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#191780 - 01/11/08 11:53 PM multiple subs? (ep500 and ep350)
terzaghi Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 04/04/07
Posts: 4870
Loc: Tulsa, Oklahoma
Well I happen to have a little extra cash floating around (thanks to my graduation gift from the parents) and I am seriously thinking of getting an ep350 to go with my ep500.

I have my ep500 in the corner up front and to the right, and was thinking about placing an ep350 in the back left corner. I could move the subs away from the corner as much as needed to eliminate any 'boomy' bass.

I guess I have a couple of questions:
1.) do you think an ep500 and an ep350 would go well together?
2.) do multiple subs increase bass output AND smooth out the bass over the entire room?
3.) my room is 2150 CF, but it is pretty much open to a fairly large kitched and to a hallway. Am I nuts for wanting two subs?

and the last question:

I happen to have an extra driver laying around, do you think I could purchase the sub without a driver and save some cash?

Thanks!
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#191784 - 01/12/08 01:03 AM Re: multiple subs? (ep500 and ep350) [Re: terzaghi]
JohnK Offline
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Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10621
T, multiple subs increase bass output and can also result in smoother bass, depending on placement in the room. If they're widely separated, as you're proposing, the increase in output would be the 3dB increase experienced when any two speakers output the same sound. If they're located closely together(within about 1/4 wavelength at 80Hz or whatever highest frequency they're responsible for)the increase in output can be as much as 6dB, because of mutual reinforcement at that close distance.

Smoothing the bass can result from placements as shown in the frequently cited Harman study by Dr. Toole and his colleagues. Placement of two at the middle of opposite sidewalls or the middle of the front and back walls was best, but diagonally opposite corners, as you propose, were also of benefit in reducing resonances because of the subs being located at points where the phase relationships were opposite each other.
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#191796 - 01/12/08 09:07 AM Re: multiple subs? (ep500 and ep350) [Re: JohnK]
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13565
Loc: Iowa
I am also considering adding additional subs for my super large room, around 8,000 cf. \:\) While I would like another 500 or 600, my budget will allow for multiple 350v3's as they are much cheaper, and I would most likely order from the FO. Two of them for about the price of one 500 is not a bad deal and with that nifty new circuit Alan talkes about, I'm very curious about others trying this.....
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#191802 - 01/12/08 10:33 AM Re: multiple subs? (ep500 and ep350) [Re: terzaghi]
jakeman Offline
aficionado

Registered: 10/03/05
Posts: 853
Loc: Toronto
I have always recommended dual subwoofers at a minimum to all my friends setting up HTs regardless of room size. The benefits in terms of increased headroom, lower distortion and smoother frequency response are very real.

While two of the same subwoofers are ideal, its not necessary in order to get most of these benefits. If going with different subwoofers I would suggest trying to use 2 subs that have close tuning frequencies ( also called Fb or box resonant frequency). It will make it easier to get the phase right between each sub and better blending with the speakers, and result in smoother FR. Its a phallacy that you have to use the same manufacturers subs to get these benefits and any two subs with similar Fb should be OK if their other design parameters fall in line. Even if that's not possible to have similar subs, dual subs are still usually worthwhile because of the extra headroom and lower distortion.

Fb of the EP500/600 is around 22/23hz and I suspect given the similar dimensions of the EP350 it would also be in that vicinity so they would pair really well. One thing to keep in mind is there will be a slight time delay because of the DSP processing in the 500 so if you can, position the 500 one metre closer to the listening position than the 350 for optimal placement.
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#191806 - 01/12/08 11:25 AM Re: multiple subs? (ep500 and ep350) [Re: jakeman]
terzaghi Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 04/04/07
Posts: 4870
Loc: Tulsa, Oklahoma
I plan was to keep the ep500 in the front right corner, and put the ep350 in the back left corner. If I switched these two then I would have the 500 closer to me so that may be better.

However, the 500 would then be at the end of a 40 ft sub cable, while the 350 would be at the end of a 10 ft cable. Does that matter?

Also, I suppose I would want to put the phase at 180 for the speaker at the back and try that first right?
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-David

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#191811 - 01/12/08 11:37 AM Re: multiple subs? (ep500 and ep350) [Re: terzaghi]
jakeman Offline
aficionado

Registered: 10/03/05
Posts: 853
Loc: Toronto
It shouldn't matter at that cable length as long as it has reasonable shielding, but if you had the connector at the receiver/processor output I would go with balanced connections to be sure.

If you don't have a display to see FR (like with an SMS-1 for example) set your RS metre at your favourite seat and try all the phase switch combinations. Many articles suggest, erroneously in my view, to choose the setting which sounds loudest. Loudest often means bigger peaks. Its far better to choose the combo that has less volatility on the metre when running a sweep. That means a smoother FR. The beauty of multiple subs is all the headroom you have to raise the volume and keep things smoother and clean.
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#191814 - 01/12/08 11:46 AM Re: multiple subs? (ep500 and ep350) [Re: jakeman]
terzaghi Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 04/04/07
Posts: 4870
Loc: Tulsa, Oklahoma
Is there any difference between this cable:
http://www.monoprice.com/products/produc...&seq=1&format=2

and the Lc-1 cable listed here:
http://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/subwoofer/index.htm

The first is about 10 bucks for 50 ft, while the second is $65

Thanks.
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-David

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#191815 - 01/12/08 11:57 AM Re: multiple subs? (ep500 and ep350) [Re: terzaghi]
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 18044
Loc: NoVA
I doubt it.
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#191817 - 01/12/08 12:02 PM Re: multiple subs? (ep500 and ep350) [Re: terzaghi]
Wid Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/22/03
Posts: 6789
Loc: The Peoples Republic of Il.

They are both 75 Ohm cables, there will be no sonic differences. The price difference is most likely due to where it is made.
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"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud


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#191823 - 01/12/08 12:53 PM Re: multiple subs? (ep500 and ep350) [Re: Wid]
jakeman Offline
aficionado

Registered: 10/03/05
Posts: 853
Loc: Toronto
For the price difference its a no brainer to go for the monoprice cable. However there are some quality differences favouring the Blue Jeans that I see. The Canare connectors on the Blue Jeans are much better build quality that those RCA's. Shielding looks the same. Capacitance is lower on the Blue Jeans which theoretically is what you want in an interconnect. Still not worth the price difference.

I doubt you can hear the difference in cable capacitance in sub bass over that distance. The bigger concern is how noisy is your environment and at 40ft thats in the zone where I would start to think about balanced cables to make sure there is no extraneous noise.

Sonic differences do exist in cables, but are so dependent on shielding, capacitance, inductance, impedance, noise in the environment and especially how the cable interacts with your player,amp or speaker/subs that generalizations are near impossible.
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John

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