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Advice for a new owner and a newbie to HT
#200587 03/16/08 08:48 PM
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Greetings All,

I just bought (literally, 5 minutes ago) an Epic 80 / 500 setup. They are going to be delivered before next weekend, I'm almost shaking in anticipation. Hopefully once I get that EP500 I'll still be shaking...but from the bass!

Anyway, most of what brought me to Axiom was the customer service and how helpful everyone seems in these forums. I wanted to introduce myself as a new owner and someone who is new to HT and I had a few questions I hope you could help me with.

I ordered a Denon 3808CI which will also arrive around the same time. With the larger M80s some people have said that I should use a separate amp and pre/pro. Given the Denon I purchased, will I be ok? Being sort of a newbie, will I really be able to hear the difference in having separates?

Due to my current room setup (which will be changing soon) I am not able to mount the QS8's to the side of the main listening area. My couch is up against the rear wall and I only have a wall adjacent to the rear wall on one side due to my living room opening up into the dining room. My question is will I be OK mounting the QS8's on the back wall on either side of the couch? Also, what height should I mount them?

Have people had better experience with the center 150 being positioned below or above the screen?

Thanks so much in advance and I am looking forward to a long relationship with Axiom and these forums!

Feel free to PM if that is easier.

Greg


M80s, EP150, QS8s, EP500, Denon 3808, PS3, Optoma EP1690

Patience is a virtue that can hurt you
Re: Advice for a new owner and a newbie to HT
Megnaro #200589 03/16/08 09:08 PM
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Greg,

Welcome and congrats on your purchase. That's a very nice setup and your 3808CI will have no problems driving your system louder than you will probably ever listen, having used separates before there is a slight difference in sound to my ears but not earth shattering, I think you will be very happy with what the 3808CI will do as I have heard and read nothing but great things about it.

The Qs8's should be fine on the sides of the couch and can be mounted anywhere from ear level up.

As far as the VP150 both options are fine, I use mine below the screen with at a slight upwards angle.


A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kick boxing.
Re: Advice for a new owner and a newbie to HT
Megnaro #200590 03/16/08 09:09 PM
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You'll be just fine. If you're not, you can always add an amp later. The rear mount should be ok as well. I'd mount them pretty high up, at least 6-7 ft.


I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!
Re: Advice for a new owner and a newbie to HT
Ken.C #200591 03/16/08 10:21 PM
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Your setup sounds the same as mine. I bought an epic 80/500 setup and a denon 3808 for my first ht purchase back in november. MY couch is also against the rear wall.

See the pics in this thread:
http://www.axiomaudio.com/boards/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=189940&fpart=1

My QS8's sound fine on the back wall- and my couch is only a few inches from the back wall.

You will have no problem with the denon 3808 and those speakers.

oh yeah, my QS8's are a little less than 6' from the ground


-David
Re: Advice for a new owner and a newbie to HT
Ken.C #200592 03/16/08 10:24 PM
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Welcome. I have the same set up 80/500 with a Denon 3808. works great. Once you learn the GUI on the Denon, you'll be good to go. As for mounting heights, all the experts will say the same height as you ears ( when sitting down ), but I have my QS8's mounted at 6.5 ft and they sound fine. Personally, I think you could get away with anywhere from 3-7 ft and be fine. As for the Center Channel, you could go above or below your screen. I have mine mounted below using the Axiom CC 18" mount. Kinda expensive for what it is, but the mounting holes match up perfect and it's very sturdy if you have kids.

Enjoy!
JD

Re: Advice for a new owner and a newbie to HT
jfdawson #200594 03/16/08 10:54 PM
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One more with pretty much the same as you(M80s, VP150, QS8s, 3808CI) and unless you are willing to go to seperates that have over 200W/ch you won't notice much of a difference, IMO. I would try the QS8s at varying heights as I think you are even more enveloped in sound if they are about 2 ft above your head while seated. I have mine a few inches down from an 8' ceiling and it still sounds great, but I would prefer them lower but am unable to as my kids play in the same room. I have one directly above one sitting position and I never miss anything from it. I have my center mounted a few inches below the ceiling as well and it sounds very centered on the screen.


