Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Technical Questions HTR-6190 support 4 ohm speakers

Hi all, I am trying to look every where as I have lost my manual. I can't seem to find it on Yamaha's website either. I am planning on the purchase of the M80's. So I want to know if my receiver supports 4ohm speakers?

The manual for the HTR6090( I would think the 6190 is nearly the same ) has a spec:

• Dynamic Power (IHF)8/6/4/2Ω .....................155/195/250/330 W

So I guess it should work with a 4 ohm load but usually a receiver that works at lower resistance will have those specs published more like:

• Minimum RMS Output Power for Front, Center, Surround,
Surround back
20 Hz to 20 kHz, 0.04% THD, 8 Ω .................................... 120 W


Buy the M80s and if the receiver doesn't work out, you now have a great reason to upgrade the AVR

Frosti, welcome. This point comes up frequently and you can look at the Sherwood 770 thread for a relevant discussion by Alan and others. The answer is that no, it doesn't "officially" support 4ohm speakers because the lab torture testing that would be necessary wasn't or couldn't be done. Nevertheless, the 6190 wouldn't know that it was connected to speakers that were rated at 4ohms and there's a high probability that it could supply the voltage and current necessary(the M80s are slightly above average in sensitivity and so require less, not more power)unless played unusually loud and long.

I looked in the manual. It appears there is 2 settings in the menu.
it is 8ohm and 6 ohm. under the chart, it looks like if set to 6ohm. The fronts impedance is min 4ohms, while all other channels' min impedance is 6ohm. So it looks like the receiver does work.

I have just bought this receiver less than a month, so I will not be upgrading anytime soon. This receiver is same as the RX-V1800.

So is it ok to mix impedance on speakers? Would it be suggested to buy the M60 instead? My room is about 17ft long x 12 ft. I have just bought the M22 for my surrounds. I am planning on buying the M80 for fronts and the VP150 as center along with another set of M3 as my surround backs.

I just want to make sure my receiver will be able to handle it.

any suggestions?

Disregard the lower impedance setting described in the manual. Always leave it set at 8ohms regardless of the impedance rating of the speakers used. The lower setting is simply a safety precaution which makes overheating less likely. It does this by lowering the maximum voltage which the amplifier can supply, and because of Ohm's Law, when the available voltage is lower, so is the current and power lower. So, although the risk of overheating and fire is reduced, so is the maximum performance capability.

Yes, there's no problem with using speakers that have different impedance ratings. The M60s should be fine in a room of that size, but if you really want the M80s you shouldn't hesitate because of the 6190. It isn't possible to be "sure" that an amplifier, regardless of whether it's in a receiver or separate, will handle a particular set of speakers, source materials, loudness levels used, etc., until it's actually tried, but folks have been using the M80s and other 4ohm rated speakers for years with similar receivers without a problem.

Since you want to use direct radiating speakers for surrounds, it's suggested that the M2s would match your other Axioms better as back surrounds than the M3s would.

i was doing some reading and it appears their will be risk of over heating and fire if driving these speakers too hard. However, what is consider too hard?

I decided to go with direct drives for surrounds as I have had some Dipole surrounds....I don't like them. The sound specially bad when I have 7 channel music going.

Here is the brochure. I doubt very much that you will push this receiver anywhere close to its limits. How big is your room and how far away from your speakers will you be sitting?

ok..I did some actual measurements. My room is 18'x13.5' I will be sitting about 13feet from the speaker.

That tells me that you will most likely be listening with a nominal power of a watt or so with 64W peaks. This is nowhere close to the full power of the amp.

Frost, don't put the Axiom quadpolar Q's series in the same category as other manufacturers bi or dipole speakers, they are not dipole speakers. They have 4 drivers that fire in phase, totally different. The Q's are awesome for 7 channel music listening and are the best in the industry for HT applications.

Direct radiating speakers will not give you the same experience as speakers designed to simulate theaters lined with speakers.

Also, leave the 8-6ohm switch alone as John as mentioned.

Thanks for all the help. I think I will be making the purchase next week. Maybe I will get eh Qs as well and test it out and return what I don't like. Will Axioms be mad if I do that?

