Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater Another TV thread (a.k.a. spend my money)

To complete a dramatic rearrangement to our living room -- basically a 90-degree twist -- I now find myself in need of a 50" (maximum) television. This is a hard limitation due to a maximum width of 48" available in the spot designated for it.

Before my wife had the genius idea of flipping the room arrangement around, I was looking at wall-mounting a 42" (or so) LCD about 9' from the couch. Now, the couch-to-TV distance will be about 15'. I realize that at that distance a 50" screen isn't much, but for critical watching, I can always either move the couch forward or plop a couple chairs down closer to the screen.

My requirements:

• Any format other than plasma -- energy requirements are too much for available circuit
• Maximum cabinet width of 47.75" -- unmovable cabinets to either side
• Economical -- I don't need the latest greatest (~$1000 max budget), but I like semi-future proofed purchases

I have always liked the Samsung RP HD DLP sets and that's what I'm focusing most on at the moment.

Feel free to steer me in any direction you like.

Peter, if you go with a Samsung DLP, you'll want to keep it at least 3 or 4 inches from the wall behind the set so the fan can dissipate the heat adequately. The 50" Samsungs range in depth from 10.6" (HL-T5076), to 15.1" (HL-T5055). At 13.4" are the HL-T5089, HL-T5087, and HL-T5075. So you can figure that your screen will be roughly 18" to 24", give or take, closer to the seating than the wall. That would put your seating distance at about 13 feet. All the 50" Samsung DLP TVs are around 45" wide.

According to this HDTV Widescreen Seating Distance Chart, the optimum seating distance from a 50" 1080p set is around 6.5 feet, and from a 50" 720p it's around 9.8 feet. So, at 13 feet you wouldn't be able to realize all the resolution a 1080p set can offer. Thus, a 720p set would be just fine and would save you some dough.

You can find the 720p HL-T5075 at BestBuy, ON SALE right now, for $899 (regularly $1200), at at Circuit City for the same price. Interestingly that's the best price I can find with a cursory search. The next best I can find is $999 at Vann's.com. The 1080p Samsung DLPs (5076, 5087, 5089) are gonna cost more, of course. The best price I can find for the next step up, the 1080p 5076, is around $1200 to $1300. Of course a 1080p set is going to be more "future proof" than a 720p.

I've been really very happy with my 1080p Samsung HDTV. Yes, I spent an extra $450 to have it professionally calibrated, and I consider it money well spent. But, that doesn't mean you would have to do the same.

You might do some searches for 50" LCD sets. You might find one or two 50" models on sale near your budget.

Good luck and good hunting.

I love my Samsung HL-S5687. The 5087 is only 45.4” wide, 32.3” high and 15.6” deep so it should fit but I’m not sure you can find it for $1,000 USD without getting one that’s refurbished.

Just one thing to note about the Samsung DLPs is a problem that some models have with their light engine. I know that the “R” and “S” series suffer from this, other models may also. Mine’s been fine but it did happen to a friend.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=758625

I have a 50" lcd RP and I sit about 11.5 feet away. I would not want to sit any closer, or have a larger tv at my distance.

I sit 12' away from a 41" X 96" screen. I love it....

If I were to steer you at all, I'd suggest you find a display that will accept 1080P/24. There is a difference between a poorly scaled 1080P/60 image and native 1080P/24 off HD/BR disks. I’ve done too many back to back tests for anyone to ever convince me otherwise.

Thanks Jack. The 15' distance I measured was from eyeballs on the couch to the front of the shelf on which the TV will go, and I'll have plenty of clearance behind for heat dissipation.

I had already figured 1080p would be overkill for my distance so I'm primarily focusing on 720p sets -- unless I get a wild hair and up the budget at the last minute....

mdrew,
My sources are currently all SD, to be upgraded slowly, most likely one at a time. I sold my 32" CRT Sony in March or April and have been making do with a 13" TV/VCR (mostly for the kids) since then. Most of my watching has been on the laptop.

Any TV I buy will be a vast improvement over the current situation.

Ah...!!! I see....

Ya, you'll be happy with whatever you get. Just don't let them eat you and have fun shopping.

Anyone have any opinions on Sony Bravia LCD RPTVs? They were introduced earlier this year. Best Buy is having a two-day online-only sale starting tomorrow and I can get a 50" Sony Bravia (KDF-50E3000) 1080p (even accepts 1080p/24) RPTV for $1200 and pick it up at a store in town.

Hmmm. Amazon has it for $20 less with free shipping.

Peter, I don't have much experience with RPTVs, but I've owned a couple of Sony TVs and felt they offer very good pictures. Yes, they are the evil empire, and, yes, they are more expensive than other similar TVs, but they've always looked better to my eyes.

