Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater The dreaded Which Speakers...

My head hurts. I have been reading for days here and over at AVS. I think I want to go with Axiom.

The low down is this: dedicated HT is 21'x13' with 7'4'' ceiling. The plan is the Sanyo Z5 projector on a 108'' screen. The main purpose is movies and HD sports. I have not choosen a receiver yet.

I am leaning towards wall mounting the speakers for two reasons. The wife and the destructive two year old. So the in wall/on wall line is appealing, but will that be enough?

My budget is $2000. Any and all ideas are welcome. Thanks.

is the $2000 budget for speakers only or speakers and receiver?

speakers only. receiver has its own budget!!

You should be able to find a good system for that budget. I just ordered my axioms friday (epic 80/500 5.1). I auditioned them before I pulled the plug and was VERY impressed. Once you get an idea of what you want you could always check out the audition thread and see if anyone is in your area with axioms you can listen to.

I will let others chime in with more experience around here at this point. Many people have compared various axioms in an a/b setting so they may offer some suggestions.

If movies and sports are the main interest, wall-mounts are an acceptable option.

If you also plan on listening to a lot of music and are a discerning listener, wall-mounts won't give you the soundstage and imaging that floor-standers will.

yep, movies and sports will be my main interest. after a bit more reading and surfing and reading i have put a package together.

w150, W22s, QS4s, & EP175. i am leaning towards a higher end Denon for my receiver.

is this too much for my room or not enough? it is just over my budget, but very close.

what do you think?

Did you watch Alan's video on how to install the W22/W150 series? You may want to make sure you are comfortable with that.

^^^^ yes i did watch the video.

my basement is current bare bones. we are obtaining quotes to finish it now. once the dryway is up and i mock up the screen i may just have the contractor cut the bracket openings for me. either way, it should be easier to accomplish since it is unfinished.

later.

Excellent. I was just mentionning it because of my friends was interested until I made him realized he had to cut into his nice wood walls!

Apart from that, for my two cents, I shopped for a long time (18 months) and finally selected Axiom (high quality, reasonable price) and I would not change them! So, I strongly recommend them to you.

Aham,

If you want to get the most out of your money, I would suggest staying away from the in-wall series, and getting normal M22s with a mounting bracket ($40 more). This will save you money and you will get the same sound for less.

You're going to want to save as much money as possible if you want to get a good theatre sound in a room that big, you'll at least need an EP350v3 from Axiom.

I would suggest the following for your room and your $2000 budget (All from the Factory Outlet):

2 x M22s for your mains: $424 USD
1 x VP150 for your centre: $367 USD
2 x QS8s for your surrounds: $486 USD
1 x EP350v3 for your sub: $682 USD
3 x Axiom FMB for your 22s and 150: $120 USD

Your grand total before the 5% shipping discount is $2079 USD. After the 5% shipping discount you're sitting at a pretty $1975 USD. You have better surrounds and a better sub for your LFE.

This is the best way to spend your money IMHO, you get the QS8s for your bigger room, and the EP350v3 for your bigger room.


Alternative option for your centre channel:

If you would like another option for your centre channel you can go the route of 2 bookshelf M2s above and below your screen, this will also be cheaper than the VP150 by about $100 USD I think.

This is the setup that I have at my theatre and I love it:



With a 108" screen, I am not sure you'll have the room. I have a 92" screen and 7'9" ceiling height.

Edit again: Have you factored in all of your cables that you will need into your final price? I would suggest monoprice.com for all your video cable needs (HDMI and component runs to your projector) and bluejeanscable.com for your in-wall 12 guage speaker wire.

If you need help with planning out your wiring, just give me a pm.

^^^^ great info Hutzal. i was actually looking at your HT pics last night. very cool. great info on the speakers and definetly something for me to think about.

the $2k is just for speakers. wiring is seperate. i have been doing tons of research and have Monoprice & BlueJeansCable on my list.

these is a lot of info out there and somewhat confusing. maybe you could help me on the screen size. i cant figure out those projector calculators for the life of me.

i am looking at the sany z5 or maybe the new z2000. i want it ceiling mounted. the room is a blank slate currently. thanks.

I have the Z5 as well, what are you wanting to know? throw distance for a 108"?