Jason
M80 v2
VP160 v3
QS8 v2
PB13 Ultra
Denon 3808
Samsung 85" Q70
Re: Advice for a new owner and a newbie to HT
jakewash #200601 03/16/08 11:19 PM
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Thank you all for the advice. I can't wait to get the Denon and the speakers in the mail towards the end of this coming week. They will come just in time for the weekend...guess I better cancel all my plans as I will probably be tweaking and enjoying all weekend long. I already warned my boss I might have a bad case of the flu coming Monday morning!!!

When I have it all set up I will post pics.

Any opinions on Boston Cherry vs. the High Gloss Cherry? I was leaning towards the HG, but didn't want to wait the full 4 weeks for them to be built. I hope I didn't make too big of a mistake. Patience is a virtue...that can hurt you let it be!

Thanks again!

Greg


M80s, EP150, QS8s, EP500, Denon 3808, PS3, Optoma EP1690

Patience is a virtue that can hurt you
Re: Advice for a new owner and a newbie to HT
Megnaro #200602 03/16/08 11:21 PM
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Welcome, the helpfulness of Axiom’s staff and the minimal amount of sniping by members of this forum also convinced me Axiom was going to be a quality product. I also think you’ll be fine with the Denon 3808CI, since my Denon 2807 plays more than loud enough.

Since your going to be sitting so close to your QS8s I also suggest you mount them up around 6-7 feet. Having them to close to your ears might make them sound more directional and less enveloping. You could try moving them lower later if your new room allows.

Your center should sound fine either way. A couple things you might think about. If you’re sitting very close to the front make sure if you put it below that you don’t have anything blocking it like a coffee table or your feet if reclining. Also, the closer you sit the more important I think it becomes to get the VP150 near the same level as the tweeters on the M80s. Not critical but does help them blend better.


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Re: Advice for a new owner and a newbie to HT
grunt #200607 03/16/08 11:33 PM
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Anyone I know or has commented on the board, HG was the way to go. It is a truly beautiful finish.


Jason
M80 v2
VP160 v3
QS8 v2
PB13 Ultra
Denon 3808
Samsung 85" Q70
Re: Advice for a new owner and a newbie to HT
jakewash #200611 03/16/08 11:53 PM
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I have alos heard that fingerprints/ect. are harder to keep off of the speakers.

I think you will be happy with what you got though. I got the standard black and it looks great to me. I would love to piano gloss black but too much $$$ for me


-David
Re: Advice for a new owner and a newbie to HT
jakewash #200612 03/16/08 11:58 PM
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I wouldn't have gone for the HG! Those people are all delusional!
Don't give up four weeks of sonic joy just for a pretty (and hard to maintain) finish. We want Speakers NOW!
Remember you could be hit by a bus next week, never having known the sweet caress of M80 sound waves washing over you.




M80s/VP160/QS8s/EP350; M22s; M3s.
Re: Advice for a new owner and a newbie to HT
jakewash #200613 03/17/08 12:08 AM
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Er... Not everyone. There were many, including myself, who have posted they prefered speakers that don't shine! They (we) were a minority (at least less outspoken), but we nonetheless exist! \:\)


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Re: Advice for a new owner and a newbie to HT
EFalardeau #200614 03/17/08 12:27 AM
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Sorry Eric, I didn't hear you, what was that?;\)


Jason
M80 v2
VP160 v3
QS8 v2
PB13 Ultra
Denon 3808
Samsung 85" Q70
Re: Advice for a new owner and a newbie to HT
jakewash #200615 03/17/08 12:30 AM
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Just Low Glossip... \:\)


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Re: Advice for a new owner and a newbie to HT
EFalardeau #200617 03/17/08 12:47 AM
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Actually Eric you brought up a good point HG might not be the best thing for an HT environment as the reflections could prove distracting while watching a movie.


Jason
M80 v2
VP160 v3
QS8 v2
PB13 Ultra
Denon 3808
Samsung 85" Q70
Re: Advice for a new owner and a newbie to HT
jakewash #200623 03/17/08 01:11 AM
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I know the rule that the better the input the better the output, and that MP3's as a format cut out a lot of the quality. From my understanding, the reason they get away with it is because the average listeners audio equipment and ear aren't really good enough to tell the difference. With this new Axiom setup I am hoping the difference between an MP3 and an actual CD of a track will be significantly different.

