Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Stereo Vinyl hangout…..

Vinyl hangout…..

It seems that there are some here that are starting to get into vinyl, and I thought I might start a thread dedicated to the subject.

I'm planning on purchasing a Technics 1200 series turntable and a Shure M97 cartridge this week. I also went down to a local record store and couldn't believe the number of great LPs from .88¢ through $3.99! I could've picked up 50 albums that I knew and loved in past years that never made their way to purchased CDs…

I'm planning on using the setup with my Denon 3805, though I'm partly justifying the purchase because I've received calls from customers wanting to know if we transfer vinyl to CD. If that's the case, I might be looking for a separate phono preamp to feed a Mackie mixer. Any thoughts on inexpensive phono preamps?

I have to admit that I love the nostalgia of a TT….it'll bring me back to the days of first falling in love with quality sound. I don't know if vinyl will sound better than CDs as some say, but I think I'll enjoy the variety of finds at the record store.

It's interesting that, despite the much higher S/N ratio available from a CD player, some feel that vinyl has a dynamic range that you no longer find with popular CD releases.

Anyone having problems with rumble now that subs are the norm and few (any?) amps have infrasonic filters??

Any thoughts in general? Show of hands: Who is into vinyl here?

Mark, it sounds like a great idea. It's something I've kicked around for quite some time, but have never pulled the trigger on.

As for inexpensive phono preamps, here's one that I've always kept my eye on. I don't know much about it, but it does look kinda cool. I'll let other's who know more about vinyl chime in.

Yet, something else I can potentially spend my tax return on.

Dude!
Thanks for the link to that phono preamp...it's one I was curious about as well.

My fault, though...I wasn't too clear in my original post.

The time when I would need the preamp would specifically be when I have a customer wanting me to convert an LP to CD for them. Even though I might end up liking the "tube sound" personally, for a client, I would be looking for as accurate a transfer as possible...therefore likely a SS phono amp!

Looks like Bellari has an SS preamp for cheap! Looks like it's brand new with little info. Dunno? Certainly is affordable, though.

Seems my ga-gaing about vinyl has bitten a few of you - or was just the nudge needed to get you back into it. Welcome!! I've been into vinyl since the 70s. Got out of it for a while mainly because I was the only one would move the 21 crates full of the stuff. When I moved five times in less than two years I slowly decided to get out of it. But, now I'm back and I'm making enough money to afford to have someone do the moving for me! And to afford a MUCH better turntable.

I was just going to recommend that very Bellari/Rolls phono preamp! I had one and gave it to a friend who needed to hook up her Technics tt to a system without a dedicated phono jack. Works like a charm. Bellari also makes tube preamps too.

Was just listening to the Nitty Gritty Dirt Band's Will the Circle Be Unbroken on vinyl with my Scott 222C tube amp. I've also got it on CD, but it doesn't have the life and sonic warmth that the vinyl does. It's like the difference between witnessing that line-up live at the Grand Ole Opry versus hearing the CD while shopping at Walmart. Clearly no comparison. Vinyl usually always wins!

Mark, consider getting yourself an Audio-Technic cartridge over the Shure. I've got both - and more - and the AT 440MLa is a truly musical cart. Worth the extra few bucks. Do some hunting on Audio Asylum's Vinyl page. Amazing resource there. A bunch of folks (men and women!) who love vinyl and are not greedy about it! I've learned a ton on there and met the only person I trust to work on my Dual 1219 turntable on that site.

I still find that best place to get used records is still in garage sales and thrift stores. Sure, I go to other lengths to bid top dollar for rarities, but if you like the idea of happening upon something, break for yard sales!

On the note of finding vinyl that's not available on CD, I recently started to wish for a way to hear certain CDs I have on vinyl - ones that were made only in the CD era. I have a few, like Sarah McLachlan's Fumbling Towards Ecstasy, which sound amazing! But I can think of about 100+ CDs I'd wish were made in the vinyl era. I believe that the original format albums were made for are usually how they sound best. But I wonder what some albums would sound like if mastered for vinyl listening.

