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M22's came today! ...my inital review
#183953 11/16/07 06:24 AM
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Ah, what a relief, I finally unpacked the speakers and checked for blemishes. If I stare hard enough I'll see one, and then it disappears when I blink. So I found one blemish on the top edge and it can't be seen at a distance. With scratches like this I recommend a brown Crayola watercolor fine tip marker to touch up such blemishes. I've even seen marker kits in different shades of wood for such tasks at the hardware store. But its not neccessary at this level.
My system consists of a Pioneer VSX-515, with standard digital connection from a cable box and no frills dvd player. The channel power is 110 watts x 6 channels at 0.9% THD. Its a sub $200 receiver, but has standard options and bass management. I also have 12 gauge wire to the M22's which are my mains, and no center channel. I kept 2 cubes from my Cambridge Soundworks Ensemble IV as rears. I also have a Infinity PS-10, for a subwoofer.
My previous system and my best, was a NAD T761, with Polk R30's all the way around.
Prior to that I had a low end Onkyo receiver, with a Bose Acoustimass6. Before that was I lived with my sister who had a JBL bookshelf setup with a Denon receiver.

Playing the Axioms in stereo was my first item, I wanted to hear what it has to offer just for the pair. I will confirm that a sub is necessary. For the range you get from the M22, the sub completes it.
The first thing I played was Jack Johnson, Sing along (I have a kid). The clarity of the guitar and drums was extremely noticeable. I was impressed right way. Vocals had no problem coming across with the music. After playing with the crossover at my setting options, 50, 80, 100, 150, 200; 80hz was the best option in my environment. The full range setting plus the sub seemed to muddle the bass at times. Separating the frequency cleaned it up. One note on the speaker height. I got Sanus basic 16 inch stands and the tweeter height was just below my ear level. I was worried about it not being tall enough for music and standing room environments but the soundstage filled the room just fine from any position.
I watched an episode of Weeds, and the first thing I noticed is that I was listening at 15 db's lower than I normally do. These speakers really play louder than my CS, in fact I can lower the volume to -70 on my receiver and hear the vocals on the cable tv just fine. I wasn't grabbing the remote to adjust the volume as I did with the CS. The CS is a great speaker but the cubes I had only was able to play at certain levels, These M22's can keep its consistency at clarity and crispness at any volume levels. I havent cranked it up yet, but I took Friday off to really put it though some testing.
Now my previous systems were good, but they always left something to be desired, I got tired of the Bose real quick in the terms of sound as well as the Polks. I noticed it was the speaker that made the difference, but its really the weakest link that does it in. I have a buddy who bought a pair of Sony floor standings with real good specs going up to 50khz. But it was hooked up to a RCA receiver, and I know It wouldn't be a fair judgment against the speaker. Nevertheless, it had to be played loud to be experience and even that was not impressive.
Movies were really clear especially voices, I placed the crossover at 100hz and that brought voices out more. I also have dialog enhancement option on my receiver and the range is quite noticeable not whereas it wasn't before.
i definitely want to get a new receiver, but feel a vp100 is the first item of business, and I can live with the CS cube surrounds for now.
Overall it is an excellent speaker, better than what you'll find at the retailers for the money.

Re: M22's came today! ...my inital review
rome2000 #183959 11/16/07 03:45 PM
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I would recommend purchasing speakers before a new receiver as well. That pioneer that you have will have no problems driving 8ohm loads.

I am really happy you like the M22s!


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Re: M22's came today! ...my inital review
Hutzal #183977 11/16/07 05:34 PM
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Glad to hear you enjoy your M22's. I too am waiting for some funds to get a VP150 to go along with my 22's and Pioneer VSX1015 amp. But I think I need some M3's for another room first.

If you like the pioneer just take a look at stepping up to maybe a 1017 or there always seems to be deals on stores selling off last seasons Elite models.

Re: M22's came today! ...my inital review
ctown #183996 11/16/07 06:06 PM
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Glad you are enjoying the M22s\:\)

I would be interested in hearing your thoughts on the M22s running without the sub and just bumping up the bass a db or 2 or 3.


Jason
M80 v2
VP160 v3
QS8 v2
PB13 Ultra
Denon 3808
Samsung 85" Q70
Re: M22's came today! ...my inital review
jakewash #184232 11/16/07 08:14 PM
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Good question, I tried it and set to Stereo, and maxed out my bass to +6, and it filled in the missing lower end.