That being said, I do have an extensive MP3 collection and a media PC hooked up to the HT that networks around 60 GB of MP3's from my main PC. Will the Axioms give me a noticeable increase in aural quality in MP3 format?

How much does the bitrate of the MP3 effect these results assuming it's 128+ ?


M80s, EP150, QS8s, EP500, Denon 3808, PS3, Optoma EP1690

Patience is a virtue that can hurt you
Re: Advice for a new owner and a newbie to HT
jakewash #200625 03/17/08 01:16 AM
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Your Denon will be just find, assuming you don't have a room bigger than mine, 8,000 cu ft, and listen at insane levels. \:\)

The Q's are very forgiving and will work great to the sides of your couch. If possible have them about ear level or higher when seated, this way the back tweeter will bounce off the rear wall and give you that enveloping sound.

You mention a screen, so I can only assume you have a projector. If so, I have my vp150 mounted right below the screen on a shelf bracket. I put some felt pads near the front to help angle it up a bit. Ideally, you want the tweeters on the center at the same height as the left/right speakers tweeters, but this is not always possible.

To answer your question about HG versus regular Boston Cherry, both are great finishes. Diehard HT folks with screen/projector environments don't want any distractions when watching a movie. Why do you think most of us paint our front/side walls a darker flat colors. The projector will reflect light on the walls, ceiling, etc. The last thing you want is your speakers reflecting/glaring light from your projector.

My first 7.1 setup was mansfield beech vinyl, not even HG, and it was distracting to me. I want to be zoned on the movie and see nothing else, but hear the awesome sounds of the Axiom speakers.

So, for me I would not want HG in a darkened HT Screen/Projector environment. Most of my buddies on the AVSforum Projector threads would agree.


M80s VP180 4xM22ow 4xM3ic EP600 2xEP350
AnthemAVM60 Outlaw7700 EmoA500 Epson5040UB FluanceRT85


Re: Advice for a new owner and a newbie to HT
SirQuack #200626 03/17/08 01:18 AM
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Wrong thread Megnaro? \:\)


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AnthemAVM60 Outlaw7700 EmoA500 Epson5040UB FluanceRT85


Re: Advice for a new owner and a newbie to HT
Megnaro #200636 03/17/08 02:25 AM
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 Originally Posted By: Megnaro
Will the Axioms give me a noticeable increase in aural quality in MP3 format?

How much does the bitrate of the MP3 effect these results assuming it's 128+ ?



You may notice the MP3s on the M3s not sounding as good as you think, they are a forgiving speaker but when some of that information is removed it can be noticeable on better speakers.

The higher the bit rate the better they sound. I have found 128+ sounds like FM radio to me, somewhat flat, loses the dynamics a little, but can be enjoyed none the less.


Jason
M80 v2
VP160 v3
QS8 v2
PB13 Ultra
Denon 3808
Samsung 85" Q70
Re: Advice for a new owner and a newbie to HT
Megnaro #200637 03/17/08 02:29 AM
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Greg, another welcome. Your 3808 should be excellent with your setup and have more than enough maximum power capacity unless your use pattern is very unusual. The question isn't whether you'd be able to hear "the" difference with separates, but rather if there'd be "a" difference to be heard. Despite frequent attempts that we read to ignore the way that amplifiers work, unless you'd exceed the maximum power capabilities of the 3808(highly unlikely), it will supply transparent amplification that can't be audibly improved.


-----------------------------------

Enjoy the music, not the equipment.


Re: Advice for a new owner and a newbie to HT
JohnK #200650 03/17/08 03:26 AM
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The denon 38089 has a nifty "restore" feature that can help out some of the low quality mp3's. There are 3 dif settings... I don't know exactly what it does but I use it with internet radio often and it seems to help a little.


-David
Re: Advice for a new owner and a newbie to HT
terzaghi #200653 03/17/08 03:34 AM
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The restore feature boosts the low and high frequencies according to the manual. It also has varying degrees according to the bit rate but that is set up in the menu and not automatic. I usually have it on the highest setting.


