Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Stereo CD player vs DVD player

i was wondering if there is any difference in fidelity and signal quality between a dedicated CD player, and a DVD player which plays MP3s. would there be an audible difference between the 2?

thanks!!
slack

Slack, combination CD/DVD players have dual lasers, operating at about 780nm(nanometers, billionths of a meter)for CDs and about 650nm for DVDs. So, there's no compromise involved; each wavelength is optimum for playing the disc in question. At least as far as sound quality goes there's no reason to buy separate players.

In theory at least, how about the difference between a >10 year old 5 CD player with analog audio connection vs. playing CDs on a new Panasonic DVD player with a digital audio? My perception is that there is a definite difference in sound quality in the latter. Would buying a higher quality CD player with a digital out make a big difference as well?

mark

I actually prefer using analog out on my cd player

Mark,

Semi_On will jump in here telling you that, as far as the digital transport is concerned, a $50 CD Walkman is just as good as $5000 Wadia. Same thing applies to dedicated CD player vs. DVD player -- there is ZERO difference in the quality of digital readouts.

Now, there may be audible sonic differences among D/A converters. In general, more than 10-15 year old ones are likely to be audibly inferior. People have "passed" double blind tests between even less than 5-year-old players because of DAC quality differences. There are still many things to improve when it comes to DACs, although the differences have become very, very subtle.

Hi Sushi;

Whats you opinion on those external DACs that upsample to 96 or 192?
Will it improve on the sound of my old Marantz CD63 Special Edition CD player?

Saturn,

Entirely depends on the DACs the Marantz uses. I would first identify the DAC chips in your Marantz (you can most likely find it out somewhere on the web, or just open up the case!), and go from there. Incidentally, those upsampling DACs are nothing special these days. Your Marantz may be old, but your receiver may well already have them inside; I know my Elite receiver uses the Burr-Brown 192/24 DACs -- no slouch at all!

"Slack, combination CD/DVD players have dual lasers, operating at about 780nm(nanometers, billionths of a meter)for CDs and about 650nm for DVDs. So, there's no compromise involved; each wavelength is optimum for playing the disc in question. At least as far as sound quality goes there's no reason to buy separate players."

Sort of like saying if two turntables have the exact same size needle, they'll sound the same. This is a truly one-dimensional analysis of the factors bearing on the sound characteristics of CD/DVD players. Sort of solves the problem of many variables by imposing a method which can only result in an absurd over-simplification. Treats variables like Cinderella's sisters treated their toes. GIGO.

The biggest difference you'll find between CD players is the DACs. DAC technology has improved a lot since the introduction of the CD, so cheap stuff today will probably sound better than cheap stuff of ten years ago.

Nevertheless, an inexpensive DVD player will have very compromised DACs compared to a dedicated CD player, because there is so much more circuitry to put in. In my thread 'M22's: Impressively Neutral," I commented on how much more resolution was in my Yamaha 775 CD changer than in my Panasonic RP-82 DVD player. So in my opinion, unless you have a really nice DVD player, particularly a high-end Denon, I don't think you're going to get close to match the sound quality from a good dedicated CD player.

Using a digital connection simply means you use the DACs in the receiver instead of the DVD or CD player. Usually a receiver will have better DACs than a DVD player, but it's still not as good as a dedicated CD player.

There are differences in digital transports, though I have never done a comparison in this realm, and they are probably pretty subtle. The best quantitative reason I've heard is that word-clock jitter is introduced at the source; this basically means that ones and zeroes can occasionally be flip flopped because the clock is out of synch with the data signal.

-Cooper

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Nevertheless, an inexpensive DVD player will have very compromised DACs compared to a dedicated CD player, because there is so much more circuitry to put in.

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Cooper, I would never make such a blanket statement. It really depends on each brand/model; until you find out exactly which DAC chips are used in each gear, you cannot even start any arguments. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if a Panasonic DVD player uses better DAC chips than, say, a nice NAD CD player.

And I cannot stress this enough: Some smaller, niche-market, "audiophile" brands continue to use outdated (sometimes by as much as 3 years) DAC/ADC/DSP chips, apparently because they don't have enough R&D resources to quickly adopt the latest-and-greatest-but-no-pricier chips. In fact, so-called "mass-market" brands, which every audiophile hates, are much better in catching up with the rapidly progressing digital technologies. Sorry, but this is the sad reality.

In reply to:

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There are differences in digital transports, though I have never done a comparison in this realm, and they are probably pretty subtle. The best quantitative reason I've heard is that word-clock jitter is introduced at the source; this basically means that ones and zeroes can occasionally be flip flopped because the clock is out of synch with the data signal.

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Unfortunately, this is one of those typical marketing BS. Semi_On, who makes ultra-high-precision clocking chips as day job, will tell you why this just doesn't happen. Clock jitters introduced at the digital readout, if any, are COMPLETELY absorbed by the data buffer upstream of DAC (now, jitter introduced within the DAC circuitry is a totally different matter). Digital readouts are IDENTICAL from $50 and $5000 transports, period, unless one is overtly mis-tracking the platter -- and in my experience, mis-tracking tolerance is in fact often better in cheaper, mass-produced transports.