Just some thoughts as I strayed away from the stereo for a moment.

Zoë

ACK! Too late!

I just ordered the Technics and Shure....! That's OK, I'm "shure" I'll be happy!

Ha-ha! Well, once you get really bitten - like after you have everything set up and your favorite record moves you to tears (yes, tears) you'll order an AT 440MLa. I'm 'Shure' of it!

Spinning Edie Brickell's Shooting Rubberbands at the Stars on vinyl. It's a good album, but a little weak on all formats, which leads me to believe it was just not very well produced in the first place. Nothing like 2003's Volcano - which is definitely on that list of CDs I'd like to hear on vinyl.

After this I'll play her husband's Graceland lp. After that I think I'll need to hear some jazz.

I like Shooting Rubberbands at the Stars, but I haven't listened to it since getting my Axioms. I also have Volcano, but I only listened to it once or twice, and I didn't get into it. I'll have to give it another try.

Definitely give Volcano another go. It's really one of the best albums to come out of that year. I play it about once a week on average.

Here's a unit I have stored in the closet as of now. I got it from a friend who inherited it a couple of years back. I think it dates from the early 80s, not to sure.

Beautiful base! Is she working?

It needs a new cartridge but other than that it is suppose to work just fine. I haven't hooked it up yet, I plan on it fairly soon.

Keep us posted Rick!

I'm also interested to get back to listening to Vinyl. Last played with Vinly in the early 90's ever since has been listening to CD. I still have loads Vinyl that i wist to take out for a spin.

BRING OUT THE GIMP!

Testing my new sig-line avatar while waiting for my TT to arrive!

Nice rosewood Denon Rick. I tried bidding on a few of those a couple of years ago on ebay. They tend to get over $200.

I got back into the vinyl venue two years ago when I set up my two channel system. I purchased a Music Hall MMF-5 for around $500. Shortly thereafter, very shortly, in fact, I learned the hard way that Beefeater martinis, wives and brand new turntables do not make a good combination. I have not been able to listen to any vinyl since then, but I guess we had a good time that night, or so my wife keeps assuring me.

Mark got the groove goin' on ...

I like it!

Mark, you've inspired me to change my avatar too!

Technics are very good turn tables. I have some DJ friends who swear by 'em.

{leans forward} Oh.... DO tell..........

I wish I knew the details. She just assures me we had fun. Do you think she is lying? All I know is the next day I went to play an album and the turntable was all cock-eyed in the cabinet with the cover left open . . .

Get her on the forum, we need some clarification on this issue

I saw this article linked to somewhere else, and I thought it might be relevant to this thread, for anyone who's more curious than I am about getting into vinyl, but equally clueless.

Turntable Basics - How to Get Started in Vinyl

Good article. But I want to know where he found an SL1200 for $75. I've never seen used ones for anything less than $250.

Another (sortof) vinyl fan here

The very first time I heard a record played back i literally could not wipe the smile off my face. I was fascinated that it was possible to get sound like that off of something that is so simple, and requires no electronics to produce.

I cant honestly say that it sounds better than cd's because with the equipment I have it just doesnt. Only my records that i bought new can come close, and I can listen to and be quite content but if they are not kept clean and in pristine condition its just a battle.

Heres a pic of the tables. The real table (the black one) is a Sansui SR-838 from the late 70's I think which weighs something like 35 lbs and has the really nice gloss black finish. I got this table from the lab at my college a couple years ago and just needed to have the strobe sensor in the motor cleaned. Put a grado black on it and away I went! I also replaced those crappy rca cables with something a little better. I had to replace the feet on it with the rubber ones that came with my M80's (thanks axiom! :D) and since the original ones that wore out were a spring contratption I put it all on a custom made African mahogany air mass isolation platform.