Jason
M80 v2
VP160 v3
QS8 v2
PB13 Ultra
Denon 3808
Samsung 85" Q70
Re: Advice for a new owner and a newbie to HT
jakewash #200654 03/17/08 03:41 AM
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Cool, I had guessed that it boosted the low frequencies b/c I could hear more 'oomph' on the low end. Nice too know it boosts the higher frequencies too. I guess the boost in the low end is what makes it sound 'fuller' and the boost in the high end is what makes it sound more 'crisp'. Anyway- it seems to be fairly helpful at times.

One thing I hate is when I turn on restore for my internet radio, then switch to a streaming flac file... I always forget to turn it off and play my flac files with the restore enabled.

Another thing I wish you could do when streaming music is to click in the middle button on the remote and adjust the sub volume up or down like you can with any other source. I guess they thought you don't need to adjust channel levels when listening to net/usb?!?!?!?


-David
Re: Advice for a new owner and a newbie to HT
JohnK #200671 03/17/08 11:42 AM
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Welcome and congrats on your new spekers and reciever, look forward to your pics.


Dave
Re: Advice for a new owner and a newbie to HT
DaveG #200730 03/17/08 06:25 PM
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Do these bad boys come with instructions for "breaking them in"? I've never had speakers that required that before, but it's been mentioned. If they don't come with those instructions...how do I do it?


M80s, EP150, QS8s, EP500, Denon 3808, PS3, Optoma EP1690

Patience is a virtue that can hurt you
Re: Advice for a new owner and a newbie to HT
Megnaro #200732 03/17/08 06:27 PM
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Speakers don't require a breakin period, just turn them on and enjoy. Any breakin is done at the factory and takes a few seconds if that...


M80s VP180 4xM22ow 4xM3ic EP600 2xEP350
AnthemAVM60 Outlaw7700 EmoA500 Epson5040UB FluanceRT85


Re: Advice for a new owner and a newbie to HT
SirQuack #200733 03/17/08 06:29 PM
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Hmm...my friend got some B&W's and they told him he had to leave them on with low volume for 18 hours or something before he could listen to them for real. Odd...


M80s, EP150, QS8s, EP500, Denon 3808, PS3, Optoma EP1690

Patience is a virtue that can hurt you
Re: Advice for a new owner and a newbie to HT
Megnaro #200734 03/17/08 06:32 PM
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Nothing odd just marketing voodoo, no break in required


Rick


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Re: Advice for a new owner and a newbie to HT
Wid #200735 03/17/08 06:33 PM
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No break-in for the speakers, but it is a good idea to listen for a few hours to let your ears adjust before starting tweaking a lot.


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Re: Advice for a new owner and a newbie to HT
EFalardeau #200736 03/17/08 06:38 PM
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I have a friend that sells B&W locally, and he also says there is not much truth to it if any. Many amp companies have the same claims, not sure. I think now that I've had my Odyssey mono's for some time, and do think the sound stage has opened up and sounds better.


M80s VP180 4xM22ow 4xM3ic EP600 2xEP350
AnthemAVM60 Outlaw7700 EmoA500 Epson5040UB FluanceRT85


Re: Advice for a new owner and a newbie to HT
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It just gives your ears a chance to become accustomed to the new sound of the speakers in question. Once you get used to them, you are able to get past how different they sound compared to your old speakers and start listening to them with out bias.

As I mentioned in earlier posts on the subject and Alan more or less agreed, break-in suggests as the speaker wears it sounds better.

If a speaker shows enough audible wear, in that short time frame manufacturers suggest, they should be sounding terrible after a few years of use due to even more wear and tear.


Jason
M80 v2
VP160 v3
QS8 v2
PB13 Ultra
Denon 3808
Samsung 85" Q70
Re: Advice for a new owner and a newbie to HT
jakewash #200738 03/17/08 06:41 PM
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Thanks guys. I can't wait! This weekend is going to be all tweaking and setting up and enjoying! Now I just need that 1080p projector and I'll be all set! (Like anyone is ever all set :P)


M80s, EP150, QS8s, EP500, Denon 3808, PS3, Optoma EP1690

Patience is a virtue that can hurt you
Re: Advice for a new owner and a newbie to HT
Megnaro #200830 03/18/08 03:43 AM
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On the HG cherry, I realize that your decision has already been made, but for others considering the same, I have a full HG Cherry set (M80, VP150, 4 QS8s) in my home theater and just ordered an EP600 to go with the rest...