I sampled songs from different genres:
70's: Heatwave-The Groove Line
R&B:Nicole Scherzinger-Baby Love
HipHop:Gorilla Zoe-Hood Figga
80's:Milli Vanilli-Blame it on the Rain
80's:Lionel Richie, All Night Long
Reggae: Junior Marvin-Just my Imagination
...and a quite bit more.

The music was really bright in stereo, and I noticed my treble setting was turned up all the way from my last speakers, so I quickly brought that down to level 0 which fixed that. I began sampling with and without the sub(Infinity PS-10) throughout the track. I set my subwoofer line level to the halfway mark. I don't like overemphasizing the bass (lower frequencies). I was surprised at the difference, rather no difference. The M22's actually had the same bass output at my sub setting. The infinity isn't bad; it has a quite impressive Darla tap. Every bit of music I threw at it, it handled it with tight bass which I preferred over the Subs. Now when I turned up the sub to 75% on the manual line level. It then became clear, it was the Sub that won. But that is if you like bass. I can recommend the M22's as stand-alone if you have an amp with bass adjustments. Now the only music genre where it failed is hip hop, but everything else it handled beautifully. Hip Hop is were I would bump up the bass more than normal out of personal preference. Movies is the other which a sub would do better.

Re: M22's came today! ...my inital review
rome2000 #184238 11/16/07 08:50 PM
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I have found that the M22s are too linear and it is the recordings that are to blame for the lack of bass. The 22s reproduce the songs exactly as they were recorded and unfortunately there are a lot of cds out there poorly recorded.

I think we have all gotten used to hearing bloated mid bass due to poor speakers or ones that accentuate the bass and cd set up for radio play, so when you get to hear the recordings as is, it usually isn't upto expectations.


Jason
M80 v2
VP160 v3
QS8 v2
PB13 Ultra
Denon 3808
Samsung 85" Q70
Re: M22's came today! ...my inital review
jakewash #184241 11/16/07 09:00 PM
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Many have noted how the M22s lack bass. This is not due solely to recording quality.
If anything, many recordings bump up the bass and treble areas to compensate for typically poor quality equipment on which such new age, hip hoppy teen bopping music is played.
The M22s start their frequency downturn just after 90Hz. I'm never surprised by the opinion that the M22 sounds thin in this regard.

I've even blended the subwoofer crossover with my M60s around the 50Hz mark.


"Those who preach the myths of audio are ignorant of truth."
Re: M22's came today! ...my inital review
chesseroo #184243 11/16/07 09:13 PM
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The M3 is not regarded as lacking bass and it starts its downturn even earlier(barely). The drop in the graph after 100hz give it that feeling of more bass when in fact it is less than the M22. It is the way each presents the entire spectrum that gives them their sound and the M22 just has a more linear reproduction.

I do agree though, with out that lower range of the floorstanders the M22 does sound thin, clear but thin.


Jason
M80 v2
VP160 v3
QS8 v2
PB13 Ultra
Denon 3808
Samsung 85" Q70
Re: M22's came today! ...my inital review
jakewash #184384 11/18/07 02:50 AM
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Yes, my own listening and measurements confirm that the M22s have no "thinness" in the bass area. The response in-room is very strong down to about 60Hz, slightly lower around 50Hz and much weaker, but still usable down to about 40Hz. This of course means when used without a sub and without any boost from tone controls. Keep in mind that published frequency response graphs show anechoic rather than in-room results and that even as to that Ian has pointed out that the chamber isn't accurate below about 85Hz.

A good sub fills out the bottom 1-2 octaves and should always be used when available, but for most music the M22 bass is fine without it. Boosting the bass with the tone control wouldn't be a good general practice, since this actually has a maximum effect in the upper bass area and with good material adds a false "warmth" or "fullness" which some may find pleasant, but nevertheless is inaccurate. Some speakers have a somewhat similar upper bass prominance built in to give the illusion of more bass extension. With material that is bass shy the tone control can be used to reach a more nearly balanced overall result, but should be turned off when well-recorded material is being played.


-----------------------------------

Enjoy the music, not the equipment.



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