To the left is my Record cleaning table. The way it works is you put the record down, There is a small shop vac hooked up to the arm that swings out and I like to vaccume it once, then wash the record with a clean microfiver car wax applicator pad and my mixture of alcohol and water then vacuume the water off and keep spinning the record (by hand) with the vaccume on until its pretty much dry. Then flip over and repeat on the other side. I built the table part for it and salvaged a motor and platter off a cheapo table so I would have something to spin it on then the arm is a vaccume attachment I modified by pluggung the end after cutting part of it off then cutting a slot in the bottom for the air and actually its like it was specifically designed just for that purpose with the curves it has. The mount for the vaccume arm is part off a drill, the part that attaches the removable handle. Its really quite genious

I dont really play records that much and only have about 10 or so that are in good enough shape to really be able to enjoy but I still enjoy the occasion when I play one or two.

That's a nice looking set up, Brandon.

I'd never be that meticulous with my vinyl (if I had any left). I am however always intrigued by building gadgets. Can you elaborate on the tube used as the arm to vacuum the record and the rotating elbow?

I just finished a nice custom sized picture frame for an old photo that my wife has, so I'm well overdue to build something for myself that I'll probably never use much.

I am getting inspired to find a turntable and explore some ancient unopened boxes from my childhood to see what I find. I actually didn't own many records before CDs became more popular and I know they are all scratched to some degree. One thing we have a lot of here though is people with old junk. There is probably a treasure trove of old vinyl out there because current trends that are not spread to youth on TV are always a year or two late here and so the vinyl resurgence hasn't hit yet.

My Squeezebox has me so lazy though now, I don't know if I could go back to choosing and swapping media for every album. I live on random mode.

Brandon, I just drooled all over my keyboard looking at your site! Lovely stuff! You've got great woodworking talent. Ever think about doing custom pieces for other people who lack your talents? (Meaning, making some money?)

Zoë

The arm peice is one of those long skinny vaccume attachments. Here is a link to the exact one I used. The pic isint great but you can see the way it curves on the side there which mates perfectly with how it goes over the record. I cut the end off just a little bit and made it square, Then filled it in with some clear silicone on the end part. Then cut a notch down the middle the length of the grooves on a record for the air to go through and then once that was done I got some fine synthetic paint pad type thing that I cut up and glued to the bottom of the arm so it is soft where in touches the record as you vaccume. The suction holds the record to the bottom of the arm so you have to turn it by hand.

http://www.vacuflostore.com/catalog/product_detail.aspx?suom=PC&sfitm=1141-G





Now, the part that I am using to attach the arm to the base is a part of a removable handle you have on a power drill. Heres a pic of one, What I did was unscrewed the handle part of it then bolted it to the base with the same threads the handle scrwed into. I had to wrap some tape around the arm to get it to be the right diameter to cinch down on with the handle. And I just grab it and move it, It needs to be pretty firm or else you will have to hold the arm and try to spin the record at the same time. And thats about it

Thanks, I have thought about a time or two but I really am not all that great at woodworking. I just dont take pictures of the imperfections And even the times I have made something I can be truly happy with I probably couldnt replicate it again. For example the last headphone amp I made for a friend out of a solid peice of African mahogany I ruined three different chassis while drilling out the inside and making the holes for the battery drawers and such before I did one that came out decent.

Nice, Brandon..... very creative and nice-looking solution!

Bought my first two albums in many years...



This Rick Wakeman performance with The London Symphony based on A Journey to the Center of the Earth was an album I enjoyed quite a bit many years ago.



The April Wine was just an album I had in high school. Wasn't exactly up there with my Hendrix and Aerosmith and Zeppelin albums, but I still liked it. For .88¢ it was worth bringing home. The Rick Wakeman was $4.00.

Got my cartridge in yesterday. Shure does a nice job with a custom aluminum case for it. The TT has shipped, but I don't have a tracking number yet. Hopefully, I can get it set up this weekend....that would be fun!

Hope you got a Tracking force gauge too! The Shure SFG-2 is a nice option for I think 25 bucks.

Hey all, I posted my first impressions of the Cowboy Junkies Trinity Sessions Revisited on the other music listening thread. It's only available on CD.