I have a ceiling mounted Epson projector and the only reflection problems I have are when the lights are on or drapes are open. In the dark, there is no light reflected onto the screen, though now that Randy and others mention it, I notice that the light from the screen does reflect onto the speakers.

I've only had the setup for about a week and it hasn't bothered me at all... In fact, I didn't even notice it until reading this thread... Even looking at it now after having it called out, I can't say it bothers me. Alternatively, in the light they look absolutely beautiful, so I suppose like anything it comes down to personal preference.

I can tell you with 100% certainty that the wait is unbearable though!


Epic 80-800: HG Cherry
Re: Advice for a new owner and a newbie to HT
SirQuack #200834 03/18/08 03:52 AM
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 Quote:
I think now that I've had my Odyssey mono's for some time, and do think the sound stage has opened up and sounds better.

Like rats navigating a maze, the electrons get accustomed to the circuit topology and navigate it more quickly as time goes on.










(This statement is false.)

Last edited by pmbuko; 03/18/08 03:53 AM.
Re: Advice for a new owner and a newbie to HT
pmbuko #200871 03/18/08 12:59 PM
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The Denon is in the mail! DHL says it will come tomorrow. I suppose I can't justify taking a day off of work just to sit around at home waiting for it can I? Maybe for the Axioms though...

I bet this Denon is even going to make my 30 year old "Technics" speakers sound better.

Axiom said I should get the email today with the shipping info. I should probably pre-warn the neighbors...an Epic 80/500 in an apartment is probably overkill \:\)


M80s, EP150, QS8s, EP500, Denon 3808, PS3, Optoma EP1690

Patience is a virtue that can hurt you
Re: Advice for a new owner and a newbie to HT
Megnaro #200873 03/18/08 01:02 PM
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you are going to have to keep the 500 on a VERY LOW setting!


-David
Re: Advice for a new owner and a newbie to HT
terzaghi #200874 03/18/08 01:08 PM
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Or just give the neighbors a standing invitation to come over and watch with you whenever they hear it on. ;\)


Epic 80-800: HG Cherry
Re: Advice for a new owner and a newbie to HT
myrison #200877 03/18/08 01:13 PM
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I had a JVC boombox in my apartment and it was fairly loud and bassy at times. I gave the neighbor girl my phone number and just had her call me anytime that I Was playing my music loud and she was trying to sleep or something.

Most of the time my other neighbors were louder than I was so it wasn't a problem...

Of course this was a college town so it was to be expected.


-David
Re: Advice for a new owner and a newbie to HT
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There are 12 units in my building on 3 floors. I am on the top floor and the unit across from me is vacant. There is a guy adjacent to me that shared the wall the sub will be up against, but he is about 28-30 years old and seems to never be home. What I'm really worried about is the creepy old guy that lives below me. He and the EP500 I'm sure will get well acquainted.

I think inviting the neighbors is a good idea...but there is a part of me that doesn't want anyone to know I have a setup that is this expensive. I don't trust too easily...


M80s, EP150, QS8s, EP500, Denon 3808, PS3, Optoma EP1690

Patience is a virtue that can hurt you
Re: Advice for a new owner and a newbie to HT
Megnaro #200882 03/18/08 02:02 PM
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oh buddy. You've not heard bass like you're about to experience with that ep500 sub. I live in a 2 story house with a dedicated Media room that is "sound insullated" and that Denon with the 80/500 and a BluRay like Pearl Harbor or any of the cartoon movies like Cars, it will flat out ROCK the entire house and sound like there is a freakin train rumbling on. I've even stepped outside to see if I can hear it and it's noticeable standing in the front yard. Don't get me wrong, it's an awesome set up, but your probably going to have to keep it way below it's potential to keep from getting a noise ordinance ticket. You're neighbors are going to hate you.... \:\)

Re: Advice for a new owner and a newbie to HT
Megnaro #200883 03/18/08 02:09 PM
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You can DEFINITELY justify taking a day off for the speakers. Otherwise you'll be unproductive anyway and can even get sick with anticipation. I should promise a day off to any of my employees buying a full system! \:\) [provided they make up for it by working during the holidays, of course!]