^^^^ yes and could you elaborate as to why a 106"/108" screen might be to big for my room?

i guess my first concern is getting the prewire done right once the basement framing is up. so i need a general idea where to run the PJ wires. the calculators give out a lot of info and somewhat confuse me.

thanks.

I like Robb's suggestion but if you must have wall-mounts, I'd like to suggest that you also create jacks at the bottom of your wall in case you want to go with floor-standers later.

I didn't mean you didn't have the room for a 108" screen, I meant that you might not have room for dual centre channels (above and below).

I would suggest running wire to above the screen, and below the screen in case you want your VP150 above or below (as you don't know where you'll want it right now). Or have dual M2 centres.

If you want a 108" screen, according to the Calculator Pro at Projector Central for the Z4 (which will be the same as the Z5), they recommend mounting (the lens) from 10'10" to 12'10" to get good brightness on a 108" screen. However, you are able to mount as much as 21' away but your brightness will suffer.

If you can mount your projector (the lens) around 12' away from the screen, you will be good to go, and you will have good brightness for a 108" image.

How far away will you be seated? I sit around 10' from a 92" screen, I don't see any SDE at all. The Z5 is a good projector.

I think Robb (Hutzal) has it covered. Well done!

Wow.
You like the front row effect?

If it doesn't feel like Optimus Prime is about to step on you, then you are not at the movies.....

Well, to tell you the truth, My seats are in the optimal position in the room (I think 40% from the back wall of the total room length). And it came out to 10' or so. So I have the best sound and an awesome immersion in the film.

One problem that I didn't forsee is getting an Xbox360 and playing FPS'. I bought one last weekend for my birthday (with my b-day money) and I bought Call Of Duty 4 (which is a freakin' awesome game, better than Halo 3), and I get dizzy sometimes with the realistic running that they portray in that game.

Most of the time I am ok, and its pretty sweet mowing guys down with a sniper rifle on a 92" screen from 10 feet

To respond to your question, I hate the front row at movie theatres, my neck is always pointing straight up, thats no good, but with the screen at eye level, 10 feet from 92" isn't all that bad, I actually prefer the angle of viewing now.

That is interesting.
I would have thought with such a 'close' seating area and a large screen your neck would be sore from having to look left and right so much, as opposed to having to look up.

still in the planning stages, but we do have a contractor picked for the basement finish. with the screen size i am looking at it doesnt leave much space between the bottom of the screen and the floor. it will be about 22'' or less. this makes me think i would need to tilt it upwards just a bit, which i dont think is possible with the on-wall center.

i really like the clean look of the on-wall speakers. the other option is go with the m22s and regular center speakers, all mounted with the wall brackets?

this would allow me to tilt the center just a bit. how close to the wall are the speakers when mounted with wall brackets? the best option would be an acoustical screen but they are pricey and i aint a DIY kind of guy.

all this thinking about my HT is hurting my head!

later.

22" is enough for M22s all across the front, something else to think about.

alright we got some framing up and the on walls are not going to work. with the size screen i want they would be too close to the side walls.

at least with floor or bookshelf's on stands i can point them somewhat inward to the listening sweet spot.

so back to square one. well, not really, but close. i have a sub. spent $450 on an eD A3-300. now the i have to decide, floor or bookshelf with stands?

if the main purpose is movies will i be happy with the M22's as fronts? should i just pony up and get the 60s? what to do, what to do.

later.

If you for see music DVD's or just music at anytime I would go for the M60's. They are just fuller sounding with those 6 1/2" drivers. If no music then M22's as I had a hard time telling the difference when I had the M60's and M22's in my house while watching movies and A/Bing them.

Having said that, while at Mojo's today we were swapping between the M80s and M22s and after the initial and noticable swap, you start to think the M22s sound really good too.


I am not much help am I?

that sort of helped .

Personally I like the look of a floostander opposed to a bookshelf on a stand. Is that more of a help?

Another thing to consider if you only mount the projector at ~12' in your room, is a second row of seating.

Is it possible you will ever add a second row?

Ideally you want the projector mounted behind your seats; with the projector in front of your seats, I'm told, you can see the projector beam, which I would imagine could be quite distracting.

the budget says it should be the M22s with stands. but those floorstanders sure are pretty. if i went that route it would be the M50s.

there may be no defined winner, for me, until i place my order.

later.