I'm now listening to Van Morrison Live At The Grand Opera House Belfast on vinyl. Really excellent recording. I read about it in Stereophile, but thought it would likely sound best on vinyl. Funny how expensive it's become though. I paid more for the used lp than two copies of the used CD combined. But it's a good copy and likely sounds much better than the CD.

Zoë

April Wine? Mark, are you sure you're not in Canada? I didn't even own that and I'm a Canuck who grew up in that era. Maybe it's just that your hoping Canadian music sound better on Canadian speakers.

Brandon, You're woodworking skills look great on camera! I'm sure that if you started to sell stuff you wouldn't love doing it as much.

Hello all,
Here's a couple of places you guys might want to check out for new & used http://www.lpnow.com/ these are mostly cut-outs, but some new.
Also http://www.musicstack.com/ I got a half-speed master of The Doobies "Captain & Me" from here for 12 bucks. Near mint.

Ciao

I seem to have some very foggy memory of the song "Just Between You and Me" getting some airplay around the time some girl and I broke up. The album had to be purchased so I could listen to the song numorous times.....and then "numorouser" times!

I remember liking some other tracks on there as well, so figured "what the hell"!

Thanks for the links, Mace! I'll have to check them out!

Not yet... though I should have ordered one. I'll get one and a record cleaning kit.

My TT got a "rescheduled delivery" of Monday, likely to the midwest storms....

Thanks for detailed the info on the cleaning device Haoleb. Ingenious use of every day items to make something useful!

Mark,
April Wine still tours the bar scenes up here. Seems they come around about every two years or so. Let me know and I'll reserve you a table and we can burn pictures of your old girlfriend while that song is playing.

LOL.... pitchers of beer?

Not that I ever looked, but I didn't even know Amazon.com had a vinyl section until today:

http://www.amazon.com/b?ie=UTF8&node=372989011

Is there potential damage in shipping LPs?

Let's see do I want a new receiver or turntable? I can only stretch my tax return so far.

Go for the turntable Sean, it will never be outdated.

Which turntables and receivers are you thinking about getting?

LOL!

Oh, how true that is, though. . .

Well, as for the turntable I haven't given it that much thought--I've purposely steered clear of looking at them to stay away from temptation.

For a starting point, i.e. cheap, I've had my eye on this and this. Not that I'm a big fan of red, I just think it'd be cool and different.

If you're going new, you should look at the Technics SL-1200. Built like a tank. They are heirloom turntables. Easy to use, and amazing sounding. I highly recommend them to anyone buying brand new. A friend of mine used to work here. They have good deals on used ones, but you'd really only be saving $100-$130 on it. If you've got a little more to spend, it's worth buying a brand new one. Maybe Mark can share more about his journey to ordering a 1200. And where he ended up buying it.

Zoë

Oh, and go for the Bellari amp. They are really great! I've had their solid state phone preamp which was awesome. I now use a Scott 222C tube amp and a Luxman L210 solid state integrated amp that both have phono stages. I gave the Bellari to a friend - which a 1200! Go figure!

Zoë

Thanks for the links, Zoe. Yeah, when Mark said he was buying the SL-1200 I gave it a look. Visually, it's not that appealing to me, but I guess the important thing I should be looking at is quality and durability.

Darn it, you guys are gonna make me start researching these things now. . .

Okay, I've changed my mind--the SL-1200 doesn't look too bad. Turns out my tube preamp has a phono stage. I'd still like that Bellari, though.

LOL!! Well, they do have a black version too! I like the red of the Music Hall, but I've done some research on it and vinyl lovers don't seem to prefer it. I've got a vintage Dual 1219 that is an amazing sounding idler wheel turntable. I've put a lot of money into it, but if it ever dies I'll be grabbing a 1200 next. A lot of people fix them since they are the DJ standard. That fact comforts me because I had to get 1219 worked on twice and there are only a handful of people who know them well enough to be trusted. You could pretty much find someone who would be able to fix or mod your 1200 almost anywhere. It's the top selling turntable of all times!

OK, I'd better stop or I'll end up buying one soon! And I really don't need another turntable right now. I've got three.


Zoë

Sean, you are all set up! All you need now is the 'table!