See Mojo's signature
Re: Advice for a new owner and a newbie to HT
EFalardeau #200886 03/18/08 02:42 PM
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Dare I watch all 3 extended editions of LOTR? Perhaps all 6 eps of Star Wars? I think the run time on those are actually about the same \:\)

The next step is a 1080p projector. I currently have an Optoma EP1690 which was nice at the time...but it has no HDMI and no 1080p, just 1080i and 720p \:\( Any recommendations?

Ha, and I guess after that I need a house...with a huge basement for an amazing home theater / bar!

Growing up is expensive!


M80s, EP150, QS8s, EP500, Denon 3808, PS3, Optoma EP1690

Patience is a virtue that can hurt you
Re: Advice for a new owner and a newbie to HT
Megnaro #200905 03/18/08 06:20 PM
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Alright...you guys have all been awesome here. My old entertainment system is an ancient pair of mains, a crappy matching receiver with a separate EQ to go with them, my projector, and my media PC.

I am now realizing that my media PC may not be giving me the fullest potential for HT because to my knowledge it doesn't do SACD or Blu-Ray. Does anyone know if there is a way to send my signal from DVI out on my PC's vid card to the denon 3808 and out to the projector (non-HDMI) where the denon will upconvert video to 720p or 1080i at least?

Will an optical drive in a PC play SACD?

Thanks!


M80s, EP150, QS8s, EP500, Denon 3808, PS3, Optoma EP1690

Patience is a virtue that can hurt you
Re: Advice for a new owner and a newbie to HT
jfdawson #200907 03/18/08 06:54 PM
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 Originally Posted By: jfdawson
oh buddy. You've not heard bass like you're about to experience with that ep500 sub.
You don't know how excited that makes me to imagine what the EP600 is going to be like that I've got on order...


Epic 80-800: HG Cherry
Re: Advice for a new owner and a newbie to HT
Megnaro #200909 03/18/08 06:58 PM
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 Originally Posted By: Megnaro

I am now realizing that my media PC may not be giving me the fullest potential for HT because to my knowledge it doesn't do SACD or Blu-Ray. Does anyone know if there is a way to send my signal from DVI out on my PC's vid card to the denon 3808 and out to the projector (non-HDMI) where the denon will upconvert video to 720p or 1080i at least?

Will an optical drive in a PC play SACD?

Thanks!

Pretty sure you can try a DVI to HDMI cable adapter to pass the signal to the Denon in a format it can work with. I haven't tested it myself, but I have done it the other way, passing HDMI to DVI through a cable like this to connect to a TV that only had DVI.

On your projector question, use the google search of this forum:
Axiom Google Search to look up the Epson 1080UB. Lots of old forums have talked about this and competing projectors. Those discussions are all relatively recent and should provide good background info. (Once you research and have questions, you might want to start a new thread just about the projectors... you might get more visibility with a thread directly related to that topic).


Epic 80-800: HG Cherry
Re: Advice for a new owner and a newbie to HT
Megnaro #200910 03/18/08 06:58 PM
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There are DVi to HDMI adapters/cables, so all you need to do is get a HDMI/DVI cable and run that to the Denon. I would guess you are already running in a higher display mode on your PC then on your TV so depending on the display settings there may be some adjustments required there.

I am unaware of any PC optical drives that will read SACD, but there are BR players out there for a couple hundred.


Jason
M80 v2
VP160 v3
QS8 v2
PB13 Ultra
Denon 3808
Samsung 85" Q70
Re: Advice for a new owner and a newbie to HT
terzaghi #200912 03/18/08 07:01 PM
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 Originally Posted By: terzaghi
I gave the neighbor girl my phone number and just had her call me anytime that I Was playing my music loud

Damn...to be young and single. I'd be crankin' that boombox all the time! \:\)

"Hello? Oh....Hey. Really? I'm sorry! I guess I forget how loud it gets sometimes. Can I buy you a cup of coffee to make it up to you?"


::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::
Re: Advice for a new owner and a newbie to HT
MarkSJohnson #200954 03/19/08 03:29 AM
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Ha ha, smooth.

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