Regards,

I've heard good things about the Grado, but I want to stick with something smaller like buds. I travel with the ipod a lot, even if it is just bringing it to work so I can listen there, so I like being able to just put everything in my pocket and go. Especially with the shuffle, regular headphones would be much bigger than the shuffle itself.

Absolutely, alan. My ear canals are pretty picky about what goes in there. I gave up on the iPod-style earbuds a long time ago when I couldn't get any I tried to actually stay put. Now, it's either circumaural or in-ear for me.

I absolutely refuse to do earbuds, I find they hurt my ears just to put them in.

Soo many choices....
Oddly, I find the ear canals more comfortable than the ear buds. My ears just don't seem to have a bud friendly shape. Don't even care for Bud beer! Don't find the ear clip versions comfy either when I wear glasses to read or work, so my choices are narrowing down.

Actually, I fly to Ottawa tomorrow for a couple of days so I might just go out and see what is around local. That should narrow it down a lot further.

I don't blame you for not liking Bud beer, but of course you don't like it if you are pouring it in your ear. Beer goes in your MOUTH, not your ear. Mabye you tasted the Bud beer in your mouth and thought....hmmm this stuff must be better if I put it in my ear instead. It tastes awful!

Got them! It turns out that it was not the 650 that I tried (I was stunned when I saw the 650 and they did not look like what I had tried!). Nevetheless, the sound is really, really good. Not anywhere competing with M80, but in my living room, the bass is really deep and balanced, instrument attacks and releases are accurate and the headphones have nice dynamics.

Pretty happy with my purchase! Now, all I have to do is find a friend that has a headphone amp to see (hear?) if there is a noticeable difference with the jack out of my 805.

The Sennheiser PX-100's were well regarded. I picked up a pair for about $60 a year or so ago.

I have a pair of Sennheiser HD580s (almost the same as the 600s) and their newer 595s. I really, really like both but give the edge to the 595s since they're a bit more forward with more defined bass (the 580s are a bit laid back). I thought about the 650s at one point, but decided I wanted to try a slightly different sound (the 650s are pretty much the natural evolution from the 580s, whereas Sennheiser went a slightly different route with the 595), and I wasn't disappointed.

The other nice thing is that the 595s are much easier to drive, and though they obviously benefit from a nice headphone amp (I use a great, cheap little tube amp called the Little Dot II++), they sound decent enough out of your standard headphone jack (even the iPod can handle them well).

Have you tried an upgraded power cord with that tube amp yet?

To revive a thread from a couple of months ago, I ended up with the Ultimate Ears super.fi 3 Studio. They came with multiple in ear fittings. I dropped down to the smaller size, and they fit well. I like them so far, definately hearing details I didn't hear with the buds that come with the iPod.

Time to do this again though. My wife got an iPod classic for Christmas (from me) and now she wants headphones to go with it. She has a birthday in 6 days, so this is something I can pick out for her. She wants standard headphones, no clips. She doesn't like buds, and is having trouble with the standard ipod buds. They should be portable, since they will be for ipod use.

I'm looking at these based on the cnet reiview, but wanted other suggestions as well.

Portable headphones, standard band (no clips, buds, etc) some noise cancelling for flying would be helpful, under $100 price range.

Note: she would readily admit that she is not an audiophile. Her main concern will likely be something comfortable and portable, but I of course, want to get her something that sounds good too. Any other suggestions?

Sennheiser HD0280 Pro, possibly. They are quite large, but will offer better noise isolation than active cancellation. Pretty comfortable, decent sound.

I don't trust C|Net to review anything; they tend to be very, very advertiser driven.

A couple of people mentioned liking the Grado. Do they have any noise cancellation?

Nope, no noise cancellation on Grados, and they're all "open" design, so they let plenty of noise in. I really like mine, and they're fairly portable (they store flat). I think they're decently comfortable, but they are not known for comfort.

But probably not what you're looking for.

I use Sennheiser HD280s when I want sealed headphones. They're well built and block noise quite well, and sound decent, but they're not especially light and portable, and apply a good deal of force to the head (which helps the seal, but may not appeal to everyone).

Headroom (headphone.com) has a bit of audio snake oil floating around their site, but they have spot-on advice regarding headphones for various uses and price ranges.

I came up with these options from headphone.com:

akg-k-26-p

or maybe these: sennheiser-eh-150

or Beyerdynamic DT 231

I'll keep looking and trying to narrow it down.