What I think maybe i should buy a sub too. Which one do you awesome folks suggest? I currently have a 10" velodyne, but sometimes I don't feel it is strong enough. Which one is a good match for my room size?

I would say for your left/right surrounds definately consider Q's as most surround action comes from those channels. Many people really into 7 channel music, sometimes opt for bookshelfs for the rear channels. In my case I have 4 Qs8's and they work fine.

Axiom will never be mad at you, that is why they offer the guarantee for 30 days.

Sub placement is very tricky. How much have you really experimented with calibration and placement options? If you could post a pic of the room it might help us to give you options. The new Axiom 350 is supposed to be a great performer. A lot depends on your budget as well. One good option is that two subs are better than one, so you could put them on opposite walls, which would help flatten the low response in the room.

Also, if you order 5 or more items (including accessories) from Axiom, you get 5% off, plus if you order from the factory outlet, you get another 10%...

Room pic 1
Room Pic 2

Here is the picture of my room.

thanks for the pics, just a couple of comments.

Dude, you must have tons of reflections in that room. I don't see any floor or wall items to help break up the reflections. I would recommend some nice throw rugs on the floor to help with first reflections on the floor. If you don't want to look into other treatment panels for the walls, plants, and other furntiture or wall hangings will help.

The other thing is the way you have your surrounds and rear speakers placed. It appears they are all along the back wall? If possible I would recommend placing the left/right speakers on the side walls or on stands to the side. do you have wall mounting options?

I actually have no reflection problems. even during the day. My blinds actually block out the lights completely. When I watch movies, I always have the ligths off..so that is not a problem.

I am actually planning on moving the surround to the side. I have them there right now because I am still running wires.

sirquack was talking about sound reflection... "Bright" room is audio jargon.

Yep, I'm talking about the reflective properties of your room, nothing on the floors, walls, etc.

so what do you suggest?

I suggest that you sit in your sweet spot and have someone run a mirror along the wall. Wherever you see a tweeter from your fronts in the mirror, that's an area you have to treat. Do this along your ceiling too. Try temporarily placing some soft material in those areas (eg. towels) and see if you notice a difference. If so, you will then need to purchase some room treatments. One for each side wall and two for the ceiling would probably work well in that room for starters.

The geometry of your room is such that you will most likely benefit greatly from this particularly at higher volumes.

Try the clap test, walk around the room and clap your hands real hard, do you hear an echo? If yes, think about what happens to sound coming from your speakers. The direct sound from the speaker arrives at your ears different from the reflections from your wall and floor and ceiling.

If you don't want to get into bass traps and acoustic panels, at least throw some nice carpet throw rugs or something on the floor between you and the front speakers.

Anything, you can add to break up the reflections a bit will help with the overall sound.

I have pics on my website of the panels I've built for HT1 and HT2.

there is definitely some echo coming. I will try the rug. see if it helps.

I have another question though, if I do decide to go with the QS8, do I need to get 4 of them? How should the placement be?
what about if I decide to stick with the M22 and then buy 2 more Qs8?

I'd say, definitely get the QS8s. Place them on the side walls to the side of the couch. They seem to be very forgiving for placement so they could be positioned just slightly ahead, behind or even with the couch. If you can devise a way to experiment before drilling screw holes, it could be a fun experiment. Otherwise, you should be very happy as long as you give them some breathing room from the ceiling and the back wall.

If the door or other issues cause placement problems on the walls, you could always place them to the sides using the stands you already own.

If you can get the couch pulled out from the back wall 4' or so, you could experiment with 7.1. If I were you, I wouldn't invest in extra speakers for 7.1 right away but use a couple of your existing speakers as the rears to experiment with. You might even decide to keep the existing bookshelves as rears as they may work very well for you. Many people use direct radiating for rears together with QS style for surrounds.

In my current room, my couch was only about 3-4' from the back wall and I experimented with my old HK bookshelves as rears for 7.1. I actually went back to 5.1 with just my QS8s for surrounds. I just didn't find enough improvement.

In fact, it could have been me, but because the rears were not working very well in thier required placement, I found I was losing some surround effects that sounded better when the processor was doing straight 5.1 instead of trying to figure out what will got to my ineffective rears and what will go to the surrounds. Might have been paranoia though.

