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#187118 - 12/08/07 11:32 AM dsp or no dsp?
Klugger Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 11/28/07
Posts: 38
Loc: Crossfield AB Canada
Is it just me or does music sound better on a sub without dsp?
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ONKYO TS-SR875, M22, QS8, VP150, EP350v3, LC-52D92U,HD-A30

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#187121 - 12/08/07 11:54 AM Re: dsp or no dsp? [Re: Klugger]
alan Offline

connoisseur

Registered: 01/29/02
Posts: 3256
Loc: Toronto/New York/parry Sound
Hi Klugger,

It depends on how well the DSP is implemented. If it's an Axiom DSP sub (EP400, 500, 600), music is excellent and so are movie low-frequency effects.

It may be just you or your room or the subwoofer placement if you changed it at all. However, if it's another brand of DSP subwoofer, it could be less-than-ideal implementation of a DSP algorithm.

In double-blind listening tests I've conducted with Axiom's DSP subs and subs from other manufacturers, the Axioms are more linear and consistent as the deep bass frequencies get deeper. I've never detected any difference in "musicality" of our DSP subs and non-DSP subs, unless you count deeper smoother bass from the DSP subs as being more musical.

Regards,
Alan
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Alan Lofft,
Axiom Resident Expert (Retired)

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#187123 - 12/08/07 12:39 PM Re: dsp or no dsp? [Re: alan]
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 18044
Loc: NoVA
Or, it could be a troll!
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I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!

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#187129 - 12/08/07 01:12 PM Re: dsp or no dsp? [Re: Ken.C]
MarkSJohnson Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 11437
Loc: Central NH
 Originally Posted By: kcarlile
Or, it could be a troll!

That was my thought as well.
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::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::

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#187137 - 12/08/07 03:04 PM Re: dsp or no dsp? [Re: MarkSJohnson]
doormat Offline
devotee

Registered: 10/28/07
Posts: 395
Loc: Cold Lake, AB
Why does every comment that goes against the grain automatically a troll? I realize that it's from a first time poster, but I have also been wondering what is so all fired important about this mystical DSP algoritm with which we can no longer live without? Now, I haven't really done a whole lotta research into it, but further digitization can't always be the answer can it? Sound is still analog.


Besides, they just shipped my non-DSP EP350.
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M80s/VP160/QS8s/EP350; M22s; M3s.

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#187138 - 12/08/07 03:10 PM Re: dsp or no dsp? [Re: doormat]
CV Offline
Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club
shareholder in the making

Registered: 07/20/06
Posts: 11675
Loc: Richland, WA, USA
I think the problem with this post is that it's trying to be dismissive of all DSP implementations without any reasoning to back it up. I'm sure there's a wide variation in DSP effectiveness.

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#187140 - 12/08/07 03:32 PM Re: dsp or no dsp? [Re: CV]
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 18044
Loc: NoVA
The fact it's a first time poster who posts one thing--a potentially inflammatory, generalized statement. Doesn't introduce himself, and has nothing in his profile. Makes me kind of suspicious.
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I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!

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#187142 - 12/08/07 04:02 PM Re: dsp or no dsp? [Re: doormat]
RickF Offline
axiomite

Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 5210
Loc: Vero Beach, Florida
 Originally Posted By: doormat
Why does every comment that goes against the grain automatically a troll? I realize that it's from a first time poster, but I have also been wondering what is so all fired important about this mystical DSP algoritm with which we can no longer live without? Now, I haven't really done a whole lotta research into it, but further digitization can't always be the answer can it? Sound is still analog.


Besides, they just shipped my non-DSP EP350.



Troll.

\:D \:D \:D
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Rick
Our Room

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#187143 - 12/08/07 04:36 PM Re: dsp or no dsp? [Re: Ken.C]
doormat Offline
devotee

Registered: 10/28/07
Posts: 395
Loc: Cold Lake, AB
Not saying the post isn't trolling, but just to hijack this thread into a discussion of DSP, what exactly does the DSP offer in standard usage? Not hacking on it, just have never heard two subs comparatively (other than my good PDR10 vs my crappy RCA 8").

I've read Alan's article ( http://www.axiomaudio.com/digitalsubwoofer.html ) and from what I gather, "It automatically corrects any slight deviations of the big woofer away from the design goal, and it also prevents the subwoofer amplifier from exceeding its output limits and going into distortion." So we get a bit of correction and a limiter (you can crank it to 11 if you like, but it's still only playing at 10 Yeah, yeah, I know, headroom). I can certainly see a use for that but is it $400 better? How much benefit does it entail on a medium sized room at non-eviction levels? As for correction, how much deviation is there in well designed subs anyway?
_________________________
M80s/VP160/QS8s/EP350; M22s; M3s.

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#187145 - 12/08/07 04:47 PM Re: dsp or no dsp? [Re: doormat]
doormat Offline
devotee

Registered: 10/28/07
Posts: 395
Loc: Cold Lake, AB
And for the record I have noted my lack of rationality in being able to easily justify spending $650 on a sub I don't need but not $1050 for a better sub I don't need.
_________________________
M80s/VP160/QS8s/EP350; M22s; M3s.

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