Zoe, I've been looking at Beatles LPs on Amazon for the last 15 minutes or so. . .


You know, my birthday is coming up--maybe I can talk someone into getting me a turntable. . .hmmm. . .

Sean, you've been bitten!! Start making that wish list. Beatles on lp are amazing! I listen to Abbey Road every weekend almost. I'm just always amazed at the sound quality. It's recordings like that that made me an audiofool in the first place!

'Nite from a cold NJ/NYC!

Zoë

"Abbey Road" would definitely be one of the first ones I'd get. Come to think of it, my parents still have an old copy of that and Sgt. Pepper, which still has the cut-outs insert in it.

I ordered this one from Musiciansfriend. I was "pushing things" a bit when I switched from an initial plan of spending a total of $250 to wanting to spend $500 for the Technics and a cartridge. So the fact that this was the cheapest of the 1200s, from a dealer I've used many times before, and was on sale with free shipping tipped the scales.

The cartridge from Amazon came a couple of days ago, but the TT is scheduled for delivery today. I'm hoping to get it set up late today, and I'll make it a point to buy a new album for direct comparison to an already-owned CD in the next couple of days!

While considering the set up of the Denon TT I came across the Ortofon-OM-5E-Phono-Cartridge. Does anyone have any other suggestion for a good budget cartridge.

Hey Rick,

These are great for the price.

Zoë

Rick, I've used the OM-5E on an old Denon (though not as nice as yours). It was actually quite good as far as budget ones go. Now I use an OM10 on my Projekt Debut III. I did consider the Shure M97 that Mark suggested from Amazon, but the OM10 was a bit cheaper on ebay. That Shure always gets very good reviews.

The vinyl forum at Audio Asylum was where I found some relevant reviews/feedback for vinyl and tube gear.

http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/etv.mpl?forum=vinyl

Thanks guys, I'll check into each one. Seeing the OM10 is only $20 more did you find it to be a lot better?

Yes, the OM10 is noticeably better than the OM5E. IIRC the only difference between the OM5 and OM5E is that the E designates that it's an OM5 bought in bulk for TT vendors. But it's the same part.

TT arrived!

Damn, that box is a lot heavier than I remember my old Pioneer being! I'll open it all up after it warms up a bit.....

I think you meant to say *after* the camera is ready for a photo shoot ... right Mark?


Congrats ... Dude!

Don't you mean "It'll open up after it warms up a bit"?

Gotta shake the cobwebs out of the stylus and get all your harmonics aligned, right?

Congrats Mark! Can't wait to hear about your first spin. Hopefully it's something worthier than April Wine. ;-p

Zoë

Hello:

Long time lurker, first time poster. I thought I'd post a few links that may be helpful for those looking to get back into vinyl. Both http://www.musicdirect.com and http://www.acousticsounds.com have great, diverse catalogs of new vinyl. Just searching through their online inventories will give you a good idea of how much new vinyl is still being pressed and is readily available (although some of it is very expensive). I've bought records from both sites and would recommend either one; the records were packed very carefully so as to avoid damage during shipping.

Another great site for modern turntable recommendations is http://www.soundadviceblog.com The site operator, Don Lindich, writes a weekly audio newspaper column that appears throughout the US. If you scroll down the page, you'll see a column on the right side that says "Vinyl Record". This contains all of his past columns on vinyl record playback. Here you will find much practical, entry level turntable information as well as explanations on what to look for in a vinyl system. It's written with the average consumer in mind, so you won't get bogged down in $2,000 to $3,000 turntable recommendations. I think the entry level table he recommends is the Pro-Ject Debut III for $299.

On a side note, Don Lindich appears to be a big fan of Axiom speakers. The entire Axiom line is listed on his website under "recommend speakers" and if you check the homepage right now you'll see a long write up on the Axiom Audiobyte computer speakers.

Hope this helps,
William

Great first post, William! Thanks for the links and info.

Welcome William! Thanks for the links! Nice piece on Don Lindich's site about Axiom and AudioBytes.