I think you will be happy with whatever you get.

I am not missing any action with movies/video games with my M22 mains crossed over to my EP500, everything sounds glorious...don't fret about the tower speaker thing, M22s are an awesome speaker.

Take at look at this thread I started awhile back. Some good comments / opinions on the M22 vs. the M60.

i have not pulled the trigger on the speakers yet, but i did pull some 1000 feet of low voltage wires this weekend in my basement.

see some build pics if you like.

http://flickr.com/photos/aham23/sets/72157602808651410/

Man, that's a lot of work! If I ever move out to Long Island, NY, putting in a HT in the basement will be my #1 priority!

anyone have experience and/or pictures of the vp150 wall mounted? i would love to hear your thoughts and see some pics.

i think i would want to attach the mount to a stud, which would put the speaker slightly off center. however, the bracket moves left/right and up/down, so maybe i could account for this by adjusting the FMB?

it will be placed below the screen, but it looks like the space between the screen and floor will be only 17". i think wall mounting it would look better then it sitting on a tiny 10" stand.

much thanks.

you could mount it into the drywall with EZ Anchors.

That VP150 is heavy - I have my VP 150 mounted to a stud above my Sony SXRD. I actually used a crt-based mount (Sanus i believe) and placed the VP150 right on the base platter. It fits perfectly with the width of the speaker. I was pretty lucky with placement, as the stud was almost in the middle of the tv. I can take a pic later tonight.

I believe Mojo has it wall mounted:

Mojo Dojo Wall of Fame

Ahhh, the old pic with the Mojo toe in.

Mine are EZ Anchor'ed in the wall. No issues. I know because I bumped my head on it EVERY freaking time I go behind the TV to adjust something!!

First time posting pics- here goes nuthin'

Center channel wall mount:

Nice. Do the speakers match the furniture as well as it looks from the pictures?

Yes, they are an almost perfect match. I also have a similar colored coffee table and blinds to match.

The Axioms are cinnamon beech (custom vinyl)with burnt sienna grills. The variety of finishes Axiom offers is very impressive! I will try to post a nice set of pics in another thread (as soon as I clean the room...)

COD 4 is an amazing game...but i'm getting screen envy as I only play it on my 15" Macbook Pro

I'm planning on getting COD4 for ps3 eventually. I'm playing Oblivion on my 100" screen right now and it's really great, the immersion is perfect! When exploring some cave and an ogre attacks you from behind it gets downright scary! The sound is awesome on the axioms!

what wall mount are you using? it looks like you are using brackets and not the Axiom FMB. also, are those the M22's for your fronts? how do you like them.

thanks for the pics.

later.

You know....two words come to mind. Cable Management!

Maybe it's my TI background, but you *have* got to get those cables under control!

^ I'll take any ideas!

Actually there is no easy solution - many of the cables are a tight fit based on where the components are, and the fact that there is open space. Another option would be to drop the DVRs on top of the AVR - but I'm concerned about heat issues.

I'm also considering white oak tag about 2' by 3'....

^^^^ velcro is your friend. pull them to the side and secure them with it so they are out of the eyes sight.

later.

aham,

I am using a tv mount by Sanus VMTV - for tvs 13-27" weighing up to 100 lbs. Tilts, pans and swivels. I have the platter tilitng down towards the listening position.

I am using M22's for my mains. I have them 10 feet apart, with a slight toe-in from a listening distance of 10 feet. They are extremely accurate for both HT and music listening (stereo and hi-rez surround). On their own, they are a bit lacking in low bass, but I have them mated with an EP 500 sub, which blends together very well. They are capable of playing very loud and clean in my 15x25 room. For HT and music listening they are a hard combo to beat!

man i love me some nachosgrande, for real.

great info nachos. i will be mounting my center and think i will try the FMB and hope it holds ! plus it seems to keep the center pretty tight to the wall which is what i want.

i like the feedback on the m22s. my HT is three weeks from being finished, so i want to wait to purchase the speakers. i want to take advantage of that full 30 day trial.

this is causing me speaker pains. i do more research, read about Aperion, Swan, Ascends and so on. then i think the m22s will not look impressive enough sitting next to my 119" screen. i am sure they will sound impressive, but we do sometimes judge a book by its cover.

i am two weeks from pulling the speaker trigger. right now my radar is showing vp150, qs8s, m22s and now m60s. the other brand i am looking at is Aperion.

i already have a monster of a sub in the eD a3-300. at least that is final

later.

