Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Advice from Axiom Owners Another sub question....

OK, I've been meaning to ask this for awhile, but I feel, out of courtesy to our hosts, a little hesitant to ask.

Most know my background situation. In short, a small, square 13' x 13' room. Enormous swings seat-to-seat in bass response. Room treatments that would reduce peaks and nulls appreciably would take up a third of the cubic feet available, so no dice.

I've never been terribly happy with my 350V2. I don't blame the sub, I blame the room.

We're planning on replacing our furniture in the not-too-distant future. Currently:



We're thinking that instead of a sectional, we'll have a separate couch and loveseat in there with an end table in each corner. I'm thinking that I will build the end tables myself, to allow for a sub to fit under each. Hopefully, the dual subs will help even things out and provide for some "oomph" (chest thumping). I'm not getting that now. I like base Bass.

I don't need huge levels of output if I have two subs in a small room; I'd rather see deeper frequency response and "musicality"… though I've never really heard the difference between a musical sub and one that's tone deaf. Performance with movies is probably more of an issue than music.

Two HSU VTF-2 MK3s would cost $1104 shipped. They're rated to 18Hz, but there's no +/- so I have no idea how meaningful that is. They're available in Maple, and from a distance, might match up with the Beech Axioms OK.

Two Outlaw LFM-1 Plus subs would be $1257 shipped because they offer a special price on two. Rated to 16Hz, +/- 2 dB. Black only.

Two Axiom EP350V3s would cost $1364 shipped (Factory Outlet). Response is rated to 28Hz, +/- 3 dB. Matching Beech is available & supports one of my favorite companies!

I keep looking at Outlaw because of the low response.

Two 400s or 500s would be tempting, but really priced higher than what I'm looking to spend and serious overkill for my small room.. Color matching might not be an issue if I "build an end table around it". It's hard to ignore the recent favorable reviews of the 350V3.

Any thoughts from you sub gurus?

Edit:
PMs are cool....

You have a lot to think about Mark. I'm not 100% sure the specs on the 350v3 are totally accurate. They are the same as the previous 350, and I don't think Axiom has completed any new anechoic tests yet. Also, "in-room" it is rated at 18hz, which is more realistic for real world situations outside the chamber.

I can tell you from my initial tests, this new 350 is light years ahead of the original 350, they continue to impress me with low gut wrenching LFE.

Mark, that is awesome that you're trying to fix your room problems. I'm currently running three subs and they do a great job of evening out the response (I've measured with my SPL).

Hmm, I'm thinking if you put the two subs in corners you're not getting the true benefit of multiple subs--they will both reinforce or not play certain frequencies. I had better luck with midwall or thirds on each wall. Easier said than done, though because you have furniture to fit in. And in a small room there is just not that many placement options.

As for which subs to get, hoo boy, that's a tough one. Because it seems to be the new hot item I'd be inclined to try the new Axiom 350.

On the other hand, Hsu and Outlaw are great subs too. I have a Hsu VTF3 mkII in maple and I love it. The maple is a fair tonal match to the Mansfield Beech. I don't have any pictures of my old M40s and Hsu together to give you a comparison. My sub sits out in the open and the lighter color is excellent and seems less obtrusive.

I'd say the low end response between the Hsu and Outlaw is negligible. I believe Mike (mdrew) has an Outlaw sub. You might send him a PM and ask him about it. From what I remember he really likes it.

Wasn't the Outlaw designed by Dr. Hsu? I have a very similar room so I am looking forward to your results.

I haven't heard the other 2 but the Ep350v3 will give that added bass you are missing from the V2 and you would probably only need 1, the v2 is anemic compared to the v3. I have heard an ST3 and it was pretty good and for a room of your size would also work great, but the v3 I think is a smoother sounding sub.

The Outlaws, as far as I know, are pretty much re-cabinets of Hsu subs--the STF series, I believe.

Also, wouldn't you get a trade-in bump on the Axioms?

You can believe the Hsu sub will go down to at least the advertised specs. My STF 3 was advertised to be tuned to 25hz and it has very strong out put at 20hz. Dr. Hsu has always rated his products very conservative.

The Outlaw Plus series are more like the Hsu VTF subs.

My theory is that Axiom doesn't want to publish the true specs for the 350v3 because they are too close to the DSP-based subs. The 350v3 may lack frequency response linerity compared to the DSP subs but I really don't think your ears care about that so much when it comes to bass. And a hump here or there may actually be more pleasing to our human ears.

What the 350v3 lacks in linearity, it makes up with its better transient response compared to the DSP subs. Or at least it sounds to me like the transient response is better because I hear attacks and it sounds "tighter".

From all of the different subs I've heard in my 4,000 cubic foot room, the 350v3 sounds the best and is excellent value for the money.

I will vouch that the 350v3's are amazing. I need to do more testing, but at this point for the money they are a great deal, especially from the FO.

I love the conspiracy theory idea.

Hopefully someone local will buy a v3 someday and we can test it against my v1.
Someday soon pickupmykeys and i will be getting together to compare the EP350 and EP500.