I'm lucky enough to live in a city where I can find brand new and used vinyl in real record stores. Remember those? But a site I'm a regular at is Gemm.com, which is like one big record store made up of thousands of smaller stores around the world. The prices are usually pretty good, but beware of hidden Gemm fees.

Zoë

Mark? Are you working on some photos of your 1210 for us? Or maybe a 3000 word review? OK, you're probably just busy listening to vinyl! Enjoy!

Zoë

Well I finally broke out the old Denon to give it a test drive. I really didn't know if the cartridge that is in it now was any good or not but I set it up anyway just to see what was what. When I got the TT I was told that the cartridge that was on it was going to be replaced by the original owner so my friend wasn't sure if it was operable or not, well it seems to be just fine.

The wife and I sat here and went through my entire LP collection this evening. That consists of Chicago's self titled 2 record set and Montrose Jump on It . It was quite an enjoyable experience I must say. The wife even commented on how good it was sounding . I do think the cartridge will be getting replaced and I will be in the market for a decent phono preamp as I just ordered a tube based preamp and it does not come with a phono stage like the Rotel pre. All in all I think trying out the table was real fun and I will find it a permanent spot in the rack once I get some new audio video furniture.

Congrats Rick! Sounds like you found a hidden gem hidden in your closet. And having the wife's approval is a bonus. But, women do have better hearing than men, so her comments regarding the sound of vinyl need to be heeded.

Now get out there and work on that record collection! Spring is coming (although the dump we got last night makes me feel like it will take longer to arrive this year). Plan on hitting some yard sales. Best place to find vinyl at good prices!

Enjoy!

Zoë

I know this is a dumb question but I have not played with turn tables since I was young enough not to care how they worked.

How does the phono amplification thing work. If you have a phono in jack on your receiver, I would have assumed it will do all the needed amplification. However, I see "phono pre-amp" mentioned a lot. Is this because some amps don't have phono capability or because the signal from the cartridge is actually pretty weak for input into amps that might have a phono jack but are not good at receiving the weaker signal.

Sorry but this older technology is like brand new technology to me.

Alot of newer equipment doesnt come with a phono preamp built in which is why you hear talk of seperate ones. Also on alot of equipment there is only one phono input, and no switch for MM or MC, And even though it will basically work fine there is a difference.

The reason why you cant plug a turntable into a cd input for example is because the output of a cart is much lower than a cd player and there is also RIAA equalization that is done to sortof re balance the sound coming off the record. This eqalization is done when a record is made too so its kinda like reversing what was done when the record was first made.

Now I need some suggestions for a good bang for the buck phono preamps.

There's always the Bellari VP129 - Tube Phono Preamplifier, though I've never seen it much less than $250.

Rat shack might have one.

Check musicdirect.com, they have a bunch.

Hey Rick,

The Bellari phone preamps are great - both solid state and tube. There are others out there, but these are a good start. Good luck!

Zoë

I found this one that seems to have pretty good specs and not very expensive. There is a ton of these out there ranging from very little to thousands of dollars. I would like to keep it to around $100 or less. I am going to get the Ortofon OM 10 so I won't need MC capabilities.

Rick, I have one of the TC-750s and it works just fine.

Thanks Jack, It's good to hear about first hand experiences with this stuff. Especially one that I trust.

You can pick up a NAD PP1 or PP2 for relatively cheap.

Hey all! I just wanted to post that I just ordered some Glenn Gould on vinyl. Yahoo! Can't wait to spin them.

Yesterday I listened to some vinyl, and came to conclusion that I am going to use my Scott 222C as a dedicated vinyl amp. Tubes and vinyl seem made for each other sonically - they are warm, almost three-dimensional. But when I listen to CDs on it I'm not as impressed. The bass gets muddy, the high highs are really harsh. None of this is the same with vinyl - I've played the same record on both and come to this conclusion. It could be the Scott, but it's a very nice sounding amp otherwise. Or maybe it's my ears. All I know is that this seems to work for me.

Cheers!

Zoë

Where has Mark been on this thread? Hey Mark anyone home?