Seems like a lot of sales going on right now. Almost feel pressured to make a decision, huh?

Have you gone to the store to see the KDF-50E3000?


Just buy it and save the receipt.

pmbuko, I have the sony Grand WEGA 50" LCD RP 720p/1080i set (KDF-E50a10)and I absolutely love it. I upgraded up from something similar to what you have (19" magnavox aprox 10 yrs old), so of course it was a huge leap.

I can't speak directly about the bravia, but I will tell you that I have had my sony lcd rp tv for about 15 months and have not had a single problem with it.

The only thing to keep in mind, is that at some point you will have to buy a bulb replacement for the lcd rp tv's, maybe after 2-3 years depending on how often your tv is on. I have had my tv for 15 months and no signs of bulb dimming here. Also, I paid about $1500 for my tv when i bought it; at the time MSRP was like $2200 (It was being replaced with a new model so I got a heck of a deal),

Amazing at how much TV prices have gone down. 1080p sets were like $4,000 when I was shopping.

Peter, I liked how the JVC and Sony sets looked better than DLP's. YMMV.

I am really happy with the value and performance of the JVC set I got.

I have heard bad things about the super-skinny RPTV's.

Vann's often has excellent values on TV's.

Peter, I hesitated to reply since my first suggestion was going to be to convince Jessica to rotate the arrangement an additional 270 degrees, but decided that she wouldn't have been amused.

My next thought was to suggest one of the flat panel LCDs because of greater reliability than RPTVs, among other factors. Your budget limit stopped me on that. If you could bump it up a bit though, you could consider at least one of the 46-47" models, such as the Sony KDL-46S3000.

Thanks John. Jessica got a laugh out of your "solution," but points out that you haven't seen the wonders of our new arrangement (which is in Phase I). I'll keep LCDs in mind. Not having to replace bulbs is attractive.

Peter and Jessica Rabbit?

Nope. We only have two kids.

All right, then.

I was of the impression that the new energy star rated Panasonic Plasma's were very similar LCD's of the same size and while LCD consumption is fixed, the requirements of a plasma vary with the type of scenes portrayed.

Go as big as you can. We sit 14 ft away from a 61" and my wife even says we should have got the 70" RPTV.

If you are limited to 50", I would do more research on Plasma and LCD, also if you are in a recessed space be sure to check what the suggested clearances are, as RPTV's generally require 3-4 inches of clearance to allow for adequate ventilation and cooling of the bulb.

I own a JVC RPTV, but really prefer the pic and lack of motion blurring of plasma vs. LCD...but thats only because I watch a lot of sports programming.

I can vouch for the blurring in sports, even with the new 120hz models. I can get it to lessen but it is still there. No issues on any of the plasmas I have looked at and with Plasmas coming with antiglare screens now, I am thinking Plasma for my HT room.

The motion blur really odes not effect me much or at all on my tv.

I think it impacts some and not others, kind of like the 'rainbow effect' with DLP sets.

CTown:
I think it's only fair to let you know that I'm in love with your wife.

Peter, I was about to suggest the Sony A3000 50" before I even saw your question about the rptv's.

I see you said your max budget is $1000?!?!?! is this right?

I have the sony a2000 50" and the picture is phenomenal! RPTVs are said to deliver some of the best pictures around. The nice thing about the a3000 is the super slim bezel which should allow for getting the tv in your space. I would highly recommend checking one of these out:

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=8451659&type=product&id=1183767274513

killer price too at $1800

I've started to backpedal on the TV thing after realizing I won't have a good place to put my M22s in the new arrangement since stands are completely out of the question due to kids. The only place I can think of to put them is mounted on the side walls facing the couch.

I drew up a bare bones version of the current and possible future arrangement in SketchUp. The left armoire is currently used for toy/supply/craft storage and the right armoire is my computer desk. The shelf in between currently holds a rat cage and various other items. It's about 28" deep and 48" wide. The space below the shelf has some mirrors and abacuses mounted to the walls and armoire sides and is an inviolable play area for the kids.

Current:


Possible:


I just had a vision, but I'm not sure how it would sound. What if, instead of wall-mounting the M22s to the sides of the room, I installed W22s into the armoire doors? Hmmmm.... I think the M22s are just slightly too tall to fit on top of them.

One more vital piece of information. The main reason we're rearranging isn't for HT reasons, but for increasing the seating possibilities in the room. We hardly ever have people over because our house is so bad for entertaining. Changing the layout of the room should help immensely in that area.

You could take the doors off the armoirs and install thin curtains. This would enable you to keep the curtains closed and hear the audio, without scrificing aesthetics.

Where does the projector mount?

I know horizontal mounting is a no-no for imaging, but in a pinch:


Oh, and GO Patriots!

