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Re: Canadian Health Care System
jakeman #192169 01/14/08 07:17 PM
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There is something morally wrong when CEO's and upper level mangers of HMO's are making millions and billions of dollars and less fortunate people are denied health care resulting in chronic pain and death. The fact the government not only allows this to happen but actually supports the system is not just disturbing, it is appalling!

The fact that this happens in the richest country in the world and is often quoted by its own people as the best country in the world is repulsive!

I can’t believe Americans actually stand for this and allow it to happen in 2008. In Canada, England, Germany, Holland, France and many other countries (which have an average better standard of living than US citizens) there would be a revolution if a government tried to implement a system like the US.

Paul


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Re: Canadian Health Care System
tomtuttle #192187 01/14/08 08:56 PM
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 Originally Posted By: tomtuttle
Where's Bren?
Staying out of anything that resembles politics or religion.

I like our system... it's not perfect, but it works pretty well. I mean, as a young-ish professional living with the same, she goes to the doctor every 6 months (because she's female... and their parts require maintentance), I've been... three times in ten years I think? Chances are that I'm paying more in taxes then I get back from the system, but if you look past your own bubble... I'm also paying for the guy standing beside me at a concert to get his bronchitis looked after so he doesn't give it to me... I'm also paying for my grandmother's health care... and for all the less-selfish people out there that have kids to form the next generation.

I'm not sick now, but I could be someday... I could drop dead at 85 having never had a major illness (and damn, I gambled all that tax money on a system I never used), or I could be shot on opening day of hunting season this year and require a level of care that would economically cripple my family if I didn't have the coverage. I like the former idea... at worst, I've helped cover the bill for some poor kid somewhere born with a defect of some kind.

Bren R.

Re: Canadian Health Care System
BrenR #192192 01/14/08 09:12 PM
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Thanks, Bro. I appreciate the opportunity to learn from the perspective of my Canadian friends.


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Re: Canadian Health Care System
tomtuttle #192198 01/14/08 09:39 PM
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You realize I'm unaccustomed to be asked for my personal opinion on something (as opposed to cracking out my head and dumping technical knowledge out)?

Bren R.

Re: Canadian Health Care System
BrenR #192203 01/14/08 10:01 PM
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We'll just consider it a Health Care Opinion Omelet and admire it.


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Re: Canadian Health Care System
tomtuttle #192215 01/14/08 10:43 PM
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I was surprised to find this article in Wikipedia that deals directly with this thread topic. Seems fairly balanced going through the pros and cons. I did not realize that the USA is the ONLY wealthy industrialized country that does not have some form of universal health care. Here is a copy of the summary with a link to the full article:

 Quote:

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Government and private health and public policy analysts have compared the health care systems of Canada and the United States.[1][2][3][4] In 2004, per-capita spending for health care in the U.S. was more than double that in Canada: in the U.S., it totaled US$6,096; in Canada, US$3,038.[5] Studies have come to different conclusions about the result of this disparity in spending. A 2007 review of all studies comparing health outcomes in Canada and the U.S., in a Canadian peer-reviewed medical journal, found that "health outcomes may be superior in patients cared for in Canada versus the United States, but differences are not consistent."[6] Life expectancy is longer in Canada, and its infant mortality rate is lower than that of the U.S., but there is debate about the underlying causes of these differences. The World Health Organization's ratings of health care system performance among 191 member nations, published in 2000, ranked Canada 30th and the U.S. 37th, and the overall health of Canadians 35th and Americans 72nd.[7]

The health care system in Canada is largely government-funded, with most services provided by private enterprises. Waiting times for major non-emergency surgery have been longer in Canada, and Canada has been slightly slower to adopt expensive technology and medicines. Consequently, Canada has had higher mortality rates for some conditions, such as heart attacks.[8] Canadian health administrators say that these problems are improving. [9]

Through all entities in its public-private system, the U.S. spends more per capita than any other nation in the world,[5] but is the only wealthy industrialized country in the world that lacks some form of universal health care.[10] Health insurance in the U.S. is expensive, rapidly rising costs are affecting employers and consumers as well as the government, and a study in Health Affairs concluded that half of personal bankruptcies involved medical bills.[11], although other sources dispute this.[12]]

As both countries consider changes to their systems, there is debate over whether resources should be added to the public or private sector. Although Canadians and Americans have each looked to the other for ways to improve their respective health care systems, there exists a substantial amount of conflicting information regarding the relative merits of the two systems.[13] In Canada, the United States is used as a model and as a warning against increasing private sector involvement in health care. In the U.S., meanwhile, Canada's mostly monopsonistic health system is seen by different sides of the ideological spectrum as either a model to be followed or avoided.[14][15]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_and_American_health_care_systems_compared




John
Re: Canadian Health Care System
Worfzara #192217 01/14/08 10:56 PM
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 Originally Posted By: Worfzara
I do know that Ontario’s MRI machines are running 24 hours a day due to the demand and depending on your situation you could wait up to 6 months, again sig less than the 18 months reported here.


Just offering a personal experience on this one . . . Ian was booked to get an MRI on his knee (so not life-threatening, but certainly something that pained him every day) - booked the appointment in May . . . and the MRI was scheduled for the following June, 13 months later, at 8:30 pm, 185 km away. A month before it was due, he got a call pushing it out a month longer. So he waited just over 14 months in total.

Two months after the MRI he called the doctor's office to find out why he hadn't heard any results, only to find the time had been so long that his doctor had actually died in the meantime!

Obviously the death of the doctor is just a strange sidebar, but the wait time and distance were certainly real.

As the other Canadians have said, YMMV!

Re: Canadian Health Care System
jakeman #192218 01/14/08 10:56 PM
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Not to open a different can of worms... but I liken it to public versus private auto insurance... as you Albertans know... you take it up the hoop for your insurance... while those of us under public insurance get off pretty easy... it's actually something the government does better than private companies do.

The big problems with public insurance being things like the monopoly, where the insurer starts saying things like "If you don't have an immobilizer, we won't insure you!" and "We won't pay out your claim, your car had an immobilizer, it COULDN'T have been stolen!"... (a hot topic for Manitobans, as MPI starts making the addition of 3rd party vehicle immobilizers being hacked into your car mandatory, and refusing to take any responsibility for the problems they cause)

Bren R.

Re: Canadian Health Care System
Worfzara #192250 01/15/08 12:47 AM
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 Quote:
There is something morally wrong when CEO's and upper level mangers of HMO's are making millions and billions of dollars and less fortunate people are denied health care resulting in chronic pain and death.

Well, the CEOs and beholden to the shareholders, and the upper-level managers are beholden to the CEO. So you have to look at the shareholders, ultimately. As long as the primary concern is profit, then morals are the first thing to be defenestrated.

Re: Canadian Health Care System
BrenR #192265 01/15/08 02:13 AM
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 Originally Posted By: BrenR
Not to open a different can of worms... but I liken it to public versus private auto insurance... as you Albertans know... you take it up the hoop for your insurance... while those of us under public insurance get off pretty easy... it's actually something the government does better than private companies do.



Bren R.


I don't know about that Brent. I have looked into the costs of insuring my 2006 F150 and 2007 Rav4 in BC and Sask I get mine cheaper here in Alberta, by a few bucks. It is only those with bad driving records that are paying through the nose for their insurance, as it should be. They are also usually the ones screaming about insurance being cheaper else where.


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