With your older speakers, pre-existing stands, and a little extra speaker wire, you are set up to have lots of fun experimenting.

The QS8s for surrounds though, are a definate must have.

With placing the QS8's should they be placed facing forward to the TV? or facing the couch?

Normally for 5.1, you want your side surrounds facing each other, for 7.1 the rears would be facing the front of the room.

so if I have QS8...it should be like This?


and with direct radiating it should be like this?

The tweeters on the QSs should be firing to the front and rear of the room. You don't have to position the side direct radiators the way you've shown. You can point the drivers slightly away from your listening position to diffuse the sound.

I've had direct radiators as sides and I would never recommend them over the QSs.

As Mojo mentioned, there are two tweeters on the front of the Qs8's, one firing to the left, one firing to the right. So, you want the front (with axiom logo) facing the listeners so the tweeters are firing around you and enveloping you.



With direct radiating it would be more like you describe, haveing them face the listening area.

Frosti, the back surround speakers in 7.1 setup require some room behind the listening position(say at least 4')for the back surround effect to develop. If you can move the couch forward enough to make 7.1 worthwhile, then the side surrounds should be on the side walls directly to the side of the couch and about 2-3' above ear level. The back surrounds should be on the back wall(facing forward)at the same height and separated to the left and right edges of the couch.

If you remain almost up against the back wall, a 5.1 setup is advisable; the surrounds could either be on the side walls just a few inches from the back wall or on the back wall(again facing forward)just a few inches from the side walls.

Ok...this is what I will do...
I will buy the QS8 and and move my couches forward.

Mount the QS8 on the wall. How high should I mount it? or should I just get the Stand.

Also should i return the m22 and get a smaller M2 or M3 for the surround back? or Just get 4 Qs8? lol

Is it worth it to go 7.1?

or one Qs8 centered and go 6.1

hmm...that is an interesting idea. so you mean with one QS8 for the surround back and then 2 direct with the M22 point toward the listener?

No just the lone QS8 for the rear surround and then 2 more for side surrounds. I am running this type of configuration as I have a big gap between my side surrounds due to a diagonal layout for my HT and the rear surround really help fill in the void.

Use the M22s for another room

Curious Jason, how are you hooking up the single back to your system?

Most 7.1 receivers say to hook up the lone rear surround to either the left or right rear surround speaker posts(the manual will tell you which one) and then in the configuration of the speakers you set it to 1 rear speaker for a 6.1 set up.

yup, just what jason said.

Ok...I have decided. I have just ordered
2 x m80
1 x vp150
1 x QS8
1 x QS8 Stand
I think 6.1 will suffice for now. I will upgrade again when I am done finishing my basement. Then I will be moving my current 50" plasma to the basement and by a new 60" for current room and I will move the M22 down stairs and buy some more QS8s.

thanks, for all the help you awesome people.

Did you order from the Factory Outlet to save some $$$? What color did you order?

I did order from factory and because of the 5 item. I got an extra 5%. I got black oak for color. Didn't notice any cosmetic defect on the M22 I got...or it is just my luck?

Just need to fish some of the wire thru the wall before the speakers come now...I can't wait.

You are not alone, most report very small blemishes if any from the FO.

I have 1 mark on the bottom left corner of one speaker and one indentation on the other, but I had to really look for them. The VP150 I also purchased from the FO doesn't have any damage I can find.

hey jason, noticed you live in Calgary too. Which part of calgary are you at?

got any pics to your setup?

If you head over to the community you can check out my mains - M80s, and VP150 and also my M22s and VP100. I have 3 QS8's to go along with the M80's, all driven by a Denon 3808 as of Dec. 25th

If you have time you can drop by and have a listen, just send me a PM.

Another question, what is a minimum size sub I need to the size of my room?

I would say that depends on your desire for bass. The lowest sub will fill the void below your speakers won't reach to, but not as solidly or loudly.

Your room you stated was 17x12 so the EP350v3 should do the trick very nicely from what I have read(must get over to Greg's for a listen) But for a real impactful sub I would go for the EP500 or 600 if the funds are there.

Yeah hoooo....received my notification of shipment, though I will need to wait for 2 weeks because of the QS8....but 1week + 1 day and it is shipped....you rock Axiom!!!!!