Time to trade in the M22s for M3s or 2 VP150s to make the TV between the armoires work. I liked your first picture with the armoires off to the side, certainly eliminates the speaker issues.

Peter, I think the more obvious solution is that you need a new house entirely.

Thanks, Chess. There's no need to inflame my serious case of firsthouseitis.

We have revisited the arrangement and are now focusing on tweaking the current arrangement. If only both of us weren't so averse to spending on credit. Life would be so much -- debtier.

Fair enough, but she still wants our ensuite renovated before more A/V gear.

Still pretty cool that she tells buddy's wives to "go with the larger TV", "don't get a HD receiver unless it has a DVR"....just wait until she sees what the new Harmony remote is like..

Oh...I forgot....she likes NFL football too.

Nice looking room. With 50"set maximum and if you could control lighting I would definately go with Plasma. I own a RPTV and love it, but at some point I know I will have to replace very expensive lamps on it. Also, I am diligent about not turning it on and off frequently to allow for proper cooling of the lamp. I'm also sure that the fan in it will probably not last the 60,000 hours that LCD and Plasma are rated for.

Plasma has a faster response time than most LCD, so if you watch sports and other fast moving scenes, or are an avid gamer, you will not notice any motion blurring. Then Plasma should be your focus.

LCD is slightly less costly to operate generally, but not significantly. Its main advantages are lack of glare from a protective screen and reduced risk of image retention. If not a big sports viewer and you cant control the lighting in the room, then LCD is what you should look at.

main advantage of RPTV is cost per square inch, and that isnt a big factor in a 50" TV. They are not much cheaper than flat panels in that size, unless you look at DLP or LCDRP. The LCOS sets from JVC or Sony are usually a bit more expensive.

Personally, I would go with a flat panel in that space and mount the 22's on the walls and get a VP150 for up top. If your motivation is related to space for entertaining, I have to admit that a nice flat panel looks nicer than my RPTV.

BTW, I'm not a Patriot hater, but constantly going for it on 4th and a couple yards in blowouts seems classless. I'm glad that I never had to watch Ron Meyer, Raymond Berry, Steve Grogan, Irving Friar or Moises Tuiasisopo ever be involved with that.

The TV model I used came with the Patriot scene already on it. I actually don't watch football unless there's already someone else watching it... And in this house, that's never.

Pete - take another look at the credit stance. This is a purchase that will be the centerpiece of your HT and something you will live with for quite awhile. Worst thing is to be almost happy with what you get.

If DLP, Samsung. If LCD, Sharp and Sony. Try online at Visual Apex, NewEgg and Cleveland Plasma. They get high marks for Customer Service and their prices are excellent.

It's too bad you have eliminated plasma from the equation. This one would be perfect for the wall mount approach and is the right price/size. Having 42" and 58" Panny plasmas, I'm pretty happy with them.

I knew I could count on you, Ray.

Peter, you must get over your plasma aversion. And what exactly is the point of owning a television if you never watch football?

ctown, I think you mean Lofa's dad Mosi Tatupu rather than Moises Tuiasisopo.

Sorry, I was having a Samoa player meld between Manu Tuiasasopo and Mosi Tatupu. Thanks for the pickup on that.

Peter, why not put the armoires behind the couch, and get a 65" Plasma, mount your M22s on the wall?

The room just isn't that big, Hutz. Or at least it didn't seem that way when I saw it.

Yeah. It's only 11x19. And it has to function as a living room, family room, play room, etc. If only I had a basement!

your Sony Wega 50A10 is a LCDRP set not direct view LCD. Rear projection sets normally have a similar response time to Plasma (4ms)so you will not notice motion blurring like you would on a LCD with an 8ms response time or greater.

The 50A10 is one of my favorite LCDRP as it shows minimal screen door effect and actually can resolve every line of a 720P test pattern. Gary Merson did a test on several sets a few years back and most notably the Sony A20 series and the Sharp LC45GD5U which did not resolve all 1080 lines as advertised.

I found it a bit shocking that Sharp performed that way, but as some said to me, they make the best LCD panels, but not nesessarily the best videoprocessors.

Here are a couple links to the Merson articles.

2007 HDTV resolution article

Are you getting all the resolution you expected ? round 1

Are you getting all the HDTV resolution you expected? round 2

Are you getting all the HDTV resolution you expected? Round 3

No chance in considering my advice on replacing the doors with curtains? A friend of mine did this and it turned out AMAZING!!!

It doesn't have to look like you might envision it. In fact, turn the idea over to the wife and let her go with it...chances are that it will allow for a happier wife if she has more involvement with the project.

And lest we forget - a happier wife also means a MUCH happier husband.