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M80/Nuance/Sansui/Bose...& another Frankenspeaker
#183099 11/12/07 03:22 AM
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Yet another speaker show-down at Mojo's place today. This time it was a tag-team match of the 1980 survivors against the Y2K neophytes. In the corner to my left,representing team US and weighing in at a total combined weight of 63 pounds, the Sansui S-1917Cs and the Bose 601s! In the corner to my right, representing team Canada and weighing in at a total combined weight of 87 pounds, the Nuance Magic 1s and the Axiom M80s!

Now let's look at the pre-bout sensitivities measured with -10dB in-phase pink noise from 8 feet away. This represented about a tenth of a watt out of my Denon:

M80: 68.5dBC
Nuance Magic 1: 65dBC
Sansui S-1917C: 69.5dBC
Bose 601 series II: 62.5dBC

The sealed Sansuis have a 12" polypropolyne bass driver (which contributed to their higher sensitivity), a 4" paper mid and a 2.5" paper tweet. The Boses have an 8" paper bass, 8" paper mid and 4 X 2.5" paper tweets arranged in a "free space array" that also features an upward-firing port. The Nuances have a 7" bass that appears to be treated paper and a 1" silk dome tweet. The Nuances are about the size of M22s and are rear-ported.

I was the note-taking referee manning the switches and dials and my somewhat blind buddy was the judge. I manually equalized the SPL of all speakers. What follows are the judge's descriptions. He had no clue what he was listening to...I added the names of the speakers. My EP600 was off. All notes are shown in the order that speakers were played.

Round 1 - Diana Krall:Love Scenes: Track 2, Peel me a grape

Boses: lacking somehow. They lack high end detail. The whole frequency range is moved down and up somehow. Not centered...phasey. I interpret his third comment to mean no highs and no lows.

Sansuis: good centre image. Mids to highs better than Bose. I like these better than Bose.

Nuances: very detailed. Centre image is tightened tremendously compared to the Sansuis. Lows sound nice. Crisper, brighter and not as mellow as Bose or Sansui.

80s: Wow, the centre image is really tight now. She sounds really crisp and I can hear the raspiness in her voice. I like these.

The Boses and Sansuis sound different from the others. They're not as focused and detailed.

Round 2 - Diana Krall:Love Scenes: Track 11, My Love Is

For this round, I disqualified the Bose and Sansui with extreme prejudice . At this point, he still didn't know what he was listening to.

Nuance: I asked where he hears the bass. He said he wasn't sure.

80s: I hear the bass behind her and slightly to the left. So I asked how far behind. About 5 feet or so.

Nuance: I still can't localize the bass.

They're both pleasant to listen to and similar. The Nuances are not as warm but they sound more detailed. I suppose it's a matter of preference but I'd take the 80s.

Round 3: Echoes of Incas: Ventana Al So: Track 7, Ventana Al Sol

M80s: I'm getting birds around me, in front of me, behind me. There's one above me now. This is amazing (laughing). Do you have the surrounds on?

Nuances: the guitar is over-whelming the birds. With the 80s, the birds were there and balanced with the guitar. With these, I have to search for the birds. With the 80s, the birds were right there and there and there. The 80s are more crisp and forward. The 80s somehow sound better but the Nuances don't sound bad...just thinner...more recessed.

Round 4: Eric Clapton: Unplugged: Track 4, Tears in Heaven

M80s: Wow, right now I can place all the instruments. Is the sub on by the way?

Nuances: These lack body. They have detail but no body or warmth. I can still place the instruments but...I'm struggling. What happened to the bass?

I want to hear the 80s. They're more involving.

After we finished with the formal listening, I turned the 600 on and tweaked it to what we felt was optimum bass for use with the Nuances. No matter what we did, we couldn't substitute for the body and warmth of the 80s. We both agreed the bass from the 600 was very well blended. He wondered how he can get that blend with his sub.

I find his comment about the two US speakers sounding different than the Canucks very interesting. I wonder if this has to do with the voicing and design philosophy differences of the old vs. new generation.

We also returned to the Sansui and Bose in an attempt to give them more body. We found that by turning down the treble and increasing the bass, the Sansuis shaped up. I had to peg the bass and treble to maximum to get the Boses to sound somewhat balanced. But both of these old warriors had no chance against the new generation.