When I first looked at getting some quality speakers, I went on all the wesbites to get opinions, Aperion was one of my leading choices. However, look at the frequency charts - the Axioms are superior - hands down. They are very nice looking speakers as well. They are actually custom vinyl cinnamon tone, but many people think they are real wood.

What is the size of your room? What receiver will you be using? I went with the bookshelves due to my room setup which did not really accomodate floorstanders, but combined with the EP500, I feel that I have not compromised fidelity and visceral impact in any way. Dialing in the sub is important, though to make everything blend in a balanced manner.

If you are up in the air about which to choose, why not purchase a set of two of your final choices and demo them in your own room. Your ears will tell the difference.

Edit: Just read the beginning of this thread - looks like a 12x21 room, which is slightly smaller than my 15x25 room. I play the system pretty loud, and there is lots more headroom to go higher. Make sure you have a good quality amp/receiver and you'll be fine. As to whether you would go with an M22 or M60, I think the folks here have stated that the M22 is slightly more detailed than the M60, with the M60 providing more bass. However, Allan Lofft posted sometime this year that the M22 added a significant bass boost when wall mounted - so that might tip the scales in the M22 favor. I'm not familiar with your sub, which needs to be factored into the overall equation.

here is the front wall. as for my amp i have a denon 2808ci. it would be their third from top of the line (US model numbers). it should do the job fairly well.

i am not an audiophile by any means. picking up both sets would be smart, but once i pull the trigger i want to be done with the purchase. no returns or hassels, just set up and movie time.

i have read all the reviews and have no doubt that with the sub i have the M22's would be awesome. i would have them placed on stands as i dont like the look of them wall mounted.

there is this part of me that thinks they dont give off the "awesome" vibe when the lights are on and the movie is off. that whole book cover thing. i know of their awesomeness, but i surely want to impress my guest too.

sure, it may be silly, but it is what is. to me, floorstanders kinda of scream, "i am load, here me roar!" is that enough to justify $300 more if i go with Axiom or to justify jumping to Aperion?

that my friend is a question i must answer.

am i correct to assume the FMS24 stand will hold the M22 just fine?

later.

Yes, absolutely. The FMS24 will hold the M22 with no trouble, as will the FMS16.

it is official. well, as official as it can get. i am going to order the 2 M22s with stands, VP150 with FMB, and 2 QS8s. i already have my custom built eD A3-300 12" subwoofer.

i wont order until late next week though. this will allow me to clear my schedule to be home for the delievery. now i just need to avoid all speaker discussions and forums.

I have the same Axiom speakers as those you have ordered. I think you'll be very pleased with them. I certainly am.

if i go 7.1 is it ok to mount the rear wall QS8s about 4 inches higher then the sides? i ask as i have soffit issues on the side walls and poster box / wall shelf issues on the rear wall.

who the heck designed this room?

later.

That 4" in mounting height should make no difference in the sound.

done!!!

the last of my major HT purchases was the toughest. there are soooo many speakers and soooo many opinions out there :). i ended up back where i started some 3 months ago and it feels good. much thanks.

Items Purchased:
Description Colour Quantity Unit Price Price
Pair QS8 Surrounds Black Oak 1 540.00 540.00
Pair Millennia M22 Bookshelves Black Oak 1 470.00 470.00
Pair FMS16 Stands Black 1 196.00 196.00
VP150 Center Black Oak 1 408.00 408.00
Full Metal Bracket - Single Black 1 40.00 40.00

Subtotal: $1,654.00 USD
Home Theater Discount: $82.70 USD
Total Amount of this Purchase: $1,571.30 USD

Congratulations on your purchase aham23. I also thought the decision was difficult but found I the waiting for them to arrive was actually worse.

Congrats on the purchase of your speakers.

I found I felt relieved at having made the decision (this was just a few days ago). This feeling lasted for just about 24 hours. Now the wait has begun, and it's also unpleasant, but nothing like agonizing over which speakers, projector, amp, screen, etc. to buy. The wait is killing me, but at least now I know what I'm looking forward to.

