Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater Looking to get Axiom speakers but need some advice

Hello,

I'm in need of a good set of 5.1 home theater speakers for my bonus room.

The bonus room that I'm using has the following dimensions:
19'0" long, 15'6" wide with 8'1" ceiling (2,400 cubic feet).

I'm using a new Yamaha RX-V3800 receiver (140 x 7) and a Samsung HL-R6168 DLP TV.
The primary use will be for watching Blu-ray movies and HDTV.

My current setup has floor standing towers, matching center channel, 10" powered sub and smaller wall mounted rear speakers.
The center speaker blew last night watching "The Rock" on Blu-ray so I'm using this as an excuse to get a new system.

I'm thinking of getting the following:

- M80's
- VP150
- EP350
- QS8'S

I have attached an image showing my current layout.

Thanks to all,
Zak

That looks like a very fun room. I don't think you can go wrong with your choices. I'll let people with more knowledge advise you on the 4 ohm aspect of the M80s, but it seems like your receiver would be capable.

In a typical 5.1 setup the surrounds should be to the side of the listening area or slightly behind.

My couch is up against the wall so I have my side surrounds mounted on the back wall, but they are spread out to the sides and pretty close to the couch. Is there something keeping you from placing the speakers on the side walls?

Anyway, I recently got a 5.1 setup consisting of m80's, vp150, qs8's, and ep500. My room is 2150 cf and it sounds great. The m80's will work fine in that room.

I think you will be very happy with axiom speakers. What are you upgrading from?

The house was pre-wired with the current locations for the rear speakers.
The wiring was done at the framing stage with a banana/binding post wallplate at the front of room.

It's hard to make out in the included layout but the wall behind the love seat has a 9' x 4' opening in it so I can't mount anything there and the other side of room has a full height window.

Zak

That's the sad part of houses not being made of Legos.

Zak, welcome. Yes, in a 5.1 setup the QS8s are sides, not "rears". If they have to be mounted on the back wall because of the wiring, at least they should be separated as much as possible, to within a few inches of the side walls.

I think I would bump up the sub to an EP500 other than that you have chosen a great system.

I think the QS8s will work great back there, just not quite as enveloping as when they are mounted to either side.

You could always pull extra wire down from those rear positions to the floor and run it around/under the base boards to the side position.

I have my QS8's next to the couch (I mean *RIGHT* next) to the rear couch and it works fine. I have them on the FMS stand that Axiom sells. Since QS8's have a speaker on the bottom, you can't use any old stand.

Also, if cost is a factor, I would bump M80's down to 60's and go for the EP500. I have the Epic-80/500 setup and I *love* it!!

Instead of trading performance of the M80s to the M60s to save money I would look at a different sub. Something like the Hsu VTF 3.3 for the same amount of money of the EP 350 but the performance closer to the EP 500. That is if you are in the states.

I wish I could but the speaker wire running to rear locations has been spiral wound around the roof truss with only 6" of wire protruding from the rear wall plates.

Zak

I only have 6" of wire protruding from the rear wall plates so I'm really limited for placement options.
I just read the QS8 manual and although it's not ideal it should be ok on the rear wall:

"Quadpolar surround speakers in a 5.1 system will sound their best and
produce the greatest sense of envelopment in the surround soundfield if
they are to each side of the listening area (see diagram) rather than on
the rear walls, and from 1 to 5 feet above the level of seated listener’s
ears.
However if your room doesn’t permit side-wall placement of the
surrounds, the QS models will work very effectively on the rear wall
behind the listening area."

Zak

I just spoke to an Axiom rep and they believe that I should go with the M60's (8 Ohm) instead of the M80's (4 Ohm) as my Yamaha RX-V3800 is an 8 Ohm receiver.

Zak

I think your yammy would probably be fine with 80's. Older Yammy's had issues, but I think you would be just fine. Axiom has certain brands of AVR's they promote from previous experiments. Many people have had no issues driving 80's.

If you decide to go with 60's, you will also be very happy, trust me.

I was also thinking M60s and an EP500.

That's going to be a good room.

Zak, you're not limited to the 6" of wire that come from the wall now; it can be extended to the sides with more wire to permit placement almost at the side walls.

The 3800 has substantial output at 4 ohms and isn't an "8 ohm receiver", whatever that's supposed to mean.

Sounds like a perfect fit for the flat speaker cables I just saw (on Axiom). You can use the 6" stub to connect it to the flat cables and run it down the wall.

Splice into it and run the wires, the splice won't affect anything if done properly.

Alternatively, if you are going to run new wire under the baseboard anyways, you could just run two more pairs from your equipment area to the proper side positions. Leave the wiring intact in the rear, and then you will be all set up for 7.1 surround sound.