I was very surprised with the high sound quality of the Nuances. They were very articulate, detailed and airy but lacked the bass and warmth of the 80s. In my opinion they were head and shoulders above the M3s and M22s. The build quality was rock solid. However, they also cost him a grand!

In Mojo tradition, we decided to invert the Nuances on top of the 80s. The 80s are of course terrific, the Nuances are great and with the two Canucks, the sum was greater than each whole. It sounded absolutely stunning.

Finally we concluded by playing Clapton on all speakers (about 1.5 Ohms) at the same time with the Denon at -10. This represents about 18W/channel on my 80s so it's very loud. We listened to a whole song without issue. The sound was definitely full but not what I would call refined or articulate. Imaging was totally out the window. I was hoping my Denon would lay itself to rest but alas it survived. I guess no upgrade for me yet.

There you have it. Another great Sunday and yet another feather in the M80 architect's cap. My daughter made off with the camera but my buddy promised to take some pictures of the Sansuis and Nuances. I'll post them when I receive them.


House of the Rising Sone
Out in the mid or far field
Dedicated mid-woofers are over-rated
Re: M80/Nuance/Sansui/Bose...& another Frankenspeaker
Mojo #183101 11/12/07 03:31 AM
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Nice read. I like how you keep playing God.

Re: M80/Nuance/Sansui/Bose...& another Frankenspeaker
CV #183106 11/12/07 04:01 AM
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You mean the Frankenspeakers? I'm not sure if that's playing God or the devil \:\) ? Maybe they're one and the same.


House of the Rising Sone
Out in the mid or far field
Dedicated mid-woofers are over-rated
Re: M80/Nuance/Sansui/Bose...& another Frankenspeaker
Mojo #183109 11/12/07 04:09 AM
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Ha ha. Keep trying, though. I'm sure you'll find the perfect combination with just a little more abomination.

Re: M80/Nuance/Sansui/Bose...& another Frankenspeaker
Mojo #183137 11/12/07 10:06 AM
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connoisseur
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M80s rules!


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Re: M80/Nuance/Sansui/Bose...& another Frankenspeaker
Mojo #183140 11/12/07 10:45 AM
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old hand
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You mentioned that the Nuances are way better than the M3s and the M22s but cost a grand.

So are the Nuances worth the $700 difference to upgrade from the $320 M3s?

Re: M80/Nuance/Sansui/Bose...& another Frankenspeaker
aquashankar #183158 11/12/07 03:53 PM
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I knew someone would ask that question \:\) .

So here is the easy answer. If you are planning on paying a grand for speakers, why even consider the Nuances? Go straight to 80s.

Let's say for argument's sake you don't have the space for 80s because the wall that you want to set them against has a built-in entertainment unit so you are relegated to bookshelf speakers. In that case, I'd say a $1000 speaker is a waste of money because you'll end up butchering its sonic attributes by stifling it in a cabinet. So you may as well purchase something less expensive.

If I had the space for floor-standers but I had to make a life-long decision between the Nuances and the M3s or M22s only due to WAF say, I would take the Nuances without any hesitation whatsoever. An extra $700 amortized over my lifetime is a small price to pay for greatly improved sonic performance.

Does that answer your question?


House of the Rising Sone
Out in the mid or far field
Dedicated mid-woofers are over-rated
Re: M80/Nuance/Sansui/Bose...& another Frankenspeaker
EFalardeau #183159 11/12/07 03:58 PM
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It is indeed an incredible speaker system and we both should give thanks that we are so fortunate to soak in its sonic radiance, Eric.


House of the Rising Sone
Out in the mid or far field
Dedicated mid-woofers are over-rated
Re: M80/Nuance/Sansui/Bose...& another Frankenspeaker
Mojo #183161 11/12/07 04:04 PM
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connoisseur
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I do it everyday! I just finished a near-religious experience with them! Stravinsky's "Noces" on SACD is an explosion of clarity and presence on these babies!


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Re: M80/Nuance/Sansui/Bose...& another Frankenspeaker
EFalardeau #183164 11/12/07 04:09 PM
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\:D .


House of the Rising Sone
Out in the mid or far field
Dedicated mid-woofers are over-rated
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