I would recommend the AKG K81DJ for a closed phone that is easy to drive and is fairly portable.

Not a bud choice to help out the poster who revived the thread, but I thought I would update it with what I ended up with after also asking advice in this thread regarding upgrading to a 'relatively' inexpensive, noise canceling model for travel.

While I was on that particular trip I ran across the Shure 110s for only $65.00 in a closing out sale for Music World in Ottawa. They are the lower end Shure models in the ear canal category but I figured from what I learned here, that they would be better than anything by the more 'household' brand names that live in that price range.

I had some initial disappointment when I tried them on the flight home. The passive (ear canal blocking) noise canceling worked very well on a noisy plane but I found them to be dull, kind of distant almost.

However, I am happy to say that when I got them home and I experimented with the different ear pieces that are included, that the smaller foam covers totally cured that problem. I am now VERY satisifed with them. I think maybe the medium foams that came installed just ended up being too squished in my ear canal and the openings were maybe partially or completely blocked by the squished up foam.

I can now report that they are not only more comfortable but I am also enjoying my MP3 player a lot more than I used to. Much like when I upgraded my HT to Axioms, I never truly realized just how much I was missing with my old stock ear buds.

I own a set of V-Moda Vibes and I thoroughly enjoy them. I bought them after returning the UE SuperFi 3. I returned the UEs because they didn't fit right, bass was virtually non-existent (which could have been due to the poor fit) and they blocked out too much sound. I couldn't hear my phone at my desk at work.

I find the V-Moda Vibes to be the exact opposite of the UE SuperFi 3. The choice of headphones is driven by their intended application. Some people like lots of sound isolation while others want less.

I didn't mention the AKGs (which I have and like) because they can be extremely uncomfortable, especially if someone wears glasses (like I do). I can't use them any more because of this. Without glasses, they're likely to be fine--they just have very strong clamping.

While we are on the topic of headphones, although I know it's not what you're looking for, I thought I would post this for computer users.

I have a Tritton AX360 5.1 surround sound headset which is Dolby Pro logic and Dolby Digital certified. It's supposed to be primarily used for gaming but I use it for watching movies on my computer which I do a lot of. There are three speakers and a subwoofer in each earpiece. It comes with analog inputs for the back of a sound card, and also comes with a SPDIF cable which allows you to use the headphones Dolby Pro logic/Dolby Digital processor box which allows for the best audio output.

It's pretty amazing for watching movies. With the design primarily for gamers, I can only imagine what it sounds like.

Just my two cents.

Do you own a pair of these?? I'm looking for a good all around set of cans that I can use with my stereo and maybe mp3 player, but also use to cancel out some noise when I'm flying.

I do. They're pretty good, quite comfortable. They are huge, however.

Huge is probably not going to make the wife happy, which is why I was looking at the smaller 150's for her as a possible option.

I also have the old PX200s (I think?) the original Senn noise cancellers. They work ok, but my pair broke down relatively quickly. And the sound was nothing compared to bigger cans.

Yeah, I think if I just wanted for portable with no noise cancelling then I'd consider the PX100 or 150's. and for just stereo probably the Grado's.

The fact that all sealed cans actually filter out some noise without needing the whole "active noise reduction" voodoo from some headphones probably makes the 280 one of my best bets. They dont look too big, but if you compare them to the 150 or in ear, then yeah they probably are huge.

Context is everything.

The 150's are sealed, so some of the sound should get blocked out.

And silly me for not clarifying in these parts....

Huge HEADPHONES are probably not going to make the wife happy

I think I am leaning towards the Beyerdynamic DT 231. It looks like they have good sound and comfort, with a sealed design for some noise blocking too.

There is something in the link I posted earlier about the 150's having problems with the attachment point for when the headphones are folded away, and there was mention earlier of the others I posted a link to not being comfortable. I'll have to see what else I can dig up on the Beyerdynamics. Anyone tried these?

I decided to play it safe and ask her what's most important here. The ranking, from most to least is:

Comfort
Style
Sound Quality
Portability
Noise blocking (last two are interchangeable, didn't care much about either)

The beyers have the comfort, but not the style. Looks like it's back to the drawing board. The 150's are in the lead again at this point, but I'm going to consider other options as well.

She's away until the 20th, so I have extra time for bday shopping this year (her bday is on the 15th).