Anticipation.

yes, the wait is not nice.

i really wanted to make the purchase so the speakers arrived Monday, but was to busy agonizing over what to get. anticipated delievery is this coming Wednesday.

i know signature is required, but if you miss the delievery attempt is it easy to reschedule? actually, at this point it would be best if i could just have them deliever the speakers Thursday (a day later then projected) as i will be home all day for my carpet install. is there a way to let them know this ahead of time? (the pain never ends )

this is funny, but i am already rethinking my AVR purchase. i picked up a Denon 2808CI back in November on a smoking deal from 6ave.com. however, i may have jumped the gun. three features of the 3808CI have me wanting more. 4 HDMI inputs, network cababilities for streaming music to it, and its awesome looking GUI.

could i possibly upgrade equipment before even taking the original out of the box?!@?!

clearly i have a sickness.

later.

If you are in Canada and waiting for Purolator, you just have to call them at the number they will leave with you and you can re-schedule a second attempt.

For any other delivery service, I do not know, but I'm pretty sure they can.

You have Upgradeititus and you can only treat the symptoms and it usually returns.

As an owner of the 3808 I would highly recommend the upgrade just for the network capability alone, there are a number of really good internet radio stations out here to broaden your listening perspective and the streaming is great. I have ripped my cds to flac onto a Network Attached Storage device and the Denon sees it on the network and automatically links up.

great. thanks.

i really pulled the trigger to early on the receiver. didnt get enough obsessive research done on it. the 3808CI is clearly the right AVR for me and my needs. at only $300 more it seems like a no brainer.

only issue is i have a new still in factory sealed box 2808CI that is way outside the 30 day return. a minor hassel to either eBay it or sell it locally i guess?

As it is still factory sealed you could always try to return it to the store just to see what they say.

Especially if it is something they can sell again easily, they might prefer to give great service than annoy a potential repeat business.

Speaking from experience working at a particular big box electronics store, they should take it back with no problems if you plan on buying the upgrade from the same store. If it were a big box store, just ask to speak to a manager if the customer service person gives you a hard time. All of the managers at my store would accept a return for an upgrade, especially if the box was never opened, because they will still sell that as new.

Sad thing is, they would all would do this because it made their sales numbers look that much better, and act like it was for customer service. At the end of the day, the report for what was sold that day and on their shift would be $300.00 higher than it would have otherwise been, so they take it.

Good luck.

there in lies the rub. i purchased it online from 6ave.com and they do not have any store fronts in the Chicago area. i think they are strictly east coast in the states. if this was best buy i am sure i would have no issues. i would also be paying about $500 more for the AVR.

not sure what i will do, but i will decide soon since i want to have the HT up and running a week from today!

Give them a call, you'll never know unless you try.

I'm guessing Steven at 6ave would use the same logic...

"I have to take this back, but then I make him spend $300 more... which results in higher commissions for me.... Yes!"

thanks for the tips. still undecided on the reciever.

as for the speakers can fedex toss this dog a bone? give me some love and update the shipping/tracking info. i will take anything. oh the wait............

it is like torture.............can they just update the stinking shipping information already!!

Feb 14, 2008 9:06 PM

Package data transmitted to FedEx

DWIGHT, ON

oh axiom speakers how i long for the. i hope you enjoyed your overnite stay in ohio.

as for you space, it is coming along, and should be ready for you this friday.





later.

NICE

Lookin good.

Feb 20, 2008, 7:46 AM, On FedEx vehicle for delivery.

Dude, clean your camera lens or are those orbs. Looking good though...

The nicest words before the doorbell rings!

Looks like he will be calling in sick today.

cough, cough.........my head and throat suddenly hurt! it must be the rarest of rare sicknesses, the Axiom Flu.

Axiom sells Magic Chef? Noone told me!

Great! Be sick and surround yourself with high-gloss cardboard (only plug-in the high-gloss bit to your receiver and keep the cardboard all over the place!).

Re: the Orbs....
I just assumed he had disco lighting happening.

logically, i have a disco themed home theater. you dont?

didnt get a chance to open up an play with the speakers yesterday. had to re paint some trim in preparation for the carpet being installed today.

while they are putting that in i will be busting out those speakers and getting ready to load the room!

later.