I recently did this for a friend whose wife wouldn't let him move his surround speakers from on top of his TV (not much surround effect there) because she refused to have speaker wire showing along the floor.

He now has surround speakers with no wires showing as even the wall plates are hidden by his surrounds.

Also, we recovered 2 dollars from the project when we found a Toony inside the wall where we were were cutting the gyp rock up slightly under where the baseboard goes back on. Must have been dropped in the wall before or during the drywall process.

He has an opening from the HT equipment to the left side and it would be difficult to get to the surround position, which is why I suggested splicing into the pre-existing wires, but the flat wire under the carpet would work from the front to the left side surround.

I really think Axiom needs to re-do their testing with Yamaha Amps...I think they are passing out incorrect advise with regards to Yamaha...just my opinion.

Well, let's get together and hook up you little Yammie with the M80's and see what SPL it will get to before/if it shuts down.

Well mdrew tested the RX-V661 amps with his M80s, they approached 100db I think before they shut down...I am more interested in the upper range amps (from the new 3800) and see how they perform with M80s.

Zak,

I have an older Yamaha Receiver RXV-657 and it can be set to drive 4 ohm speakers. Read the manual to see how to change the settings.

.... Heck, spent a couple of minutes @ yamaha.com and here is what I found.

Page 33 "Setting the speaker impedence" tells you exactly how to flip between the 8 and 4 ohm settings.

Axiom support - if you are reading this thread, please note this feature re: the yammies.

It's generally considered 'round these parts to be a bad idea to flip that switch. It just limits current and can cause more problems than it solves.

I purchased the VP150 center channel speaker today.

I have decided to hold off on the towers for now until I have a better understanding on the ohms issue with Yamaha receiver.
I want the M80's as I know they are the better speaker but I don't want to run into any issues.

Zak

I think that solidifies my thoughts on M80s versus M60s and my Pio 94. If I could only get 100db and it shut down, I would not be happy I think. Do I normally push it that hard? No. But then again the other day when everyone was out and I was working in another room, I had it up. Came back in and measured. 103db. Then again, I do have hearing deficiencies.

Robb, I think that is why they don't recommend Yamaha, as they can't guarrantee some one won't buy a lower end one and be mad that they could only get 100db or less(?)and it shut down. Are the higher end ones better, I don't know but I think if it is in the RXV line they all have the same power supplies.

Meanwhile even the low end Denons drive the M80s with out trouble. I have had my 1804 upto 105db for a few hours with out problems and ran 1.3ohms for an hour or so. I haven't pushed the 3808 yet.

M, numerous times here and elsewhere it's been pointed out that the "feature" involving a lower ohm setting is worse than useless if performance is the criterion. This is simply a safety related setting intended to help prevent overheating. If the units in question don't pass the UL temperature tests when driving a 4ohm load, the setting is required for liability reasons. It functions by reducing the maximum voltage that the power supply section of the unit can output and, because of Ohm's Law, when the maximum voltage is reduced so is the maximum current and power. So, although it reduces the chance of overheating, it likewise reduces the maximum performance possible. Lab tests have indicated that the maximum power is reduced on the order of 1/3 to 1/2.

Regardless of the ohm rating of the speakers used, the setting should remain at 8ohms. All amplifiers are 4ohm capable, the question is how capable. It shouldn't be assumed that the particular source material used in a particular setup at a particular volume level won't be handled well.

If it were me, I would move the QS8's to the sides and mount them on ceiling brackets since you have a window on one side. The surrounds are key to creating that enveloping feeling which you will negate a bit by having them behind.

Since you already have the rear wired just put some bookshelves up and you have a 7.1 system. I am assuming from your setup the cost of an extra set of small speakers is not an issue.

You have a great room with an awesome home theatre setup. Why go to all this planning and expense and then compromise on it in the final stages?

It sounds like you are hung up on what you have done already. If you just want it to be done you will still have a great sounding system, and depending upon how much you are into the theatre experience, you may not even notice it isn't quite right until you are in a properly setup room. I think most here would move the rears to the sides at least.

If it were me, I would move the QS8's to the sides and mount them on ceiling brackets since you have a window on one side. The surrounds are key to creating that enveloping feeling which you will negate a bit by having them behind.

Since you already have the rear wired just put some bookshelves up and you have a 7.1 system. I am assuming from your setup the cost of an extra set of small speakers is not an issue.

You have a great room with an awesome home theatre setup. Why go to all this planning and expense and then compromise on it in the final stages?

It sounds like you are hung up on what you have done already. If you just want it to be done you will still have a great sounding system, and depending upon how much you are into the theatre experience, you may not even notice it isn't quite right until you are in a properly setup room. I think most here would move the rears to the sides at least.